Open 188 - Tweed Mafia - Over!

[Zachrulez]

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

I'm thinking this would be a terrible idea.

[XScorpion]

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

Wow obvscum?

[KittyMo]

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

Today, I want to hear more from:
* Jazzmyn
* Locke Lamora
* nhammen

And now would be a good time to reread the thread. >> Back at a later date with more content.

[Zachrulez]

Awww...

That blinking text is awesome and all... but what would have really been awesome is if you voted Lowell.

[Lowell]

You guys are idiots. It's just a suggestion. How bad at this game do you think I am?

vote zach

. This guy is unbearable and obvious.

[farside22]

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

I'm thinking this would be a terrible idea.

I think lowell it suggesting what I have seen as a hypoclaim.
IE: Each person say I investigated X player and got X results.
This helps protect the cops from outing their results directly and leaves a breadcrumb for the town incase the cop is killed during the night.

[Lowell]

^^^ This sounds more or less like what I was thinking, yes. I didn't recall it having a name.

[Zachrulez]

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

I'm thinking this would be a terrible idea.

I think lowell it suggesting what I have seen as a hypoclaim.
IE: Each person say I investigated X player and got X results.
This helps protect the cops from outing their results directly and leaves a breadcrumb for the town incase the cop is killed during the night.

It's still a terrible idea and it's still role fishing.

[Zachrulez]

By the way, this idea is not new.

This is one of the games such a tactic was attempted.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10191

Pretty easy to see how it ended.

[Zachrulez]

You guys are idiots. It's just a suggestion. How bad at this game do you think I am?

vote zach

. This guy is unbearable and obvious.

Your vote is unbearable and obvious.

You gave yourself away by calling for my lynch yesterday while maintaining support of the suave wagon. If you were really a townie trying to lynch the person you found most suspicious, you would have been actively trying to push my bandwagon rather than simply waiting for it to be the largest viable one.

[farside22]

By the way, this idea is not new.

This is one of the games such a tactic was attempted.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10191

Pretty easy to see how it ended.

I know it's not a new idea. I can think about 3 games I recall that did this idea. I don't see how it's role fishing. He's not asking the cops to claim, he's suggesting everyone do a claim so when/if a cop dies the town is left with some information.
However with a player that can change a players alignment if this idea helps the cop see any discrepancies with their own results later in the game. Or if it will just confuse the town more.
Either way I'm not for the idea just not seeing it as role fishing per se.

[Zachrulez]

Well farside, think about it this way.

If we were to hypoclaim, the scum could look at all the hypoclaims knowing exactly what results make sense and what results don't.

So pretty much what is going to happen is that the cop's results are going to make sense no matter what if they tell the truth about the results they received from the mod, and more than likely at least some of the vanillas are going to claim results that make no sense and the scum are going to instantly know it, and cross their name off the list of potential cops. (Which is exactly what the scum are hoping for.)

Hence rolefishing.

[Nikanor]

I'm going to wait to see what MrSuave has to say before I lay a vote down, but this:

You gave yourself away by calling for my lynch yesterday while maintaining support of the suave wagon. If you were really a townie trying to lynch the person you found most suspicious, you would have been actively trying to push my bandwagon rather than simply waiting for it to be the largest viable one.

Makes a Lowell+Suave team look pretty delectable.

Also, Zach is right about the cop claims, obviously. This discussion should stop now, as it only gives opportunity for the cops to slip up.

[MrSuave]

hello again Jazzmyn! welcome to the game! any kind of mass claim is bad IMO. it always makes things more confusing. having 2 cops is good enough. with them scum hunting goes out the window >_>

[farside22]

Well farside, think about it this way.

If we were to hypoclaim, the scum could look at all the hypoclaims knowing exactly what results make sense and what results don't.

So pretty much what is going to happen is that the cop's results are going to make sense no matter what if they tell the truth about the results they received from the mod, and more than likely at least some of the vanillas are going to claim results that make no sense and the scum are going to instantly know it, and cross their name off the list of potential cops. (Which is exactly what the scum are hoping for.)

Hence rolefishing.

Idk I was in a game where I was scum and it wasn't obvious who was faking but some were easy to tell so yeah I can see it as helpful to scum but just as confusing as well.
I don't support it for this game do to the WIFOM factor, but even when I suggested it as town in one game and scum in the other I never looked at it as role fishing. It's a good point you have and a reminder to me in future games to think more about this suggestion.

[Jazzmyn]

Hello, all

I’ve played with many of you before (farside, Lowell, MrSuave, Nikanor, StrangerCoug, and Zach) but there are some new (to me) faces as well. So, "hello again" to those I've played with before, and "pleased to meet you" to the rest of you (KittyMo, Locke Lamora, nhammen, and XScorpion).

As the game mod mentioned, I was on standby just in case Jason had to replace out. So, I have read through the game previously and my game notes are well underway. (My very best wishes to Jason, whose personal circumstances, as I understand it, are quite difficult at present). I’m almost up to date on the thread. Although I do want to do one more read-through now that I’m actually in the game. So, that's what I'm going to do. Certainly shouldn’t take me too long. And once I’ve done that, and updated my game notes, I will be ready to jump in.

Off to re-read now and will post post my thoughts, reads, etc. before long. Best estimate: probably late tonight. Possibly even sooner.

Regards,
Jazz

[StrangerCoug]

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

What!? We don't need them outed yet. They can do just fine hidden. I don't care if we all claimed "I investigated X and got a Y on them".

You guys are idiots. It's just a suggestion. How bad at this game do you think I am?

vote zach

. This guy is unbearable and obvious.

Once again, what!? This is OMGUS out the wazoo.

Vote: Lowell

[farside22]

You guys are idiots. It's just a suggestion. How bad at this game do you think I am?

vote zach

. This guy is unbearable and obvious.

I missed the OMGUS vote.

FOS: Lowell

Starting to think you are acting out because your idea got shot down by zach and scorpion.

[Nikanor]

Anything useful you have to say, MrSuave? Maybe a vote to put down?

[nhammen]

Wouldn't it be better to think of the possible motives for yabbaguy's death first?

Ummm... from what I've seen, in games that scum know there is a power role, they go after people giving off PR tells first. Players that have the scumteam pegged or are so town they are practically confirmed are second. So, the question is whether or not the scum could plausibly have seen PR tells from yabbaguy, or any other player. I have never been able to spot PR tells, but I would guess that was the reason.

I tend to find that night-kill speculation just leads to WIFOM and nothing useful for town. If you want to discuss it, go ahead, but I'm still gonna put my vote back where it was. As for yabbaguy, I'm convinced that his death was as simple as him being seen by scum as the most pro-town player.

I have seen a game lost because scum were able to A) kill all of the players targeting them (after first killing the PRs) and B) convince the town not to speculate on NKs, even though a lot of the NKed players happened to have been suspicious of the same players. So I will never outright ignore possible reasons for an NK. This early in the game, scum were probably targeting for PR tells, so this gives not much information.
Just in case he was killed for some other reason, I will speculate here. (Note, this means nothing at this point, but may be turn out to be important later on) He may have been killed because he was suspicious of a member of the scumteam. He was suspicious of farside, SC, and zach to a lesser extent from ISOing him. So that gives a 1/3 chance of each of these players being scum... which is barely more than the 3/10 that all players have right now. And that is with ignoring any scumtells that come along. But as I said, he was probably killed for the purpose of hunting for PRs.

I'm much more interested in if there were any successful investigations (indicating scum).

If there are any, I'm sure they have their own ideas of how to handle them.

Any chance we should do some sort of mass copclaim situation? Can we use two cops to our advantage here or what?

All I have heard about hypoclaim is arguments against it.

[Lowell]

It's not clear to me why SUGGESTING a hypoclaim is scummy. I for one think it would be a good idea, and there might be others out there as well if not for the power of the mob to shoot the idea down before even knowing what I'm talking about. There are a lot of twitchy players out there and I don't like it.

If Suave and I are scum, whatsay we lynch Suave first, okay?

@farside- I am acting out... a little. The way zach clings to the mindless accusations on me suggest to me that he's scum. In ISO I've yet to see him do anything without mass public support, which is not exactly the most townish behavior.

[farside22]

It's not clear to me why SUGGESTING a hypoclaim is scummy. I for one think it would be a good idea, and there might be others out there as well if not for the power of the mob to shoot the idea down before even knowing what I'm talking about. There are a lot of twitchy players out there and I don't like it.

If Suave and I are scum, whatsay we lynch Suave first, okay?

@farside- I am acting out... a little. The way zach clings to the mindless accusations on me suggest to me that he's scum. In ISO I've yet to see him do anything without mass public support, which is not exactly the most townish behavior.

The fact is both zach and scorpion says it was scummy.
kittymo called it role fishing. Why are you attacking zach only on this?

[Nikanor]

Off to re-read now and will post post my thoughts, reads, etc. before long. Best estimate: probably late tonight. Possibly even sooner.

Liar.

[Jazzmyn]

Something came up unexpectedly so I wasn't able to complete this last night, but I'm good to go now. I will have a substantive post up in a couple of hours.

Regards,
Jazz

[StrangerCoug]

Something came up unexpectedly so I wasn't able to complete this last night, but I'm good to go now. I will have a substantive post up in a couple of hours.

Regards,
Jazz

*looks at watch* About twenty minutes left by my count, unless the unexpected happens again.

And Nikanor, I don't think this is the first time Jazzmyn's done something like this. I'm not ready to call it a bad thing right now, though.