Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[UncertainKitten]

I'd be comfortable punishing him for a mistaken guilty under these circumstances.

Even if his guilty can be verified?

[Iecerint]

What do you mean by that? If he's correct and Vaya is scum, there's clearly no reason to punish him.

[Iecerint]

Should add that I've never been in a game with a non-sane Cop. Is it common that they're led to believe their results are 99% certain? I'm assuming not, because you and Faraday used the wording of his claim to infer his sanity.

[UncertainKitten]

What do you mean by that? If he's correct and Vaya is scum, there's clearly no reason to punish him.

Rather, his guilty can be verified, without losing either of them. I expect to get more of a net gain out of my strategy than we would by killing Vaya.

Also, unrelated, but I'd like to point out there is a possibility of a scum cop, either with Faraday or SSK. So don't assume either is confirmed.

[UncertainKitten]

Should add that I've never been in a game with a non-sane Cop. Is it common that they're led to believe their results are 99% certain? I'm assuming not, because you and Faraday used the wording of his claim to infer his sanity.

Generally the way I phrase cops in general is that they get a result of guilty or innocent, and when I tell them their results it's put as "you conclude that Playername is Guilty/Innocent"

note the use of "you conclude"

[Glork]

My cop role PMs say something along the lines of "Once per night, you may attempt to discern the alignment of another player." That attempt may or may not be accurate, so it's up to the Cop to determine their own sanity.

[Iecerint]

If a Cop gives information directly leading to dead scum, I am willing to confirm that player barring extraordinary evidence to the contrary.

It's difficult for me to imagine how the verification process would work. The simplest explanation (NB: No need to confirm obvs) is that you're a third Cop (lolirl) and are going to use Vaya to test your sanity. But 1) 3 is a big number and 2) that seems like a waste of your ability, anyway.

Basically, you have a big mystery ability that you are asking me to trust in a game where abilities are (as I understand it) deliberately misleading. And you briefly even chose to abandon your plan. And this is a mini, anyway, so it's not as if we can afford to put-off Cop results by a day in general.

I'd like to hear how SSK feels about this, though. He's in a better position to judge

[Iecerint]

Should add that I have reason to believe that sanity issues would probably be implicit in SSK's PM. But I can't say for sure.

[UncertainKitten]

Basically, you have a big mystery ability that you are asking me to trust in a game where abilities are (as I understand it) deliberately misleading. And you briefly even chose to abandon your plan. And this is a mini, anyway, so it's not as if we can afford to put-off Cop results by a day in general.

Well, first, SSK isn't confirmed as a cop, that's just been the easiest way to put it. Second, I have reason to believe that my results should be at least somewhat trustworthy. Thirdly, I did briefly abandon my plan because I figured things had become obvious and we wouldn't have to spend a night wasting time.

I think we can handle waiting because the benefits can be effectively just as good as a cop investigation.

[Iecerint]

Cop

Investigation results.

Is your ability useless if we lynch Vaya, or does Vaya's being alive just provide an obvious use for it? Don't answer if it isn't proper to, etc.

Thinking upon my reason for thinking sanity would be implicit in SSK's PM and your new information that sanity is implicit in yours (not to mention SSK's 99% number), I am reasonably confident that sanity would be implicit in his message. [/outguess]

[UncertainKitten]

Is your ability useless if we lynch Vaya, or does Vaya's being alive just provide an obvious use for it? Don't answer if it isn't proper to, etc.

Hmmm...not...USELESS, but would have a very diminished current benefit.

Thinking upon my reason for thinking sanity would be implicit in SSK's PM and your new information that sanity is implicit in yours (not to mention SSK's 99% number), I am reasonably confident that sanity would be implicit in his message.

Don't misunderstand, it's not necessarily implicit, just...it's a situation where I trust the basic function of my role.

[Pomegranate]

Post coming tonight, hopefully.

[Faraday]

Glork's piece of information is noted. Nothing else to say, I tend to believe it at though.

It's null reasoning now. I also realized I was trying to rely on a silly meta that wouldn't necessarily hold in a bastard game.

But basically, I figured that Faraday was pretty much claiming insane cop so SSK was probably sane. I have since retracted this opinion though.

Yeah I've no real idea about my sanity.

See I've been thinking (DANGEROUS) or maybe overthinking? Idk, it says guilty or innocent, but doesn't explicityly say what of, so idk it could be that I could have sanity issues, I'd be hesitant to believe me sane due to it being a bastard game anyway, but that makes me hesitant too.

Also, unrelated, but I'd like to point out there is a possibility of a scum cop, either with Faraday or SSK. So don't assume either is confirmed.

Eh possible? I guess, though I'd assume a fake claim was more likely than a scum cop surely. Can't see much use in a scum cop.

Looking forward to Pom's post.


As for Snow rushing the lynch, eh ongoing meta says she's ...dogged, unrevealed alignments in both games but I'd not take it as an aligment tell, just a personality tell.

[Glork]

Just as a frame of reference, can everybody please just name the one person whose posting you have found scummiest, regardless of role information? A secondary choice would be just fine and dandy, too.

[Iecerint]

I was going to explain to Faraday that, ye know, rolecops exist, but, upon reflection, I actually agree with him, I think, in this case.

...dogged, unrevealed alignments in both games...

Hmm? You mean they weren't revealed post-game?

[Faraday]

I'm aware of rolecops I was just saying an actual scum cop seems less likely.

Nah, she's alive in the other game too, is what I meant I mean like well, she's quite tunnel visioned and seems to only focus on wanting that person lynched.


Pom is my top lynch choice at the moment Glork.

As for second probably Vaya I think.

[UncertainKitten]

Eh possible? I guess, though I'd assume a fake claim was more likely than a scum cop surely. Can't see much use in a scum cop.

Role cops, for one, fake claim purposes for another.

Just as a frame of reference, can everybody please just name the one person whose posting you have found scummiest, regardless of role information? A secondary choice would be just fine and dandy, too.

Faraday. But only because of Josh.

Hmm, for second let's go with Pom, but I have been giving her a subconscious pass for the same reasons SP consciously outlined. So, I suppose that excludes her.

Well, it'd be nice if Vaya posted more, even if his life is spared for today.

[Iecerint]

I missed Glork's question due to simulpost.

I think SP has been the scummiest poster for his very silly attack on Vaya, but, because that's largely irrelevant if Vaya is scum and we have reason to believe Vaya is scum (via SSK), it makes more sense to see Vaya's alignment first. (There is a highly annoying element of wait-and-see going around.) I'd put any of the minimalists at tier 2.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: Well, JL would be tied for tier 1 or would be tier 2, but I like Faraday's posts, and his claim makes lynching him a near-impossibility in the short-term IMO, anyway.

[Iecerint]

Players with wait-and-see status

Sociopath
Vaya(/SSK)
Alma

[Pomegranate]

We need a massclaim.

It's D1. No, unless you have a specific reason to suggest it.

Also missed fishy saying 3rd parties generally appear innocent. That’s, well that’s untrue. It really does depend on the game. Lots of SK’s don’t get investigation immunity in my experience though.

Actually from what I know, SKs (I don't know about cults or other third parties) are often either NK immune or investigation immune.

Pom why is the 3rd or any other arbitary number on the bandwagon more scummy than any other if the reasons are justified. I don’t understand this as a scum-tell at all, actually.

It's an old wiki-tell, actually. I don't think it holds much water, and only ever bring it up when a few people all join a bandwagon in a row. But I find it worth mentioning- it's not the specific number 3, it's the jump onto a wagon by a few people at once.

Is being hypocritical a scum-tell Pom?

Well, I think so.

This is a no-reveal game as I understand it, though certain players are probably (hopefully) in a position to determine dead players' alignments. So. I assumed you were just making a cute joke.

If I'm not mistaken, it's partial reveal.

Should add that I've never been in a game with a non-sane Cop. Is it common that they're led to believe their results are 99% certain? I'm assuming not, because you and Faraday used the wording of his claim to infer his sanity.

The one time I played with one, his role PM didn't mention sanity, but he was sure he was sane. Only after he strongly pushed a mislynch did we start discussing sanity.

Also, unrelated, but I'd like to point out there is a possibility of a scum cop, either with Faraday or SSK. So don't assume either is confirmed.

Yes, but I don't think we should lynch either until we have reason to.

Don't misunderstand, it's not necessarily implicit, just...it's a situation where I trust the basic function of my role.

To you and any other investigative roles: It's a BASTARD game. I don't think anyone can be 99% sure of anything.

Just as a frame of reference, can everybody please just name the one person whose posting you have found scummiest, regardless of role information? A secondary choice would be just fine and dandy, too.

Alma, Vaya

Players with wait-and-see status

Sociopath
Vaya(/SSK)
Alma

I see what with the bottom ones, but what with DP? Did I miss something?

Not the best post. My vote is staying on Alma, but might move in the near future. I believe Faraday's claim, and I don't find the whole guilty/innocent thing

that

odd.

[Iecerint]

I think SP has been the scummiest poster for his very silly attack on Vaya, but, because that's largely irrelevant if Vaya is scum and we have reason to believe Vaya is scum (via SSK), it makes more sense to see Vaya's alignment first.

That one is a self-imposed wait-and-see.

[SocioPath]

Just as a frame of reference, can everybody please just name the one person whose posting you have found scummiest, regardless of role information? A secondary choice would be just fine and dandy, too.

Iecerint.

Vaya, regardless of role information.



I also note those that say 'OK' to the faraday claim, but 'NEIGH' to the SSK claim.

[Iecerint]

Alma would be at the top of my "scummy posters" list, but I wasn't sure whether implicitly claiming scum counted as "role information."

[SocioPath]

Alma would be at the top of my "scummy posters" list, but I wasn't sure whether implicitly claiming scum counted as "role information."

If he had specifically said "I'm scum, change me," then yes, I would consider that role information, because you are being directly influenced by that as opposed to his actual scummy/nonscummy play.
So him saying what he did, you are judging him, not by his play, but by his "role information".
But would you consider him scum for his other merits or lack-there-of?

Hence why I specified with Vaya, because there is also 'role information' that deals with him. (SSK)