Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[AlmasterGM]

Almaster, do you still think Snow_Bunny should target you tonight, given what she said above?

Hmmm...I'm not totally sure. I really want to hear more of a fullclaim from SB; I'm skeptical of this shifting, half-baked claim we have right now. The way I initially viewed her role seemed to mesh perfectly with mine, but now that she's clarifying, things are becoming more complicated and less perfect.

[Pomegranate]

I've been fairly busy recently, and I'm sorry for the lack of recent activity.

Pome, what do you make of Alma's request for alignment change, and do you think that affects how we should treat Alma? If so, how?

I don't think SB should target Alm tonight. I think she should either target the person she finds scummiest, or no one at all. I don't think we should treat Alma differently based off of what Alm has said so fer about his role.

You brought up interactions between SB and Alm. I hadn't thought about it, because I don't usually start looking at connections until D2, when there is information. But in the light of the information we have, examining connections could be of more use than usual for D1. Hopefully I will have time to get to it soon.

[AlmasterGM]

I don't think SB should target Alm tonight. I think she should either target the person she finds scummiest, or no one at all. I don't think we should treat Alma differently based off of what Alm has said so fer about his role.

...what? You are currently voting for me. Doesn't that mean you think I'm the scummiest player, and should thus be targeted by SB?

[Pomegranate]

I don't think SB should target Alm tonight. I think she should either target the person she finds scummiest, or no one at all. I don't think we should treat Alma differently based off of what Alm has said so fer about his role.

...what? You are currently voting for me. Doesn't that mean you think I'm the scummiest player, and should thus be targeted by SB?

Her role is very complicated. And I think you're scummy, and maybe she should target you tonight. But I think that not using her action, if possible, would be best, for N1. By "the person she finds scummiest", I meant that we can't control SB's target, and it's ultimately up to her, and we can't control that.

IMHO, if she targets someone, it should be you. But I don't think she should target anyone tonight. So I don't think she should target you.

[AlmasterGM]

Her role is very complicated.

How do you know what her role does?

IMHO, if she targets someone, it should be you. But I don't think she should target anyone tonight. So I don't think she should target you.

So you're doing a complete 180 on your previous advocacy. Ok.

More Pomegranate votes, please.

[Pomegranate]

Her role is very complicated.

How do you know what her role does?

I don't. I mean something like what you said here:

The way I initially viewed her role seemed to mesh perfectly with mine, but now that she's clarifying, things are becoming more complicated and less perfect.

That it's not entirely clear.

IMHO, if she targets someone, it should be you. But I don't think she should target anyone tonight. So I don't think she should target you.

So you're doing a complete 180 on your previous advocacy. Ok.

More Pomegranate votes, please.

The first post in questiont:

I don't think SB should target Alm tonight.

The second posts in question:

So I don't think she should target you [Alm][tonight].

What 180?

[AlmasterGM]

You left out the rest of your post.

I don't think SB should target Alm tonight.

I think she should either target the person she finds scummiest, or no one at all.

Your intentions are much less clear when put into context. I don't think that post suggests at ALL that you are 100% against SB using her power. Why not just say "I don't think she should use her power."? It's extremely confusing, especially given this:

IMHO, if she targets someone, it should be you.

[Iecerint]

I have an opinion on the subject, but I want Pome to give hers first. I'll say that I think your SB interaction is very important and Pome appears to have minimized it except to point out that it wasn't scumhunting.

Why did you want to hide this much?

I wanted to avoid telling Pome point-blank what I wanted to hear. Or do you mean something else?

I disagree with Pome about Alma. I think Alma's request for alignment-change targeting strongly indicates that -- contrary to his claim that SB targeting him will give townAlma abilities -- Alma is likely to currently be non-town. After all, this is what led to his request:

So, scums out there, I have this wonderful ability that turns scum into town. So, who's scum? Let me help you. It's totally free.

His recent Vaya-prompted backtrack also looks bad. What after this initial post could have possibly made the flavor mesh *less* well? The only way this initial post *could* have meshed well is if Alma is scum.

Dubiously excluding the UK/SSK/Vaya triumvirate, I think Alma is the most obvious choice. He's almost certainly currently scum, and SB's ability to convert him -- if it exists at all -- is probably compromised by her having claimed it. We're better off killing him now.

Vote: Alma

.

I should add that I don't like Alma in the recent Pome/Alma exchange. It looks to me like Alma is deliberately focusing on minutia of Pome's posts to bring out details that clearly weren't intended.

[Pomegranate]

You left out the rest of your post.

I don't think SB should target Alm tonight.

I think she should either target the person she finds scummiest, or no one at all.

Your intentions are much less clear when put into context. I don't think that post suggests at ALL that you are 100% against SB using her power. Why not just say "I don't think she should use her power."? It's extremely confusing, especially given this:

IMHO,

if

she targets someone, it should be you.

But you're also taking things out of context, like the last quote of mine in the quote of yours above. That right before this line:

But I don't think she should target anyone tonight. So I don't think she should target you.

I'll explain myself for a second time, stating my opinions for the third time:

1.

I don't think SB should target anyone tonight.

2.

Obviously, that's her decision. It can't be made for her.

3.

I think that if SB chooses

not to

follow

1.

, then she should target you.

***

My top choice of what SB should do with her action tonight is

1.

: target no one.

Clear now?

[Vala Mal Doran]

@Mod: Requesting replacement; work stress somehow has led to complete mafia burnout.

My most sincere apologies to all involved; I get home after a shit day of retail and the

last

thing I want to do is deal with what I realize now amounts to unnecessary additional drama in my life.

Best of luck, all.

[UncertainKitten]

Why did you want to hide this much?

I can think of several reasons, pending what she says in response to Pom

I disagree with Pome about Alma. I think Alma's request for alignment-change targeting strongly indicates that -- contrary to his claim that SB targeting him will give townAlma abilities -- Alma is likely to currently be non-town. After all, this is what led to his request:

well, I had been thinking about that, and thinking how wonderful it would be if Alma were claiming scum without claiming scum. It'd be a clever way to avoid lynch in the case that SB were running a gambit, and also a good way to get the scum a good test of SB's abilities.

Hmm. I have formulated a couple theories mostly based on Alm's flip/alignment change.

I shall wait until that to reveal them.

Dubiously excluding the UK/SSK/Vaya triumvirate, I think Alma is the most obvious choice. He's almost certainly currently scum, and SB's ability to convert him -- if it exists at all -- is probably compromised by her having claimed it. We're better off killing him now. Vote: Alma.

Apparently I never asked you this despite meaning to. Are you really calling me scum with the person who would HAVE to be bussing Vaya and claiming a day ability that he'd have to keep up for the rest of the game to live? And that Vaya was COUNTERBUSSING? And calling me scum because I derailed the whole plan? Logically, I don't think this triplet can even EXIST.

If you are reasoning I am scum for different reasons, I would love to hear them ^-^.

As for killing Alma now, I wanna see a few things first. Such as SB's ability.

I should add that I don't like Alma in the recent Pome/Alma exchange. It looks to me like Alma is deliberately focusing on minutia of Pome's posts to bring out details that clearly weren't intended.

Nyeh, they both look bad in my opinion, but I agree that Almaster isn't attacking the reasoning in the case so much as playing word games.

My most sincere apologies to all involved; I get home after a shit day of retail and the last thing I want to do is deal with what I realize now amounts to unnecessary additional drama in my life.

Allow me to give you an internets hug, and to wish you the best of luck in resolving that drama. I'm sorry real life is giving you troubles.

[MafiaSSK]

I think we should let alma get the alleged alignment change. It will help town.

[SlySly]

I am back from my trip and will try to sit down tonight and get an updated vote count as well as getting the replacement search for Vala Mal Doran underway.

[Iecerint]

Apparently I never asked you this despite meaning to. Are you really calling me scum with the person who would HAVE to be bussing Vaya and claiming a day ability that he'd have to keep up for the rest of the game to live? And that Vaya was COUNTERBUSSING? And calling me scum because I derailed the whole plan? Logically, I don't think this triplet can even EXIST.

You've misunderstood. I'm not postulating that you three are all scum together. For one thing, making that many connections D1 is obscene. Moreover, I don't think it's really feasible, anyway, for the reason you described.

What I meant was: "Given that we are not going to lynch UK or SSK or Vaya, I think Alma is the best choice." You have claimed that you have actionable intelligence that SSK and Vaya may both be town in spite of SSK's claimed 99% confidence interval. I think a claim that extreme merits a reprieve on gambiting the apparent 1/1. If you end up failing to come up with said actionable intelligence D2 or D3 or after Vaya flips or whatever, that will put us in a good position to judge your alignment, too.

I doubt that scum are incapable of messing up SB's ability, whether by roleblocks, bus-drives, redirects, or whatever else. That's why I disagree that we should take a wait-and-see attitude toward Alma.

[UncertainKitten]

You've misunderstood. I'm not postulating that you three are all scum together. For one thing, making that many connections D1 is obscene. Moreover, I don't think it's really feasible, anyway, for the reason you described.

Ok, understood. See, I recalled reading it earlier, thought I had responded asking you what it was about, and checked myself in iso, noticing I hadn't. Thank you for the clarification.

If you end up failing to come up with said actionable intelligence D2 or D3 or after Vaya flips or whatever, that will put us in a good position to judge your alignment, too.

Quite true ^-^

I doubt that scum are incapable of messing up SB's ability, whether by roleblocks, bus-drives, redirects, or whatever else. That's why I disagree that we should take a wait-and-see attitude toward Alma.

Considering at this point I would be removing 33% of our options for lynch, I can actually see your point.

I...could be convinced to join an Alma wagon, but it's not my top preference. I think Josh does indeed need to die soon. Pom...might need to depending on a few things.

[Iecerint]

Yeah, I definitely don't want to forget about Josh. Availability heuristic fail on my part.

I'd dislike Pome more except for her interaction with Alma.

[UncertainKitten]

I'd dislike Pome more except for her interaction with Alma.

I'm thinking about it and actually realize there's no reason to be cautious about my thoughts.

I actually think that they could possibly be scum together given that interaction. Both sides are just kinda "wtf?" to me. And not in a town v. town way. But I really have nothing to substantiate that, just a gut feeling.

[Iecerint]

The interaction could be better. I'm surprised that Pome would attack Alma without mentioning literally the most obvious scummy thing about him (except to indicate that we should largely ignore it).

I think Pome is unlikely to be scum with Alma, though, on the basis of personal speculation at how she'd play as scum having seen only townPome in Twilight. I'll glance through scumPome games to see if the evidence is there.

[UncertainKitten]

I think Pome is unlikely to be scum with Alma, though, on the basis of personal speculation at how she'd play as scum having seen only townPome in Twilight. I'll glance through scumPome games to see if the evidence is there.

As I said, I'm just guessing. I've won as scum by getting into nasty fights with my scumbuddies, but I know I can't apply personal meta to others.

[Glork]

Home, exhausted, procrastinating until tomorrow probably...

[Snow_Bunny]

Maybe I missed it because you guys post too much, but, what's the pressure on Pom? I think this is the second time I ask. Iecerint says everything's on page 10, on posts 232, 234 and 246, but I can't find anything there regarding Pom's scuminess.

Iec and UK interchange of posts gave me a town vs town feeling.

Unvote

. I still have my eyes on Iec, though.

@Almaster: Taking into account that the fluff of my role is NOT giving away free distributions of Linux, do you still think my power will work on you?

Vaya's continuous request for more info of my role seems fishy.

I'm getting a good vibe from Almaster, although his claim, upon a second look, looks really a scumclaim. Truth be told, I'd rather lynch him first than try to convert him (I rather lose a townie than create another scum). Almaster, if you are really town, then you wouldn't want me to target you. And thus, I ask again, do you want me to target you tonight?

I think we should let alma get the alleged alignment change. It will help town.

Ah, if you hadn't had claimed cop-something, I'd be voting for you now. Do you understand the risks of me performing my power on a town, right?

Vote: Glork

[AlmasterGM]

I'm getting a good vibe from Almaster, although his claim, upon a second look, looks really a scumclaim. Truth be told, I'd rather lynch him first than try to convert him (I rather lose a townie than create another scum). Almaster, if you are really town, then you wouldn't want me to target you. And thus, I ask again, do you want me to target you tonight?

No.

[Iecerint]

SB, the stuff on page 10 isn't a case on Pome; it's the drama where I voted SP. Its only relevance to Pome is that there's a possible Pome/UK connection, but isn't it a bit early to worry about that sort of thing, etc.

The case on Pome is that she is not a very energetic scumhunter.

I suppose you're going somewhere with that Glork vote? It doesn't really seem reflective of your post as a whole.

[Fishythefish]

An overdue catchup is coming in ~12 hours.

[Glork]

Beginning reading now. Expect something within the next 90 minutes.