Newbie 888 - Game Over!

[Magic Trainer]

Mkay.

Such as Walrus right now, I feel like he's just lurking so I would prefer to change my vote to him but I believe my vote for the time being is good enough

Note - MT's "vote for the time being" was on Kyiv, "because she's the person posting above me".

the scum however I don't a clue on hower I do suspect Walrus has a chance of being scum

... eh?

if I think someone is the mafia I vote for them

How does this scan with the Walrus debacle?

I said I felt like he was lurking not that I was 100% sure.
[...]
I prefer to be sure about this things and find more about the current situation instead of changing my mind every few posts.
[...]
as I just said I wanted to be sure before I changed my vote.

My vote for Lastsuriver ws because I think he's scum, no, I am not 100% sure and I'm certain I never will be howvere I am sure enough to vote. It seems to me like you think my opinions and thoughts abotu this game are set in stone, when they're not.

So... you want to be 100% sure someone is lurking before you vote for them. But you vote for whoever you think is scum. But you don't need to be 100% sure someone is scum to vote for them, and you never will be 100% sure. But you thought Walrus had a good chance of being scum. But you didn't vote for him.

Vote: Magic Trainer

Also guys,

please

use the preview button to check your post before you submit it. If your quote tags are broken, it will be very obvious and you can fix it before posting.

Thinking of a reason why someone is scum and thinking scum are two different things. I find it odd that you are treating them exactly the same. I find it stranger that you're still ignoring that I said I wanted to hear Walrus's defense when I said that only a few pages up. I know you just joined but I'm sure you would have read my reasoning a few posts up when you were so fast to vote me.

How does this scan with the Walrus debacle?

I've got no idea what debacle means so I'll look it up.

Main Entry: de·ba·cle
Pronunciation: \dē-ˈbä-kəl, di-, -ˈba-; ÷ˈde-bə-kəl\
Variant(s): also dé·bâ·cle \also dā-ˈbäk(lə)\
Function: noun
Etymology: French débâcle, from débâcler to clear, from Middle French desbacler, from des- de- + bacler to block, perhaps from Vulgar Latin *bacculare, from Latin baculum staff
Date: 1802
1 : a tumultuous breakup of ice in a river
2 : a violent disruption (as of an army) : rout
3 a : a great disaster b : a complete failure : fiasco

I have no idea how ice and rivers relate to this so I believe we're looking at the disaster defination? How is my suspecting Walrus (Who you are now taking a place of) a disaster? A simple suspicion that ended up confirming he wasn't lurking helped town. Also why would you expect me to vote for someone if I don't know if the reason itself it true?

I believe I just have one more thing to answer in your post,

So... you want to be 100% sure someone is lurking before you vote for them. But you vote for whoever you think is scum. But you don't need to be 100% sure someone is scum to vote for them, and you never will be 100% sure. But you thought Walrus had a good chance of being scum.

But you didn't vote for him.

Because I didn't know if he was lurking. If I would have voted for him I would have been voting him for a false reason. Which is why I felt it was better to wait and see if that reason turned out to be true. I voted for LS because I thought he was scum, in this scenario I actualy know my reasons as to why he's scum. In the Walrus scenario I do not know if my reason is true or false. Really all of this makes sense too me, I'm not sure why it doesn't to you and it seems you're twisting the facts around and ommiting some facts just to make me look scummy. But I'm fine with that, continue to question me as you wish.

I'd just like to point out now that if I only vote if I'm 100% which is seems like I have to do in your reasoning otherwise I'm scum would only hurt town. It's very difficult to be sure unless you happen to be the cop, and if I had to be 100% sure to vote then I wouldn't change my vote or allow the town to learn new facts which would hurt town.

Also LS like I said I'd tell you what I thought of those two. Medix is definatly suspicous no doubt, howvere a part of me is wondering whether he's just new so I'm currently undecided. I do find it worrying that he didn't answer my question a page or so back. As for Kyiv I have similar thoughts, she appears to be contributing to the discussion and that's good. However I'm still keeping my eye out for her in case she might slip up so we could find a scum tell (As I am with everyone of course) in case for the chance she might be scum.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

Alrite so Medix is at L-2. Let him give his defense.

If he doesn't give any defense by 8pm EST tomorrow I will vote for him.

You do realize that we have seventeen days until the deadline right? We don't need to lynch Medix yet. We can still get a lot more out of D1.

I understand that, its just that if someone who is already called out for lurking can't come up with a defense in a day and a half, that person deserves to be lynched because even if they are not scum they are not helping the town in any way.

[Lastsurvivor]

If you look at definition three, it says fiasco.

[Lastsurvivor]

Alrite so Medix is at L-2. Let him give his defense.

If he doesn't give any defense by 8pm EST tomorrow I will vote for him.

You do realize that we have seventeen days until the deadline right? We don't need to lynch Medix yet. We can still get a lot more out of D1.

I understand that, its just that if someone who is already called out for lurking can't come up with a defense in a day and a half, that person deserves to be lynched because even if they are not scum they are not helping the town in any way.

I totally agree, but we don't need to lynch Medix yet. We're not that far into D1, and we can learn more from discussion. If Medix is lynched now, and he's not scum, what have we gained? Definitely not as much as we could have.

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I totally agree, but we don't need to lynch Medix yet. We're not that far into D1, and we can learn more from discussion. If Medix is lynched now, and he's not scum, what have we gained? Definitely not as much as we could have.

Totally agree, Let The Discussion Continue

[Lastsurvivor]

I totally agree, but we don't need to lynch Medix yet. We're not that far into D1, and we can learn more from discussion. If Medix is lynched now, and he's not scum, what have we gained? Definitely not as much as we could have.

Totally agree, Let The Discussion Continue

Was your vote on Medix going to be final? If so, why did you want D1 to end so early?

[PatriotsDynasty09]

I totally agree, but we don't need to lynch Medix yet. We're not that far into D1, and we can learn more from discussion. If Medix is lynched now, and he's not scum, what have we gained? Definitely not as much as we could have.

Totally agree, Let The Discussion Continue

Was your vote on Medix going to be final? If so, why did you want D1 to end so early?

If he gave NO defense at all then yes,
If he gives a little/average defense then I would question him a little before making my decision

By putting him to L-1 I am not ending D1. I know that random scum or newb could come in and lynch him, but I think of my vote as a little added pressure rather than the vote that "ended D1".

[Lastsurvivor]

I totally agree, but we don't need to lynch Medix yet. We're not that far into D1, and we can learn more from discussion. If Medix is lynched now, and he's not scum, what have we gained? Definitely not as much as we could have.

Totally agree, Let The Discussion Continue

Was your vote on Medix going to be final? If so, why did you want D1 to end so early?

If he gave NO defense at all then yes,
If he gives a little/average defense then I would question him a little before making my decision

By putting him to L-1 I am not ending D1. I know that random scum or newb could come in and lynch him, but I think of my vote as a little added pressure rather than the vote that "ended D1".

L-1 is a wee bit past my comfort zone when it comes to bandwagons. But yes, we definitely need a response from Medix.

[Kyiv]

I looked at the playerlist, and I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious.

Can you explain what you meant by this? You mentioned your vote for Random was... random, so do you have anything better to go off of? Who is scummy in your books right now?

New questions! Are you going to answer these questions, Medix? Why did you avoid them?

Welcome Almighty Bob! Let's hope you live up to your name.

[almightybob]

Some of us are still learning, including me since this is my first game, but that doesn't prevent from trying to find scum.

Agreed. Being a newbie doesn't excuse you from having to scumhunt.

Because I didn't know if he was lurking. If I would have voted for him I would have been voting him for a false reason. Which is why I felt it was better to wait and see if that reason turned out to be true. I voted for LS because I thought he was scum, in this scenario I actualy know my reasons as to why he's scum. In the Walrus scenario I do not know if my reason is true or false.

This is a better explanation, I see more where you're coming from now.


I also agree that L-1 is unnecessary this early in the game. L-1 is where you put someone when you want them to roleclaim. I wouldn't put someone at L-1 unless I was happy with them being that day's lynch. By all means state your inclination to vote for Medix or lay down a FoS so we all know where your vote

would

be, but better safe than sorry - I would like one of you to unvote Medix please.

[kunkstar7]

L-1 is a good technique to put pressure on a

likely

suspect imo. In cases where the entire basis for voting someone is absurd (such as a random vote bandwagon) L-1 is not good.

I think you lurk, and although I don't normally find lurking scummy, you might be a different case.

Why would you not find lurking scummy? Can I get an example where it somehow is beneficial to the town? In my view lurking deprives the town of good posts to obtain information from, and if the town allows lurkers, the scum can easily just fall off the radar, easy win.

I think Medix is only at L-2 right now.

[Kyiv]

I also agree that L-1 is unnecessary this early in the game. L-1 is where you put someone when you want them to roleclaim. I wouldn't put someone at L-1 unless I was happy with them being that day's lynch. By all means state your inclination to vote for Medix or lay down a FoS so we all know where your vote

would

be, but better safe than sorry - I would like one of you to unvote Medix please.

I don't like taking the steam out of a good bandwagon. Merely stating your caution, as well as others doing the same, is a good enough ward against any quicklynches. Medix is at L-2, I don't think an unvote is necessary, unless we see some form of defense or a better candidate.

Anyways:

FoS: Patriot

[PatriotsDynasty09]

L-1 is a good technique to put pressure on a

likely

suspect imo. In cases where the entire basis for voting someone is absurd (such as a random vote bandwagon) L-1 is not good.

I think Medix is only at L-2 right now.

He is only at L-2 correct, I only FOS'ed him. But we are not

bandwagoning

him, he has been lurking and nonresponsive the whole game.

[Lastsurvivor]

L-1 is a good technique to put pressure on a

likely

suspect imo. In cases where the entire basis for voting someone is absurd (such as a random vote bandwagon) L-1 is not good.

I think you lurk, and although I don't normally find lurking scummy, you might be a different case.

Why would you not find lurking scummy? Can I get an example where it somehow is beneficial to the town? In my view lurking deprives the town of good posts to obtain information from, and if the town allows lurkers, the scum can easily just fall off the radar, easy win.

I think Medix is only at L-2 right now.

Lurking is not beneficial to the town at all. I just think that lurking does not automatically make you scum, and is a bit unreliable.

[kunkstar7]

Lurking is not beneficial to the town at all. I just think that lurking does not automatically make you scum, and is a bit unreliable.

Ok, I can agree with that.

[almightybob]

I don't like taking the steam out of a good bandwagon. Merely stating your caution, as well as others doing the same, is a good enough ward against any quicklynches. Medix is at L-2, I don't think an unvote is necessary, unless we see some form of defense or a better candidate.

Anyways:

FoS: Patriot

If he's at L-2 I'm fine with that. No need for more unvotes if that's the case.
And I see your point about steam, but if you let it steamroll on unchecked you get an accidental lynch. The fact that several people thought Medix was at L-1 when he wasn't is perfect illustration of how easy it is to lose track of the current votecount. In this case we counted one too high, but we could just have easily counted one too low and lynched him within 6 pages.

That's

why I don't like someone being at L-1 this early.

Anyway, the point is moot now, let's move on.

Mod, can we get an official votecount to set us straight please?

[RandomMaster]

Medix has been unreliable at this point, that's true, and I think I pointed that out in previous posts. However, I would like to keep it at L-2. That should be enough pressure for him to make a defense, which I believe everyone wants to hear at this point.

While we're waiting, Kyiv, why did you FoS Patriot?

For the vote count, I reread a couple of times, and I am 100% certain it's L-2, unless someone posts a vote or unvote as I'm typing this.

[Kyiv]

Can't really say, but his behavior so far has been off-putting. I think he is someone I want to be wary about.

[pablito]

Vote Count

Medix (3): MichelSableheart, Kyiv, RandomMaster
Magic Trainer (2): kunkstar7, almightybob
Kyiv (1): PatriotsDynasty09
RandomMaster (1): Medix
Lastsurvivor (1): Magic Trainer

not voting: Lastsurvivor

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

[MichelSableheart]

almightybob, I know you just replaced in, but can you please pay a bit more attention to the thread? The explanation you found convincing had IMO already been given in post #109. You were the only one who got confused about Medix' vote count. In post #123, Patriots clearly stated that Medix was currenly at L-2, and would be put on L-1 by Patriots if he didn't post a defense soon.

Kyiv, is it possible to give an explanation for your votes and FoSes in the posts you put them in? #136 is rather confusing. On first glance, it looks like you are FoSing Patriots because he tried to take the steam out of the bandwagon. On second read, that's clearly not the case, but still.

I don't like how hard some people are arguing against putting Medix at L-1 right now. Pressure to get someone to contribute works best when there is a significant chance of that player being lynched.

[Medix]

I looked at the playerlist, and I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious.

Can you explain what you meant by this? You mentioned your vote for Random was... random, so do you have anything better to go off of? Who is scummy in your books right now?

New questions! Are you going to answer these questions, Medix? Why did you avoid them?

Sorry guys, my net was in a problem today.

Honestly I'm quite lost in this discussion and instead of bandwagoning, I gave an insignificant vote to Random. I hope in the next day I can contribute more.

[almightybob]

almightybob, I know you just replaced in, but can you please pay a bit more attention to the thread? The explanation you found convincing had IMO already been given in post #109.

I still didn't fully follow 109. Now that I more clearly understand MT's position, looking back I can make more sense of it.

You were the only one who got confused about Medix' vote count. In post #123, Patriots clearly stated that Medix was currenly at L-2, and would be put on L-1 by Patriots if he didn't post a defense soon.

My humblest apologies, I saw this sentence:

By putting him to L-1 I am not ending D1. I know that random scum or newb could come in and lynch him, but I think of my vote as a little added pressure rather than the vote that "ended D1".

And took the use of present tense to indicate a current state of affairs.
Read the above sentence from Patriot again and tell me it doesn't say "I am currently voting for Medix, and I have just put him at L-1".

I don't like how hard some people are arguing against putting Medix at L-1 right now. Pressure to get someone to contribute works best when there is a significant chance of that player being lynched.

It's Page 6. We're barely a week in. There's no need to actually put him at L-1 this early. L-2 with others prepared to vote is plenty of pressure.
There's no way that, in 6 pages,

anyone

should be convinced enough to put Medix at L-1. We just haven't had enough information to give that strong a read on anyone yet.

L-1 is where you put someone when you want them to roleclaim. Wanting a claim is what you do when you're completely happy with that person being the lynch choice. It's essentially a double-check that you're not about to lynch a power role.

That last paragraph was more for the benefit of newbies, I assume our IC would know this. Indeed, the fact that our IC is the one I'm responding to raises my eyebrow.

_ ^
o.O


Medix, you're not impressing me here. Answer the questions please.

1) What did you mean by "I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious."?
2) If your vote for him was purely random like you said, why did you expect him to counter it? It's not like there's much to defend against if you get chosen randomly.
3) What did you expect him to do while countering your vote? What reaction were you looking for?
4) Who do you think is likely to be scum just now?

If you are confused, go back to when it happened and reread to refresh your memory.

[Medix]

Medix, you're not impressing me here. Answer the questions please.

1) What did you mean by "I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious."?
2) If your vote for him was purely random like you said, why did you expect him to counter it? It's not like there's much to defend against if you get chosen randomly.
3) What did you expect him to do while countering your vote? What reaction were you looking for?
4) Who do you think is likely to be scum just now?

If you are confused, go back to when it happened and reread to refresh your memory.

1. I just bait him to see if he has a good counter or not.
2. Many Day 1 votes is a random vote, and there must be some counter from the target.
3. I still can't really read a response, so I hope he gave a response that can be seen by another player to hit back.
4. I have no idea. I should wait to day 2 and keep more focus in the arguments.

[almightybob]

3. I still can't really read a response, so I hope he gave a response that can be seen by another player to hit back.

That's not what I asked. I want you to tell me what response you were expecting from him.

4. I have no idea. I should wait to day 2 and keep more focus in the arguments.

That's not good enough. You can't sit out the rest of Day 1 and not contribute anything. 6 pages is not very much. If you're this lost, go back and reread the whole thread. It shouldn't take long.
Also, you seem very confident that you'll still be alive on Day 2. Why?

[Kyiv]

Kyiv, is it possible to give an explanation for your votes and FoSes in the posts you put them in? #136 is rather confusing. On first glance, it looks like you are FoSing Patriots because he tried to take the steam out of the bandwagon. On second read, that's clearly not the case, but still.

My votes are typically clear enough, and unsurprising. I should have said: "

IGMEOY

" instead of FoS, since that's all I'm really trying to point out.

Medix, you're not impressing me here. Answer the questions please.

1) What did you mean by "I see RandomMaster didn't counter my vote, that makes me more suspicious."?
2) If your vote for him was purely random like you said, why did you expect him to counter it? It's not like there's much to defend against if you get chosen randomly.
3) What did you expect him to do while countering your vote? What reaction were you looking for?
4) Who do you think is likely to be scum just now?

If you are confused, go back to when it happened and reread to refresh your memory.

1. I just bait him to see if he has a good counter or not.
2. Many Day 1 votes is a random vote, and there must be some counter from the target.
3. I still can't really read a response, so I hope he gave a response that can be seen by another player to hit back.
4. I have no idea. I should wait to day 2 and keep more focus in the arguments.

Oh so you answer his questions, but mine aren't good enough for you? [/bad joke]

So from these answers, can I assume that you haven't been reading or keeping up with the thread? Because if you have, you must have an opinion or a stance on

something

. And if you haven't, then you REALLY should go back and read the thread. Waiting until D2 is bad because:

1. You're about to be lynched.
2. D2 discussions are usually revolving around D1 discussions. You'll still be at a disadvantage.
3. The longer you put off reading the thread, the harder it is to catch up. Eventually, you'll be so far behind, that you'll dislike the game and want to replace out or simply not play. You'll have no idea what's going on, and we'll be very much chagrined and tempted to lynch you just for not playing. This is no fun for you or anyone.

So far your defense isn't all that great, but at least you put one up. I'll be waiting on another response from you =P