Mafia 107 - Christmas Time Mafia (Game over)

[RichardGHP]

However, I'm still getting the strongest scum-vibes from Richard. I think we can all agree that his constant noob-claims are scummy. Also, why are you so eager to explain every facet of every action you do, even when it isn't necessary? If someone had thought you were "attacking Navy" and called you out on it, you could have explained then.

Again, put this one down to paranoia.

Someone suspects me

, I try to explain my actions.

No one suspected you of attacking Navy. Again, you tried to explain yourself before anyone suspected you.

I meant if someone suspects me in general, I wasn't referring to the Navy thing.

[InflatablePie]

I like how, for most of the evening, TheLonging has been on the NY forum (because I've been, myself) for at least 5-10 minute periods a few times per hour, yet hasn't posted anything else of note, that doesn't involve him defending himself.

Provides credit to the fact that he's not trying to help the town. Also noteworthy (and more provable) is that as the wagon died down, instead of helping scumhunt, it seems like he's mostly lurked since he's less in the spotlight. If I'm wrong, show me a post that proves otherwise.

inb4Longingrepliestothis

*refresh*

@Pie (post 244)- I totally agree. I never would have thought it either. Why would he want to distance himself from Navy anyway? If that's what he was doing, could it mean they are both mafia?

If Navy flips scum, then yes, I'd say so. Any other situation and it's still 50/50. If Navy flips Town, then it could be seen as Rich distancing himself away from Navy so he can say, "Hey! I didn't have anything to do with that." In my eyes, distancing yourself from another player is never really a smart move.

@Richard: What are your opinions on Navy?
@Navy: How do you feel about Richards' post towards you, or RIchard in general?

[RichardGHP]

@Richard: What are your opinions on Navy?

He seems pretty pro-town to me. The only thing I can recall that's semi-suspicious about him is the fact that he asked me what I thought was a town-tell. Who knows if he wanted opinions to help him choose his NK?

I could be totally wrong, but I feel it shouldn't be ignored. Otherwise, he generall seems like asmart player, and fails to show many pro-mafia traits.

To sum up, he seems town, but I'm not ruling out the possibility that he has a killing role of some sort. At least not yet.

[NavyCherub]

@Navy: How do you feel about Richards' post towards you, or RIchard in general?

I don't think that Richard's post referring to me was about me exactly. I saw it as a post using my actions so far as an example for his opinion on town tells. As far as Richard himself goes, he is quite suspicious for both his defensive attitude and what appears to be a "connection" of some sort to TL. I don't find him extremely scummy but his actions today will likely be worth reviewing in the future.

[TheLonging]

The only new things I see suspicious are Richard trying to distance himself from Nvay so that in case Nvay flips scum Richard can try to say he wasn't involved in it (if Richard is scum). That's the only other thing I found suspicious about Richard though; my points about him in post 223 still apply

[diddin]

Why are we all talking about whether Navy's gonna flip scum? He's done nothing to warrant a lynch, and "lynch him so we can find about others" is not a good idea. So why all of this blind speculation. I think it's just Richard's playing style to not work with people so that he can't be held accountable when they die.

[InflatablePie]

Richard, with more "he's probably this, but could be this". Meh.

Why are we all talking about whether Navy's gonna flip scum? He's done nothing to warrant a lynch, and "lynch him so we can find about others" is not a good idea. So why all of this blind speculation. I think it's just Richard's playing style to not work with people so that he can't be held accountable when they die.

I meant if he becomes a candidate in the future. It's worth noting in the later days, I think. If Richard is still alive while Navy becomes suspicious and is lynched (being scum), we know who to go to the next day.

I haven't gotten a scum vibe from Navy and most of the town hasn't either, IIRC. I don't think anyone even posed the idea of lynching Navy.

So diddin, do you believe Richard is scum? You only said you'd like more content from him.

[DragonsofSummer]

Also if you want to see someone who says absolutely nothing original look at thelonging as well.

[Nicodemus]

I'll be adding a post later on tonight, just wanted to say that I'm still alive and reading the thread, etc.

[InflatablePie]

Also if you want to see someone who says absolutely nothing original look at thelonging as well.

I've noticed that since he brought up that Richard was "overly careful", since I brought that up using those words. In his recent post, he uses my words again. Maybe not exactly, but close enough.

*refreshes main page* Yay, Nico is back! *looks* ._.

[Annachie]

Timing. I was just debating whether to FOS you Nico for being away for 50+ hours.

TheLonging is starting to look a little better, mostly due to Richard's same-ole-same-ole backtracking and inb4newb stuff, and

lurking

.

TL, defend thyself by scum hunting, there is no other way at this stage. Lurking/running no good.

Richard, engage brain and balls. Commit. Scum hunt. You're in a similar boat.

Either you'll clear your town selves and find real scum, or implicate your scumbuddies. Both good.

and read my sig!

Malp, where are you?

[Annachie]

*EBWOP. Everybody read it.

[CCARaven4]

I'm pretty sure that TheLonging is scum, and I was just about to hammer him, but then I refreshed and saw his claim. Without that, I would feel completely confident in a hammer, but now I'm not sure what to believe. I'd hate to get off to a bad start and lynch a townie right off the bat.

What? You were scared to hammer because you saw Vanilla Townie, one of the most common scum claims? Bull.

Hold on, I was hesitant to vote for someone because they claimed town, and that's a bad thing? If I had hammered him, and he flipped vanilla town, ya'll would have killed me for hammering someone who actually claimed townie. We'll find out eventually whether I was right to be hesitant with my hammer.

As for my waffling in my post, I agree with you, everything in that post was complete waffling. I should have been more clear.

I was pretty clear about TheLonging, and at this time I hold that view, to a degree. With the claim, I am not willing to vote for him, but he's definitely acting scummy.

Again, I think I was clear about Konowa, I'm getting a town feel from him, mostly just a gut feeling from what I've read.

pman5595 is another player I view similar to TheLonging, but one who hasn't brought himself under as much fire as TheLonging. The voting pattern seems scummy, especially the whole Fugitive vote/unvote.

I only included Bogre to bring attention to him, because while I am not sure whether he is scum or town, I just think he is a smart player whose posts will be important.

@Pie, I think Richard is being careful because that's his way of playing. He doesn't want to commit to anything, for fear of coming off as super suspicious. I believe that this same strategy was in play when I didn't want to hammer TheLonging, because I didn't want to be the guy who hammered a claimed townie, if he were to flip town. Again, there is no way we'll know if I was right until TheLonging flips eventually, but for now, I still stand by my decision.

All in all, I'm not sure what about the TheLonging situation makes Cookie think I'm scum. I agree that I was waffling, but I really don't see that post as scummy, I'm sorry.

[EtherealCookie]

No lynch is a terrible idea. Like it has been said, it just brings us back to where we were, with one less townie.

Soras, like I said, I was trying to get a response from him. He has what, four posts?
Also, why the hell are some of you in a normal game if you are newbies? Shouldn't you be in the newbie games?

[diddin]

Richard, with more "he's probably this, but could be this". Meh.

Why are we all talking about whether Navy's gonna flip scum? He's done nothing to warrant a lynch, and "lynch him so we can find about others" is not a good idea. So why all of this blind speculation. I think it's just Richard's playing style to not work with people so that he can't be held accountable when they die.

I meant if he becomes a candidate in the future. It's worth noting in the later days, I think. If Richard is still alive while Navy becomes suspicious and is lynched (being scum), we know who to go to the next day.

I haven't gotten a scum vibe from Navy and most of the town hasn't either, IIRC. I don't think anyone even posed the idea of lynching Navy.

So diddin, do you believe Richard is scum? You only said you'd like more content from him.

Either Richard's scum, or he's the wussiest townie out there. He seems to play only for his own survival, and goes crazy when someone even begins to suspect him. Personally, that's really scummy.

[InflatablePie]

Either Richard's scum, or he's the wussiest townie out there. He seems to play only for his own survival, and goes crazy when someone even begins to suspect him. Personally, that's really scummy.

I'm going to ignore why you'd even vote for NL in the first place, and ask:

then why aren't you voting him if he's so damn scummy?

@ECookie - I agree about the people saying "oh, i'm still new etc.". It's getting really old and it's a horrid defense.

[InflatablePie]

Malp, where are you?

I was going to ask the same. Apparently, from a quick skim, he's in Dodgeball - 5 left, possible lylo. It's possible he's forgotten about this thread. According to that nifty link, his last post here was: 2009-12-28 18:21. I think he'll be eligible for a prod soon. I almost forgot about him, to be honest.

[DragonsofSummer]

All in all, I'm not sure what about the TheLonging situation makes Cookie think I'm scum. I agree that I was waffling, but I really don't see that post as scummy, I'm sorry.

Of course you don't.

[Bogre]

Hold on, I was hesitant to vote for someone because they claimed town, and that's a bad thing? If I had hammered him, and he flipped vanilla town, ya'll would have killed me for hammering someone who actually claimed townie. We'll find out eventually whether I was right to be hesitant with my hammer.

No one is going to claim scum. Vanilla is often a scum claim, because the majority are usually vanilla.

[Annachie]

Every time you hear a theory on which vote is the scummiest on a wagon, whoever is playing scum has heard it too.

In my experience patterns are what makes a scum tell, not an individual vote.

Not voting because you didn't want to appear scummy ...

Town worry about finding scum, scum worry about appearing town.

[Fugitive]

Alright, back again from another day away and exhausted again, but I've caught up.

Richard...

As far as I see it he's now breached his meta and he's acting even scummier. His play has been all about his own survival with literally no pro-town content.

Let's start from the beginning.

Firstly, Richard doesn't even vote in RVS. Just reminisces about his one played mafia game and noobclaims about not knowing what everyone is doing.

r2r votes Richard during RVS when everyone was literally just voting for the person in the post before them

(minus the CSL wagon).

2 minutes later I vote Richard for noobclaiming

(not knowing what RVS is).

Yeah, it wasn't like a reason I'd vote for somebody now, but it was the most legit reason at the time for a vote during RVS. Richard immediately freaks out, says there's a wagon on him and votes me.

(His reasons being that I must have band wagoned with r2r and that I placed my vote poorly; during RVS nonetheless).

You can claim that's not an OMGUS all you want Richard, but what evidence suggests is that I voted for you and your next post you placed a vote on me.

Also note Konowa defends Richards early actions as "good."

Richard then unvotes me after I unvote him. OMGUS reversal? [54]

Richard claims he's not noobclaiming against all evidence where he talks about how inexperienced he is. [67]

Quick to jump onto TheLonging wagon... in a way. He let's everyone know that TheLonging is definitely the scummiest, but is reluctant to vote for him. He also makes no other mentions of any other players, or scummy actions. Very tunnel visioned post. [101]

Votes for TheLonging and rides on Borge's posts as his only reasons. [110]

Something everyone missed. Richard mentions "not attaking Navy" in this post 5 pages before the mention that everyone is calling out.

Also mentions previous mafia game... again... and calls out the most obvious scum tell he can find

(the 7 way FoS)

. [124]

Mentions again that he needs everyone to know he has no suspicions of Navy. (Sorry Navy, but your scum buddy may be giving you away). I think if Richard flips scum there needs to be some serious consideration of Navy as scum too.[130]

***Inactivity until 188***

Talks about personal experience and TheLonging's VT claim. Then goes on to mention my "poor vote" on him during RVS. [188]

***Page 9 is a bitch to read. Annachie or Tarballs, could you fix that post?***

Defends TheLonging now

(Change of heart when everyone else has had one, eh?)

and reminisces about his previous game again. [208]

Noobclaims twice in one post and "inb4noobclaim"'s twice as well. Seems overly defensive of Navy's FoS on him. Lessens suspicion of Navy in my eyes and I don't think Richard would act the same toward a known scum buddy as to someone he didn't know was on his side. His defense against Navy seemed the same as his defense against anyone else. Still scummy the way he jumps on accusations like that. [211]

Just gonna quote this one cause I don't like it. It's easy to infer what questions he's responding to by his responses:

@Pie, it's not like I've been doing this for months or years. I've only played one game, and I didn't even last until endgame in that one. You have to give me time to be able to play this game as fluently as you guys do.

@Parama, grab a deck of cards and deal with it.

Also @Parama and @Pie, TheLonging is my top candidate for scum right now for his general scum-like actions. Other than that most of the players who have posted seem generally pro-town to me. NavyCherub asked me what I thought were town-tells. It could be because he wants to make the right choice when killing someone tonight. Of course, that's only assuming that he's scum and other than that, I get more of a pro-town vibe from him.

@Pie, if I had to pick three users who are most likely town, I would say that Parama seems pro-town to me, Navy generall seems town apart from the occasional comment. Those two are most likely town in my eyes. Not sure on a third probable townie, again, I should really go back and do a quick PBPA of each player and update my town list and my not-so-town list.

Mentions not attacking Navy again. Calls himself paranoid. [224]

Goes against the diddin's "No Lynch" suggestion. The only pro-town move I've seen. [226]

Disagrees that paranoia is scum-like. Well, not necessarily disagrees, technically he just asks why it's scum-like, but that was his defense against it and he is inferring that it's not scumlike. [235]

Making sure that people know he's not suspicious of Navy again. [242]

Still stuck on his OMGUS vote on me during RVS and his only defense against it is "its n0t OMGUS GuyZ!1!!11!!" Also defends his noobclaiming again.

Tries to call out that Navy might be scum for asking about pro-town players, as if that would give him NK candidates. Don't like it. [252]

OVERALL

He's the scummiest player out there. He has done absolutely nothing to benefit the town and is only concerned with his own safety

(VERY scum-like)

. He constantly noobclaims even when called on it. He attacks anyone who calls suspicion onto him with little regard to logic or truth.

His suspicions are based on the most obvious scum-tells and his pro-town list consists solely of players who post content and that he's familiar with. It's not well thought out. In fact, none of his posts seem well thought out, he usually responds to suspicion immediately and with poor defense.

Vote RichardGHP

[Annachie]

The only new things I see suspicious are Richard trying to distance himself from Nvay so that in case Nvay flips scum Richard can try to say he wasn't involved in it (if Richard is scum). That's the only other thing I found suspicious about Richard though; my points about him in post 223 still apply

How about Richard trying to distance himself from Navy so that if Richard flips scum, a lynch more likely to happen, Navy wont be dragged down as a scum buddy?

Thoughts on that scenario TL?

[NavyCherub]

Something everyone missed. Richard mentions "not attaking Navy" in this post 5 pages before the mention that everyone is calling out.

Also mentions previous mafia game... again... and calls out the most obvious scum tell he can find

(the 7 way FoS)

. [124]

I thought that was the post everyone was talking about? Seemed like the most relevant one to me.

Tries to call out that Navy might be scum for asking about pro-town players, as if that would give him NK candidates. Don't like it. [252]

I actually asked what he thought of as pro-town characteristics in response to him not finding content to be necessarily pro-town. He pretty much avoided the question by saying he doesn't have enough experience and he can't trust anyone, which is basically all fluff in an attempt to avoid commitment to an opinion.

You seem to have it all right, Fugitive. I'm willing to

unvote

and vote

RichardGHP

at this point.

[Bogre]

The only new things I see suspicious are Richard trying to distance himself from Nvay so that in case Nvay flips scum Richard can try to say he wasn't involved in it (if Richard is scum). That's the only other thing I found suspicious about Richard though; my points about him in post 223 still apply

How about Richard trying to distance himself from Navy so that if Richard flips scum, a lynch more likely to happen, Navy wont be dragged down as a scum buddy?

Thoughts on that scenario TL?

I find it easier to believe that he was wary to attack someone he thought was protown, and who thought he was scummy, than distancing from a scumbuddy.

[InflatablePie]

@Fugi: Concerning 124 not being picked up on for 5 pages, see 128. I mentioned it, but I didn't run into "Fridge Brilliance" until 244.

If Richard is scum, Navy can also be scum due to the fact that Richard, an "inexperienced" player, is distancing himself from Navy.
However, this can also be seen as a scum tactic to get a townie lynched. That goes into WIFOM, though. Personally, I'm going to buy into Richard being a newbie, thus he wouldn't even think of doing something like that. If Rich is scum, I'd lean towards Navy being scum.

Fugi, that is fairly good reasoning. I'll wait to hear responses to your analysis, but I'm considering switching to Richard. I'm pretty sure he has 4-5 (?) votes on him now, so there's enough pressure for a response. Depending on said response, I may or may not change my vote.