Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[Pomegranate]

The case on Pome is that she is not a very energetic scumhunter.

But for anyone who knows my meta, I don't scumhunt energetically.

I'm not saying that this is an excuse, but I usually procrastinatein regard to scumhunting. If you'd like, you can meta me. I have links to all my games on my wiki page.

[Glork]

Unvote, Vote: Pom

Changed my mind. Woke up this morning and realized (remembered, rather) that Alma made a post that makes me feel that he is probably protown. At the very least, lynching Alma today is a terrible idea. There's a very good chance that lynching him ever is a terrible idea.

[Fishythefish]

Have a catchup. Throughout, I’ve only looked at the game up to the point I’m at when commenting/answering, so what I say may be made less relevant by later events, and/or be repetition of what others have said. Sorry if this annoys anyone, I find it much easier to catch up this way.

@Fishy
{quote snipped}
Do you think Iec and SSK could both be scum, and this could just be aggressive distancing/bussing?

Unlikely, but possible – bussing of this serious, potentially lynch provoking kind is pretty rare.

I dislike the sequence of Pome-votes (305-7). It’s pretty odd that she wasn’t able to review/quote properly before posting, but this is just not the kind of thing I would ever assume is made up. Iec’s vote is horrible for a different reason – as I see it, his thoughts on Pome go:
302: Who knows anything about Pome? I’ll think about her after her next post.
307: I said I’d wait for Pome to post before voting, and she posted,

vote

I think that 307 was iec wanting to jump on the wagon, and claiming to have given a reason before when he hadn’t. It stinks.

FoS SSK, JL, iec

for this.

SP’s 316 and 323 are interesting.

In iec’s argument with UK, the former seems to be totally wrong. And trying to claim that an argument is 2Town4Town when it isn’t is both misrepping

and

claiming you are very town.

In my opinion, your past actions and trying to look townie should impact only a tiny on you play – I do sometimes check to see whether things I’m about to post conflict wildly with things I’ve said before. If they do, I think about why that is, and try to explain it. Similarly, I’d try to make sure that a vote that could be perceived as OMGUS is particularly well explained. I think not voting for someone because they are voting for you is scummy.

Vaya 356: Criticises JL for pretty much the same reason I do above. AFAIC, SSK is just as guilty of this, in the previous post. Why no comment on him?

Almaster’s attack on this point is interesting. Vaya attacks JL, and Almaster launches an impressive chainsaw at Vaya:

I don't think JL's reason for joining the Pom wagon was bad at all. Seems very applicable to me.

No, I'd say it was pretty bad. Pom claimed that she couldn't make a better post at the time do to having issues with the site, which seems understandable enough to me. I don't see any grounds for assuming she is lying or just using it as an excuse not to contribute much, and not that she's simply being honest about.

Also, it seems like he's just piggybacking SSK's reason for adding a pressure vote to Pom with his vote. All in all, that last vote of his just feels to me like scum jumping on a wagon.

IIRC, the solution to that problem was called Notepad.exe. Or Microsoft Word. Or Google Docs. Or any text editor ever. The excuse was bad, stop defending it. If one of you flips scum I wouldn't be surprised if the other did too. Moreover, it's not like Pom has done more scumhunting now that the problem is fixed - the situation is the same. Now, I'm not saying JL is acting town at all - he's not. However, I am willing to give him a chance (e.g., a day or two) to post again before I switch my vote.

I still think that the attacks on Pom, including this one, are odd, because I just can’t see Pome’s excuse as something scum would do because they can’t be bothered to actually post. But even beside this, Almaster didn’t comment at all at the time of Pome’s defence. When JL was attacked, he reacted by linking Vaya to Pome. This is horrible. It looks like a tactic to scare Vaya off JL, particularly as Pome isn’t the most protown player.

My problem with Pome’s case on Almaster is that none of the things she cites Almaster for are actually good scumtells (particularly hypocrisy, in this form – just because I haven’t posted any content in 10 pages doesn’t mean I think it’s acceptable for other people to do the same). However, I agree that Almaster hasn’t done much scumhunting.

My problem with Almaster’s response is that it’s pretty much a blatant misrep. Which is fun, because it really didn’t need to be. Almaster accuses Pome of hypocrisy, because she is criticising his lack of posting. This is false, because Pome’s actually attacking his hypocrisy. He then says “Basically, what SSK said” – but SSK said that hyprocrisy isn’t a good scumtell. To then attack Pome for hypocrisy is a conflict, and this suggests to me that Almaster saw a defence of him and jumped on it without worrying about what it said.

The amount of scumhunting I've done > The amount of scumhunting you've done.

This is no defense, and doesn’t feel like something that town would write.

I think speculation about what SB should do is a bit weird. She knows that position, and with her role the flavour surrounding it is clearly absolutely vital to how she uses it.

Scumlist:
- JL. Poor attack on Pome, combined with active lurking.
- iec (particularly with Vaya). For some http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 55#2023555 old reasons, for the poor attack on Pome, for the misrepping of UK, and just because my gut screams he is scum. I really can’t pin this gut feeling down. On my to do list.
- Pome. For actively lurking.
- Almaster. Chainsaw defense of JL.
(- Vaya. Fits very well with JL and/or iec)
I'm up for a JL or iec lynch, and don't really mind which.

unvote, vote: Josh Lyman

[Glork]

My problem with Pome’s case on Almaster is that none of the things she cites Almaster for are actually good scumtells (particularly hypocrisy, in this form – just because I haven’t posted any content in 10 pages doesn’t mean I think it’s acceptable for other people to do the same). However, I agree that Almaster hasn’t done much scumhunting.

My problem with Almaster’s response is that it’s pretty much a blatant misrep. Which is fun, because it really didn’t need to be. Almaster accuses Pome of hypocrisy, because she is criticising his lack of posting. This is false, because Pome’s actually attacking his hypocrisy. He then says “Basically, what SSK said” – but SSK said that hyprocrisy isn’t a good scumtell. To then attack Pome for hypocrisy is a conflict, and this suggests to me that Almaster saw a defence of him and jumped on it without worrying about what it said.

The amount of scumhunting I've done > The amount of scumhunting you've done.

This is no defense, and doesn’t feel like something that town would write.

Scumlist:
- Pome. For actively lurking.
- Almaster. Chainsaw defense of JL.

Biggest fence-sit ever.



That said,

Unvote, Vote: Josh Lyman

[Fishythefish]

Biggest fence-sit ever.

Completely fair.

I think Pome's case was bad, and Almaster's response was a scummy misrep. That latter should have been included in my reasons for thinking Almaster is scummy. I think Pome's case is only slightly scummy - OMGUS fits better, and it's not a major factor in my read of her.

[Snow_Bunny]

SB, Alma has not claimed Miller. FF has claimed Miller. Alma claimed that he was a town-aligned Windows user who wanted to use Linux. He implied that there was a role out there that could give him Linux and consequently give him extra abilities of some kind.

I agree with UK/SB that JL looks like a good lynch target. But it makes more sense to lynch Alma, I think, all things considered. If someone strongly believes that lynching JL is better than lynching Alma, please make your case; maybe I've missed something.

Oh, then I was mistaken. In lights of this new evidence, I guess then I could try to convert scum tonight. Simple enough, if it doesn't work for whatever reasons (or I appear dead), you might want to go and lynch Almaster.

This wagon makes absolutely zero sense. I made that claim more than 10 pages ago and it's becoming a wagon NOW? And started by Pomegranate no less, who has been incredibly scummy up until a page ago (and is still scummy, IMO). Ridiculous. I have never claimed scum. I'm town. I speculated SB's ability might work on me. Turns out, after clarification, it probably won't. Do I find this incredibly suspicious on SB's part? Yes. Given her vote for me despite the possibility of conversion and the fact that her denial does not fit with flavor, I think it's highly possible SB is lying. Regardless, the point is as follows: I stated my position on speculation up front. I have never changed my story once. There is nothing scummy about what I have done.

Moreover, lets stop and think - even if I AM scum (which I am not), why the hell wouldn't you just use SB on me? That way, we get rid of the "claimed" scum AND get to lynch someone scummy. Win-win. There are NO downsides.

There are actual scummy posts and people in this game. Lynching me today is outright stupid.

This post is scummy to no extend. And this probably means that our current candidates (Josh and Pom) are probably town. *sighs*

Still, I prefer to risk with it and go with

Vote: Josh

. Phate's 446 sums it up pretty nicely.

[Fishythefish]

It should be noted that, if I can count, JL is at L-1.

[Josh Lyman]

Well, I hate being backed into a corner, but you guys have left me no choice.

You don't want to lynch me.

Who wants to ask me why? (Careful here, it seems to be a tricky choice.)

[Phate]

You're still alive, so start talking.

[UncertainKitten]

Well, I hate being backed into a corner, but you guys have left me no choice. You don't want to lynch me.

Who wants to ask me why? (Careful here, it seems to be a tricky choice.)

Sure, I'll ask why. I've been on you for most of the game, if not THE longest. What could you POSSIBLY offer that makes us not want to lynch you? Normally I'd include a list of commonly claimed roles at this point but I'd rather not give you hints.

[Iecerint]

Woke up this morning and realized (remembered, rather) that Alma made a post that makes me feel that he is probably protown. At the very least, lynching Alma today is a terrible idea. There's a very good chance that lynching him ever is a terrible idea.

Uh. Is this a post that you're in a position to share with us, or is said post only interpretable via "Official Information?"

I'm kind of shocked that more people aren't excited about lynching Alma. (Are people just assuming the latter above?) Anyway, JL's my second-favorite choice, so I can hammer him if it comes to it. I'd prefer to let those who haven't weighed-in yet (just SSK?) do so before his claim.

[Iecerint]

Nevermind. I figured it out.

I'm going to assume that that either clears him to you or that you're linked in a way that makes his misinterpretation of Alma's post sensible; otherwise, I think the implicit scum-as-of-D1 claim is hard to outweigh.

[Glork]

I think that Alma has a clause in his role PM very similar to mine, and I have reason to believe that another player might have a similar clause as well. That is enough for me to keep Alma (and that other player) alive until tomorrow, when we'll have a little more information to share.

[Glork]

Also, Josh, claim or die.

[Glork]

Also, limited access until Saturday/Sunday. Going to St. Louis for New Year's... unlike my trip to Virginia, I will have my laptop, but I will also be fairly busy during that time.

[Josh Lyman]

I am awaiting Mod approval for some phrasing in my claim.

[UncertainKitten]

I am awaiting Mod approval for some phrasing in my claim.

Oh, okay

[Iecerint]

Vaya, you've indicated suspicion of both Alma and JL, but you haven't posted for awhile. What do you make of current events?

[Iecerint]

Also,

SocioPath has not posted in 9 days.

I think I've noticed a similar pattern elsewhere on the site. Could be related to the holidays, but I don't think he's indicated V/LA.

SocioPath has now been prodded.

[Vaya]

Unvote

Vaya, you've indicated suspicion of both Alma and JL, but you haven't posted for awhile. What do you make of current events?

I'm in support of either lynch. More so of Josh right now due to this info Glork seems to have on Almaster, but otherwise, I agree with you completely that Almaster's claim seems like a scum claim. I'd be happy to have Josh hammered after his claim.

Also, I agree with what UK said earlier about Almaster and Pom being possible scum partners.

[MafiaSSK]

JL lynch will tell a lot of information about others. However, it seems there is enough interest in the lynch already for me not to vote.

[SocioPath]

I'm finally back from being gone. I'll catch up at some point.

[Pomegranate]

I think that Alma has a clause in his role PM very similar to mine, and I have reason to believe that another player might have a similar clause as well. That is enough for me to keep Alma (and that other player) alive until tomorrow, when we'll have a little more information to share.

[Pomegranate]

Sorry, that got messed up.

I think that Alma has a clause in his role PM very similar to mine, and I have reason to believe that another player might have a similar clause as well. That is enough for me to keep Alma (and that other player) alive until tomorrow, when we'll have a little more information to share.

I can't tell from this post whether or not you have any idea who this player is. Some parts make me think that you do, and some that you don't. If you want to clarify that'd be awesome. If not, okay.

[Pomegranate]

Also, Josh, claim or die.

Also, this.