Mini 898: The Game (you just lost it)-OVER

[Raskol]

Here's the game where he's scum:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Here's a game where he lurks as town but is convinced to help the town out more by people threatening to lynch him:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 94&start=0

Those are the only two I've read so far, but they're enough to convince me that a wagon on Mrsuave will help remind him that he needs to be productive. Otherwise he'll just continue playing RVS until endgame.

SolemnJ has been prodded.
Mammy, will you sing my Trip Machine?
Suffer-2- Torqez, MrSuave
AK47x2-2-Peabody, AlmasterGM
AlmasterGM-2-SolemnJ, Llamaeatataco
Torqez-2-Suffer, Peabody
Llamaeatataco-1-Diamondilium
Diamondilium-1-Llamaeatataco
Mr. Suave-1-Raskol

[AK47x2]

AK: Why do you say this? My defense was logical and perfectly warranted. I would be interested to hear what 'weird little bits of logic' you think I was using. I acknowledge that what makes sense to me probably won't make sense to some other people, but in this instance I don't think I was using particularly peculiar reasoning. Also, what exactly were you saying in your first post since I left? You find me townish because no scum would do what I have done/said. What? This bit thoroughly confused me. What exactly was so stupid no scum would do it?

Are you saying that I am too scummy to actually be scum?

Emphasis mine.

Yeah, that's my basic gist here. No half-decent scum would ever say anything which could possibly be construed as a confession to being scum.

As for your odd logic, I pretty much meant the massive amounts of self doubt you had about casting suspicion on me in the first place. Seemed to me like if you were that unsure about it then you wouldn't have mentioned it in the first place.

[Diamondilium]

Here's the game where he's scum:

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Here's a game where he lurks as town but is convinced to help the town out more by people threatening to lynch him:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 94&start=0

Those are the only two I've read so far, but they're enough to convince me that a wagon on Mrsuave will help remind him that he needs to be productive. Otherwise he'll just continue playing RVS until endgame.

Wait you said that he lurks as scum, but you've only read two of his games in one of which he was town. Why did you answer my question with yes?

[Raskol]

I already told you before you even asked the question that I'd only read two games. If you weren't willing to take that sample size seriously, fair enough, but then, why would you even ask the question?

It's no good to ask me the question knowing I've only read two games, and

then

get miffed with my

answer

because it's only based on two games.

[Diamondilium]

I already told you before you even asked the question that I'd only read two games. If you weren't willing to take that sample size seriously, fair enough, but then, why would you even ask the question?

It's no good to ask me the question knowing I've only read two games, and

then

get miffed with my

answer

because it's only based on two games.

Yeah you're right about the sample size, but what about saying that he lurks as scum when you've seen him lurk as both scum and town?

[Raskol]

Because he does lurk as scum, and if he's town then a wagon will motivate him to start posting. And if it doesn't motivate him to start posting, then he's better off dead because he'll be a useless, unreadable question mark of dead weight for the rest of the game.

In my last three or four games we were plagued by lurkers and didn't take care of them early. In the end it's always come back to bite us in the ass.

[Diamondilium]

Because he does lurk as scum, and if he's town then a wagon will motivate him to start posting. And if it doesn't motivate him to start posting, then he's better off dead because he'll be a useless, unreadable question mark of dead weight for the rest of the game.

In my last three or four games we were plagued by lurkers and didn't take care of them early. In the end it's always come back to bite us in the ass.

Hmm, I thought your answer was misleading.
Lurkers are a problem, but we shouldn't let them take away from legitimate scumhunting. It's better to get the mod to prod and if necessary replace them. A lurker, from my perspective, isn't as good a candidate as some others.

[Raskol]

As far as I can say, MrSuave is as likely to be scum as anyone else at this point, and if we let him keep lurking, we'll never get any more info out of him to tell whether he's town or scum. He won't get replaced, wither: if you've noticed, he's very careful about posting often enough not to get replaced. I've already requested a replacement for SolemnJ if you remember, but that won't work for MrSuave. He'll do this all game and there's nothing in the rules that says he can't so the mod won't do anything.

Basically, the way I see it is, if he's scum, and we let him lurk, we're giving him a free pass to victory. If he's town, he'll start posting. Either way, the best time to take care of people like him is on D1.

[Peabody]

When is torqez back from V/LA? What about Suffer?

And where is Almaster...

[MrSuave]

D: that is a true statement. I believe that I won as scum due to that. BUT that was because I had no idea what to do, and it was my first game, and it wasn't a noob game either. I'm not scum, but that argument doesn't work anyway xD. let me so a quick skim and I'll post some thoughts before I go to bed. sound good? it's almost 6pm here so that gives me 6 hours from the time I post this to post my thoughts.

[Raskol]

D: that is a true statement. I believe that I won as scum due to that. BUT that was because I had no idea what to do, and it was my first game, and it wasn't a noob game either. I'm not scum, but that argument doesn't work anyway xD. let me so a quick skim and I'll post some thoughts before I go to bed. sound good? it's almost 6pm here so that gives me 6 hours from the time I post this to post my thoughts.

That would help, yeah.

[llamaeatataco]

I'm pretty sure that starting this game over Christmas break might have been a bad idea. I feel like only half of the people here are active...

Basically, if you aren't peabody, Raskol, Diamond or AK, post more. Now. I'm not too concerned yet (when exactly is the deadline?) but I don't really get the feeling that you're actively doing anything.

Now, to beat a dead horse in a spot not yet bruised...

Diamond, is it safe to say that your reaction to my accusation of buddying was essentially to blow smoke? You brought up the other times where people have had agreeing ideas, and you had your memory slip, but other than that you didn't do anything else other than to deny it... I'm pretty sure this is called a red herring.

Also, I was going to ask Raskol why he was so intent on wagoning on MrSuave, but that already got cleared up. =/

Basically, be more active and someone please start acting really scummy so we know who to lynch. kthx.

[MrSuave]

first, I agree that maybe right before Christmas was a bad time to start a game, but then again, that's not fair to those who don't celebrate it. (you're missing out btw =p)

I don't really think that I "lurked" that game(the second link). I mean, I was a vig, and I had my suspicions, and I made it clear who I was targeting. I did lead the town into disaster the second night by killing the doc, but hey. we all mess up right? and to be fair, he didn't really defend himself against me. actually he ignored my warning vote all together. =/ (btw I can give links to my other games if that helps, but some of them are pretty bad ^_^;)

at anyrate, most of my games I'm accused of lurking. so I wouldn't say that it constitutes a scum tell. and that was my only scum game. it was also my first game on this site, and I was "thrown" into it by my friend who got me on this site. in the Korlash game he is Nikanor. I was used to playing RL mafia, and not mafia where people can go back and look at what you said before. and also my scum partners were retarded, and the first one gave the other one away. so yes, I tried to stay below the radar on that one xD. but every other game, I've been town. I'll give you a link to show you where I lead the town to victory! and then I can show you where I epic phail. but yeah, there ja go.

as for who I think is scum atm, I don't really have any strong negative vibes from anyone personally. if I do, I'll let ya know.

[Suffer]

Sorry about not posting and whatnot. Holiday season and all that jazz. Anyway...

Both Torqez and MrSuave need to die. I can't make much of a case on Torqez other than what's been posted. Hell, he never responded to my initial question to him.

MrSuave, on the other hand, has been posting a bit more. But the content is non-existant.

/confirm

vote: AlmasterGM for being a pokemon!

Confirmation/random vote

that is true, you are a pokemon. but it's not as daunting as a big bright pikachu. and your pokemon picture is pretty cute xD. at any rate... putting someone at L-2 in RMS, and how I feel. well I feel pretty okay with it. I was just randomly picking somone for a random reason, but if I really felt like pika was in imediate danger, I wouldn't have put my vote on him.

Useless/defending L-2 vote placed on AlmasterGM...well, defending implies information. How MrSuave feels about it is more accurate.

well, for one thing, it was a purely random vote. I didn't even count the votes before I voted. I thought I had said that before.

anyway, what I think about suffer?

---> "That depends what you take justification to mean. If you take it to mean having a reason, then yes, my vote was justified. But by that definition, everyone's vote is justified, because everyone has a reason when they vote, whether it's how their name looked or what came up when they rolled the dice.

When I said justified, I meant well-grounded. I wasn't voting AlmasterGM because I thought him to be scum, but rather to continue a bandwagon." <---

that rubs me wrong, I'm not going to lie. so I'm going to go ahead an unvote vote: suffer

This might be your most content-full post this game. I have a problem with it, however, and I'll get to it in a bit.

so what you're saying is:
if he is town, I am scum
if he is scum, I am scum

that's not a very good way of thinking.

Not really arguing the points, just the conclusion derived. And not really arguing, just commenting.

hm.... probably the switch to suffer I suppose. everything else is pretty mild compared to that I guess

And here's the rub. What can be argued as your most important post this game is described by you as your scummiest post this game. Everything else is pretty mild, because everything else is filler.

I suppose you could say that, yes. But it hasn't been a very long game so far.

Admitting to doing nothing pro-town this game. Not exactly the best way to help the town.

whaaaaat!? #2 on the most scummy list? I didn't think people thought that badly of me so soon D:

I can't imagine why, with how useful your posts have been this game.

was there really somthing to defend?

Filler, content-less, etc.

well, I don't see how voting me is useful.

This is wholly useless to say, unless the scum are forced to say that voting them is useful. Otherwise, filler, content-less, etc.

D: that is a true statement. I believe that I won as scum due to that. BUT that was because I had no idea what to do, and it was my first game, and it wasn't a noob game either. I'm not scum, but that argument doesn't work anyway xD. let me so a quick skim and I'll post some thoughts before I go to bed. sound good? it's almost 6pm here so that gives me 6 hours from the time I post this to post my thoughts.

Thanks for clarifying you're not scum. I was worried there for a sec. The irony here is that you're commenting on how you won due to lurking as scum, while you're lurking in this game.

first, I agree that maybe right before Christmas was a bad time to start a game, but then again, that's not fair to those who don't celebrate it. (you're missing out btw =p)

I don't really think that I "lurked" that game(the second link). I mean, I was a vig, and I had my suspicions, and I made it clear who I was targeting. I did lead the town into disaster the second night by killing the doc, but hey. we all mess up right? and to be fair, he didn't really defend himself against me. actually he ignored my warning vote all together. =/ (btw I can give links to my other games if that helps, but some of them are pretty bad ^_^Wink

at anyrate, most of my games I'm accused of lurking. so I wouldn't say that it constitutes a scum tell. and that was my only scum game. it was also my first game on this site, and I was "thrown" into it by my friend who got me on this site. in the Korlash game he is Nikanor. I was used to playing RL mafia, and not mafia where people can go back and look at what you said before. and also my scum partners were retarded, and the first one gave the other one away. so yes, I tried to stay below the radar on that one xD. but every other game, I've been town. I'll give you a link to show you where I lead the town to victory! and then I can show you where I epic phail. but yeah, there ja go.

as for who I think is scum atm, I don't really have any strong negative vibes from anyone personally. if I do, I'll let ya know.

That's a really big quote. It must have a lot of game analysis in it, since you said in the previous post you were going to post your thoughts. Wait, you mean everything in that big post sans the last two sentences is completely irrelevant to this game? Why, that's not helpful at all! And even the last two sentences are worthless. They're completely non-committal, not showing any suspicion. Town has no reason not to ruffle feathers and throw some accusations around to stir the pot. Scum do.

So, there's MrSuave's entire posting history. Maybe a couple more votes will help you be more productive.

unvote, vote: MrSuave

[Peabody]

Alright. I give in. I'm going to wagon here. Torqez is not back yet, so until he gets back I'm down with this wagon. I agree with Suffer's analysis that Mr.Suave hasn't added much, and I'd hate to see him alive in Lylo. Right now I have a completely blank read on him due to his lurking and his contentless posts.

unvote; vote MrSuave

[qax42]

@

Town

:

Sorry guys. That unannounced VL/A was pretty bad. I actually requested a replacement in my other game without realizing it ended already so that I could just focus on this one. I'm here, and will try to post once every 24 hours from here on.

@

llamaateataco/Diamondilum

:

I agree with the general sentiment that this discussion was based on poor wording on llama's posts. His arguments were terribly flawed, and Diamondilium latched on to that. I will not support a llamaateataco or Diamondilium lynch based on either of these.

@

Torquez

:

Can someone say scum candidate? Maybe this guy can:

@

MrSuave

:

Agreed with the general sentiment that MrSuave is looking scummy.

I'm going to go with gut and sit on a Torquez lynch at this point, though.

Vote: Torquez

[qax42]

EBWOP:

When I say:

I'm going to go with gut and sit on a Torquez lynch at this point, though.

Going with "gut" in this context was supposed to imply that, between the two candidates, I think Torquez is probably more likely to be scum. I've written about him in earlier posts, and he has shirked questions since the start of the game.

[qax42]

I completely missed this:

@

Peabody

:

I agree with Suffer's analysis that Mr.Suave hasn't added much, and I'd hate to see him alive in Lylo. Right now

I have a completely blank read on him

due to his lurking and his contentless posts.

(emphasis mine)

You have a neutral read on someone, yet you are voting him? Moreover, based on somebody else's analysis?

[Peabody]

I completely missed this:

@

Peabody

:

I agree with Suffer's analysis that Mr.Suave hasn't added much, and I'd hate to see him alive in Lylo. Right now

I have a completely blank read on him

due to his lurking and his contentless posts.

(emphasis mine)

You have a neutral read on someone, yet you are voting him? Moreover, based on somebody else's analysis?

Yeah. Based on the fact that Mr. Suave is lurking to the point that I cannot get a good read on him, I believe that we should either lynch him (he's a good canidate for day 1) OR he should start posting more. It's not so much 'somebody else's analysis' than it is an analysis that I agree with.

[Peabody]

EBWOP

"It's not so much 'basing' my argument on someone else's analysis"...

[MrSuave]

I also said that I was accused of lurking in all my games >_> why did you leave that out? Christmas and New Years had just ended, so sorry I have a family and stuff. also, those posts about me doing nothing pro town were when the game was very slw and fairly new. I don't like that breakdown at all, and it makes things sound worse than they are.

[Suffer]

I also said that I was accused of lurking in all my games >_> why did you leave that out?

Because it's completely irrelevant to this game.

Christmas and New Years had just ended, so sorry I have a family and stuff.

Appeal to emotion. And a poor one at that. My case has nothing to do with a lack of you posting. If that were so, I would seem a tad hypocritical. My case has to do with a lack of you posting content. You went out of your way enough to check the thread and post, but not enough to actually provide information.

also, those posts about me doing nothing pro town were when the game was very slw and fairly new.

What do you think is the most pro-town thing you've done this game?

I don't like that breakdown at all, and it makes things sound worse than they are.

Then feel free to go through it and post any points of contention.

[Peabody]

MrSuave,

You are becoming more active, I see that, but whenever someone is voting for you or asking you questions, you failed to give an adequate answer. For example, when a case was posed against you, all you said was "Whaaaat? Why am I number 2 on everyone's scummy list?"

Further, I don't see you posting any protown scumhunting. You show a lack of suspicion, and I can see how that would be mafia fence-sitting. Townies do not know the alignment of players, but mafia do; hence it is easy to fencesit as mafia than to show any genuine scumhunting.

[llamaeatataco]

I still resent all of these people saying my logic is flawed, but that's probably my fault...

Anyway, the hot issue is now MrSuave and his lurkiness. Too bad everyone else already said the things I was going to say (he talked without saying anything, he hasn't even said who he finds scummy, etc.) on the issue. Now, I was giving him a break because he claimed that...

mrsuave:

it's almost 6pm here so that gives me 6 hours from the time I post this to post my thoughts.

I guess I just have my hopes to high. The last time I saw someone say this, they posted a huge wall of text that was probably as long as the rest of the page put together. They hadn't said anything previously, then BAM! But I digress. Essentially, this doesn't cut it:

as for who I think is scum atm, I don't really have any strong negative vibes from anyone personally. if I do, I'll let ya know.

Those are his thoughts so far. As far as I am concerned, he is still active lurking. MrSuave, post a huge wall of text, or at least your actual thoughts about specific people please.

unvote, vote: MrSuave

.

[AK47x2]

as for who I think is scum atm, I don't really have any strong negative vibes from anyone personally. if I do, I'll let ya know.

This is easily the most worrying thing you've said. We're D1, any negative vibes are useful at this point. And you really, really need to do a big analysis post very soon.

I'm starting to think that Torqez's scumminess is looking kind of small against everything else going on at the moment. Still willing to give him a bit more time before I start putting my vote elsewhere.