Mini 901: Real Time Mafia (Over)

[Plumegranate]

/confirm

[Plumegranate]

Why did Ellibereth confirm twice?

[Plumegranate]

No, posts 6 and 10:

/confirm

/confirm

Why did you confirm twice?

[Plumegranate]

K.

[Plumegranate]

Hai manho! Hai Tony! Hai Vaya!

Ahem.

[Plumegranate]

I like Annachie's most recent post. I agree with it. Also, how would people decide which lynch is "better", if it isn't really a comparison?

I think Elli is a bit too obsessed with getting people to post.

And why aren't all of you participating right now?

It is anti-town to not participate in this pregame!

Quotes like these don't really help anyone. Upon seeing that post, I don't start thinking 'Oh, I must post immediately, because otherwise I'm being anti-town!'. You mentioned pre-game activity already. The only thing posting over and over will do is up your PPD.

[Plumegranate]

Not random.
CSL is a good policy lynch.

No ho ho.

I agree we should lynch about as often as we can, but keeping the scumkill-to-lynch ratio as optimal as we can get it also involves making good, informed lynches. Policy lynches aren't based on the likelihood of a player being scum and are rarely as worth it for anti-town metas as people say.

Pushing for policy lynches is rarely scummy in and of itself but doing so while pushing for keeping the lynch-ratio high is scummy.

I agree with my other fruit's point on Elli as well.

Vote: Ellibereth

. Or

PregameFOS: Ellibereth

. Or

something

.

I'm getting us an avatar tonight.

[Plumegranate]

DRK: Eh, I'm just recognizing the situation for what it is. It doesn't affect things one way or the other, because (as you said) Elli's still my top suspect and earning my vote when get one; this is just a way of saying that.

Policy Lynching = Scummy.

Reasons: Lynching a player you don't want in the game. Mostly a VT, whom, in the long run if you find yourself at lylo, you'd be wishing you didn't Policy Lynch.

tl;dr: Lynched player more than likely turns up town, and might cost the game.

That's why I think it's scummy, and thus earned my [Pregame] Vote.

Scummy or anti-town?

I other news, I hope you like the avatar.

[Plumegranate]

I grant you that on occasion policy lynches aren't anti-Town; I happen to think that this is rarer than you think. But anyway, what's the basis for saying CSL's playstyle is so anti-Town he should be lynched on sight?

[Plumegranate]

Out of curiosity, how many people here would agree to policy lynching zwet?

I guess it depends. But I wouldn't agree to it on page one, or very early in the game, probably not on D1. Possibly later, depending on his play, or the game situation in general.

[Plumegranate]

Go look at his history and read his posts. Or just skim any of his completed games. While you look for pro-town play, I'll be hunting for a purple boar that flies and eats flaming pineapples.

I know what you mean, but I still disagree.

But then again, in the only game this half has played with CSL, he was a jester. [Warning: Ongoing game.]

[Plumegranate]

@Plumegranate: Plum or Pomegranate in this game or both?

We are both playing, and we have both posted. But I'd rather if people didn't ask this type of question much anymore.

[Plumegranate]

The mechanics for this is not a normal game though.
We first place an "insurance lynch" on CSL on the immediate start of D1. This way, assuming we're unable to reach a consensus of lynching a player we deem more likely to be scum, the policy lynch for CSL can comfortably go through with no deadline rush etc. Especially since each day is essentially 7 days.
If we find someone more likely to scum, we can just switch our votes over.
I don't see what's anti-town about this strategy at all.

How would this hypothetical "we" decide whether if CSL is a better lynch than some other player? They can't be compared, because they aren't of the same category: one is a policy lynch, and one is a scummy lynch. What if players disagreed?

[Plumegranate]

The mechanics for this is not a normal game though.
We first place an "insurance lynch" on CSL on the immediate start of D1. This way, assuming we're unable to reach a consensus of lynching a player we deem more likely to be scum, the policy lynch for CSL can comfortably go through with no deadline rush etc. Especially since each day is essentially 7 days.
If we find someone more likely to scum, we can just switch our votes over.
I don't see what's anti-town about this strategy at all.

Whom is the 'royal we' of which you speak of anyway?

If/When he starts playing anti-town, are you guys planning to meta-excuse him?

Possibly. But that's meta. It plays a large role in scumhunting- get used to it.

I'll agree to not policy lynch him if we all agree to throw meta out the window for this game, at such a fast pace any anti-town play-style should be unacceptable.

I don't agree to that, and I doubt there will be a policy lynch on CSL anyway.

[Plumegranate]

To conclude what my other fruit just said: If he plays anti-Town, I'll try to get him to stop hurting the Town. If he plays scummy, I will vote him and try to get him lynched. It

is

harder to read people who

always

play anti-Town to begin with, but it is absolutely possible to do. I'll give CSL the benefit of the doubt until he looks scummy. Got it?

Elli, I love how you try to suggest a policy lynch, try to act like it's something we all want (clearly not the case), and then generously offer to trade it for throwing meta out the window (bad because meta is often very useful in determining if someone is actually expressing a scumtell and what personal scum/towntells are specific to a given player).

I dislike the idea of initially piling onto CSL all at once at the beginning of the day anyway; likely that we'll end up not agreeing enough and not doing enough about it because we have a (supremely sub-optimal) fallback lynch. Especially with scum manipulation, this could happen way too easily. Or we'll split onto different wagons (which will all be better than a policy-based wagon because they're based on scumhunting and will give us real information as opposed to information about players' Mafia theory beliefs) and when we can't agree instead of working things out, compromising, generating more discussion we'll believe that because CSL is thjust say 'but we agreed on CSL before' and fall back on it. Okay, the example was a bit repeptitive, but I'm frustrated at the very suggestion, which is akin to "let's immediately put anti-Town player at like L-3 at the beginning of Day 1 and scumhunt from there' - there are reasons, similar to what I've illustrated, why this

never

happens.

[Plumegranate]

A statistic complied on Dec 9, he has been lynched 44% of the time on D1 or the day where he replaces in.

So...

He has the same statistic of being scum as anyone else. What does the fact that he is lynched more often than other players change?

[Plumegranate]

It's an indicator of his overall past scummy play.
Someone does not get a 44% D1 lynch rate when their play is pro-town.

Yes. But it doesn't mean he's scum. How about you read this again:

If he plays anti-Town, I'll try to get him to stop hurting the Town. If he plays scummy, I will vote him and try to get him lynched. It is harder to read people who always play anti-Town to begin with, but it is absolutely possible to do. I'll give CSL the benefit of the doubt until he looks scummy. Got it?

[Plumegranate]

We will both be V/LA from this afternoon until Saturday evening or so. We will be V/LA at this time every week.

[Plumegranate]

Vote: Elli

.

I don't like the way he pushed a policy lynch on CSL pregame.

[Plumegranate]

I like the way Annachie thinks.

---

so we agree to get someone lynched when deadline come, let's resume our scum-hunting.

i think elli is innocent for starting the bandwagon, and DRK is scum for supporting it.

You make no sense.

[Plumegranate]

Just the tone I got from it seemed scummy. I can see how you might disagree.

Sorry, I just don't see it.

[Plumegranate]

As he replaced in on Thursday, and there was New Years and the weekend in between, and the game didn't officially start until yesterday, I don't think it's that scummy.

[Plumegranate]

So far Annachie isn't scum.

Elli has placed three posts on this page alone. He's still scum, just now he votehop!

[Plumegranate]

Scumlist:

Elli- is getting better. Keep playing well and there will be an Unvote.
Malp- Scummy posts which has been elaborated on.
DRK- Also scummy.

Juls is town.

[Plumegranate]

Pro-town? Setting up the lynch of a player, who has done nothing yet, in case we can't find someone "better" is pro-town for you? I do not believe that lynching just for the sake of meeting a 7-day deadline is pro-town.

But not taking advantage of an additional town-directed kill would not be useful.

With three days until "deadline" I will likely be sticking with DRK but mal/CSL has solidified as a backup choice for me.

Juls summarizes my thoughts exactly. SB comes next.

Elli isn't on my list (IDK, it might still be on my other fruit's) because he seems pro-town, but I still think the policy lynch idea was scummy, and I'm not forgetting it.

[Plumegranate]

12 Alive

Snow Bunny ( 1 ) DeathRowKitty
DeathRowKitty ( 5 ) manho TonyMontana Juls Annachie Flareonage
bigmc109 ( 1 ) don_johnson
don_johnson ( 0 )
Ellibereth ( 3 ) Snow Bunny Plumegranate bigmc109
Flareonage ( 2 ) Bogre Ellibereth
Plumegranate ( 0 )
Juls ( 0 )
Bogre ( 0 )
manho ( 0 )
TonyMontana ( 0 )
Annachie ( 0 )
No Lynch ( 0 )
Total Votes ( 12 )

With 12 alive, 7 needed to lynch.
Next Lynch Available at: January 9th 00:00 EST
Lynch Will Be: No Lynch

[...] but policy lynching just to meet a deadline is not good. That town-directed kill will likely end up harming more town than scum.

Not police lynching, I'm entirely against that. Lynching, but without

as

much info.

Flare: At the very bottom of the page you should have an option to watch this topic.

[Plumegranate]

This is Plum, brief notes on a brief reread.

SB gives me gut scum feelings, probably really null.

DRK's comment about what little Vaya had posted being scummy when Vaya

hadn't posted at all

is hella scummy.

Unvote; Vote: DRK

. The response is even scummier. Yes, you can argue that not posting during the pregame is scummy (I'll remain unconvinced it's not among the weakest of scumtells, but that's a different story). You cannot argue that Vaya's posted little and what she's posted was scummy if all she posted was "/confirm". That's the most null thing a player could possibly post. You didn't say his lack of posting was scummy; you said the actual provided content is scummy. Misrep and the backpedal-wimpiness + sudden vote on attacker is majorly scummy.

Bogre's defense of DRK in this is noted.

is a random lynch better than a no lynch?

if random lynch is better, then we should get someone over the lynching criteria first.

Is a Day influenced by having an easy default policy lynch/random lynch better or worse than a day without? I say potentially worse. Theory-wise, I disagree. I'd rather that our competing wagons are on people that others find scummy, not random players. Pretty sure this is a null policy disagreement, though.

Just the tone I got from it seemed scummy. I can see how you might disagree.

The tone of a neutral "/confirm"? You should also be voting Juls, Elli, and me; and Annachie's confirm was only different in that it had a period at the end. I'm calling BS. And DRK does acknowledge that his attack, which he portrayed as serious, was abso-freaking-lutely ridiculous. Annachie's case on DRK looks good on scan, too. This doesn't preclude Elli scum at all; this is just more strongly scummy. I find it weird that Elli votes Annachie with just "didn't like his post at all" and no indication of the actual scumtells he found.

It's also in part what you wanted CSL policy lynched for.

I didn't want CSL policy lynched.

I beg to differ:

Chu chu chu!

Vote: Elli

Join our policy lynch wagon. It's more likely to get us somewhere than a wagon for Elli mixing up his games.

Policy lynching will net you my vote. Do not try it.

I'm on your policy lynch wagon. Do I get your vote for that?

Yar, scumbag. Even if it was just to stir the pot - no. Just no. It feels like an "I acted scummy to increase the info and get us out of the RVS" excuse, which is usually, as I indicated, an

excuse

.

To elaborate on the sparse stuff my sister gave: I for one don't read Malp as very scummy. I can understand someone reading the post in question that way, but I simply do not. It looks like something he thought was a legitimate scumtell on the part of DRK.

As the "other fruit" I still find Elli to be among the players in this game I suspect most upon one reread on Page 9.

I was gonna vote CSL and then I realized that I'm CSL /fail

VOTE: DRK

Partly random, partly OMGUS

Confirm Vote: Flareonage

Why do you read this as newb-scum as opposed to null-newb, please? Stupid =/= scummy (and I can't even tell that he's stupid, per se, any more than the average newbie).

SB's admission to not have the balls for real scumhunting, which amusing, makes me frown. Seriously. I'm a girl and my other fruit is a girl. We have the balls.

VOTE: DEATHROWKITTY

FOS: SNOW_BUNNY AND MAYBE ELLI

[Plumegranate]

We will both be V/LA from this afternoon until Saturday evening or so. We will be V/LA at this time every week.

[Plumegranate]

Well, since neither or my neighbors seems to care what I claim, I'm neighbors with Annachie and Snow_Bunny.

I seriously think one of them is scum and I've been flip-flopping over which one. I'm currently leaning Annachie. As a matter of fact,

Vote: Annachie

.

As far as what was said, there's been nothing particularly important. One thing that concerns me though is that I said I wanted a wagon on CSL, not a lynch, which Annachie has since ignored.

Mostly the discussion has consisted of:

1. Me describing what I'm trying to do
2. Annachie responding and giving his take
3. Snow_Bunny not posting

Also, yay me for wording my post in such a way that you didn't realize there were 3 neighbors.

Why did this post make everyone suddenly change their minds about DRK? In fact, from what he mentioned about the QT, SB looks a lot scummier. And in general SB seems scummier to me. Could someone please explain, because the only answers I see are ones like "Just iso him" or "He's just so scummy'.

ebwop:

vote: annachie

just realized we have a choice here. do not AT ALL like the fact that pluemgranate is going to be v/la around every single deadline for lynch.

Yes, I think it was a pain that I wasn't around for deadline too, but as Juls said, it's unavoidable. If you care to check it happens in all of my (Pom) games, as well as Plum.

But I don't think that we'll miss every deadline, only the ones in this game day. Once we have a night, everything won't be set to specific day (lynch deadline Friday night at midnight, for example).

Plumegrante post 51 - so disagree to the nth degree. When there is a game with a 7 day deadline have more post, talking pregame and getting things going is more pro-town then those just lurkering under the shadows doing nothing.

I didn't say that, if I recall, and I agree that more discussion is better. I said that posting "Post people, post!" won't really do anything.

plum post 173: Why do you state that Annachie isn't scum here? What makes you say this.

That was gut.

Question about neighbors:
Is two scum one town or all town possible configurations?

It's definitely possible, I just don't think it's likely.

DRK is town, Annachie is scum.

Why?

I feel no need to tell scum why they're scum.

This is the wrong answer.

Scum Reads

Annachie

(or reasons already given)

Where were the reasons given out?

(I know you're dead, but someone on the Annachie wagon should answer this straightforward question.)

Juls so kindly pointed out, I've already been bandwagoning left and right anyway

Well, it'd be great if you actually posted content. I know you're a newbie, but at least put in some effort.

Should we all switch to SB or not? Decide fast.

Well, I think the decision should be based off of who you think is scummiest.

I'm here!
Anna didn't answer my question.

Which question?

Hello scum-who-shows-up-right-after-deadline-is-over!

I thought the fact that he showed up just after deadline a bit odd too, as it happens.

BTW, something Annachie said in another game made me think he was scum here, but it's ongoing.

Now that you've made my position in every other game I am in untenable, I'm left with no choice.

Mod: replace out

What's up with this?
Elli, I think you should have just kept your mouth shut on that one. Saying "I think he's scum, but I can't say why"doesn't do anyone any good.

I like being a sheep

Well, no one else does. Do something.

--

Final words:

>Why did the Annachie wagon start? This isn't a defense, just me trying to get everything straight.

>Flare, Scumhunt!

>SB, I know you lurk sometimes, but I fing it scummy. I know that there are a handful of players who've lurked a lot so far- Tone, manho, Bigmac.... But that's not an excuse. The reason why I'm focusing on you here is because I find you scummy. Basically, Farside's 367.

Vote: Snow_Bunny

[Plumegranate]

But I don't think that we'll miss every deadline, only the ones in this game day. Once we have a night, everything won't be set to specific day (lynch deadline Friday night at midnight, for example).

Do we have a night? My understanding is Day 2 started immediately after the lynch thus each "day" will end Friday at midnight.

Yeah, you're right. I forgot about the nightless part.

^^ well, the only reason for sb to reveal her target in thread is for future use. if fish is town then she could reveal it in quicktopic, but then we have to trust fish with that info. more than likely, sb is the next mafia kill. i would rather have the info in this thread before she dies.

now lets lynch bigmc. plumegranate is now my number two target. the v/la is too convenient to ignore.

flareonage and manho could be lurking scum. if there is a vig, kill them please.

I see no reason for her not too, once she's claimed jalkeeper. (In response to SBs most recent post: I see your reasoning. If you don't want to, don't, as you know the specifics of your role and we don't, but I still think stating your past target, if there was one could be helpful. If you were jailing someone at the time of the kill, it could be of use. But ultimately, it depends on what info you have, so it's your choice.)

We are both V/LA in all of our games at this time, so I'm sorry if it seems "convenient". It's a pain, but it's weekly and that's that. If you want to check, you can see that neither of us has ever made a post Friday at midnight (at least in our timezone).

I find it slightly scummy that you keep pushing this forward. It's unavoidable, and didn't "conveniently" pop up right around the time the game started.

Flare and Manho are scummy, yes. Especially manho. He's V/LA until the 17th.

FoS: manho

.

So then you won't mind telling me who the third neighbor is

Flare, DO SOMETHING QUICKLY... LIKE SCUMHUNTING... BECAUSE OTHERWISE YOU MIGHT HAVE A VOTE THROWN AT YOU....

[Plumegranate]

Fine, you win.

VOTE: Fishythefish

I still haven't seen a false role claim so I believe you

Try again next Time.

I mean, seriously, you seem very very confused. Read the entire topic again, slowly. kthx.

This.

[Plumegranate]

iFeel Flare town.
P-fruit. what do you think about bigmc?
Need more wagon.

No.

Actually, I did miss him, so thanks for pointing him out.

All of his posts, except for one one-liner, have been about the early back-up lynch on CSL. Though I disagreed with it, there's still other scumhunting to be done.

Maybe

--

I'm having trouble deciding where my vote should go- Flare, manho, or bigmac. What especially troubles me is that this game was supposed to be fast-paced.

FoS: Flareonage, Bigmc

Unvote; Vote: manho

.

[Plumegranate]

I think Flair is newbtown over newbscum.

I have seen Flare as scum (the game just ended). He acted somewhat similarly, but I'm not that confident in it.

juls: i hadn't noticed manho. not good. not good at all. plum's v/la doesn't "bother me" as much as i find it terribly inconvenient and could easily see it as a scum tactic to explain deadline absenteeism. obviously this applies to manho as well.

I see you haven't checked to see that I have never ever posted around midnight, or on a Saturday morning (EST), and neither has Plum, EVER. (Yes, this is Pom.) I refuse to listen to any arguments about how 'convenient' this is until after you do.

I jailed the twin fruit, Pum.

Any reason why?

[Plumegranate]

I have seen Flare as scum (the game just ended). He acted somewhat similarly, but I'm not that confident in it.

Scum Flare = Total fail. I don't think I'm playing this game that badly

No, you're not. But in that game you didn't do

anything

but hammer. So though you might actually make coherent posts in this game, I also expect scumhunting.

[Plumegranate]

K.

[Plumegranate]

Shall I switch my vote to bigmac?

I played with him once as scum before, but I can't remember his play perfectly- I don't think it was that similar, or that different (I fund it hard to tell because of his lurking). The lurking is scummy in it's own right.

Upgrading my FoS to a (

Unvote;

)

Vote Bigmc

.

[Plumegranate]

I'd like to see Fishy's reaction ti Elli before my vote.

[Plumegranate]

My pm has a very clear list of the roles with guns.
Either zor screwed up or you're fakeclaiming. I'm inclined to believe the latter.
Fullclaim please.

Why does this not fit with Fishy's claimed role? He said that he has one vig shot, which could have cause the result you got in him. If there is a flaw in my reasoning, please point it out.

Pre-post edit: I see what you are saying, Elli, that JOAT wasn't on your list. I'm not sure... on one hand, the fact that vig was on Elli's list, and Fishy has a vig shot could cause a guilty, but JOAT wasn't on the list. I'm going to do more thinking about this.

[Plumegranate]

Post later tonight, hopefully.

[Plumegranate]

I don't think Fishy is scum. I'd rather lynch flare, manho, or possibly Snow_Bunny.

The fact that two PRs have claimed in the past couple pages is sad. This is D2. I understand why it happened, but I still think it's a pain.

I especially like Fishy's case on Flare- the large amount of votes vs. the small amount of scumhunting, reasoning, and original posting is scummy. The fact that he jumps on

every

bandwagon doesn't look good for him.

Unvote; Vote: Flareonage

.