890: Cults of Darkness and Shadow - Game over!

Heilograph · Post Post #500 (ISO) » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:39 pm

I might of missed something but why Faraday, would you pick SC over snowbunny?
I would also like to know what is your view of semioldguy, startransmission?
Snowbunny: what has changed since you analysis ? At first when i read that i believed you were against chaco, however it seems to be that you are against SC, any real reasons of that?
Magua: why again are you voting against stark? I feel that you have not really gave a good reason why you are voting against him. Also why not go with snowbunny instead of stark?

dramonic · Post Post #501 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:57 am

Sorry I didnt answer earlier...

My feel of snow_bunny is somewhat weak, borderline inexistant. I feel she's more scum than town, but I wouldn't lynch her in the current state of my reads.

Magua I used to perceive as townish, but something in his last few posts ticks me, can't put my finger on it.

I reckon I don't need to give a thorough explanation of who I think is the scummiest

dramonic · Post Post #502 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:00 am

However, considering it seems nobody is willing to go along and lynch Chaco, I guess I'll reread and find another wagon that possess decent value.

SerialClergyman · Post Post #503 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:09 am

dramonic is town, Magua probably as well. Convince each other you're town so we can hunt someone more worthwhile.

Heliograph - what's with the snow_bunny-centric nature of those questions?

Faraday, my vote

was

horribad, nothing much I can do about it now. Got two players with similar names mixed up. Mind you - I still voted the one that made them ore sense according to wagon analysis.

Having said all that, it's sort of like Snow Bunny's criticism, there's not much I can say to it other than shrugging if I get lynched for it, so unless you think there's something I've left unturned I'm just going to press on and look for a scum lynch.

About 6 million people have said they find snow bunny either dicey or scummy but she has no votes. I'm going to start a wagon, and I'm going to offer free cookies* if anyone is inclined to join me. Unlike Faraday and to a lesser extend DeathSauce, I don't get that she's actually interested in finding out whether I'm scum or not, rather is just happy to sit behind her 'slip', despite it being utterly unconvincing to almost everyone else.

*cookies will be limited to 5 and may or may not actually exist.

vote Snow Bunny

SerialClergyman · Post Post #504 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:10 am

Faraday is also almost certainly town, my meta of him as scum has him playing quite differently.

semioldguy · Post Post #505 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 5:52 am

Do I get cookies for already being on the Snow_Bunny wagon?

I noticed the same thing you had about people mentioning Snow_Bunny's scuminess yet all not voting her as someone else was their top suspect or for whatever reason. If people start hopping onto the Snow_Bunny wagon now, I'd like to know why they weren't here to begin with.

Magua · Post Post #506 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 8:06 am

startransmission wrote:Here's a comment- fuck you.

Ok, just kidding. Couldn't resist. What about my recent posts makes your vote on me seem more sound? Why are the other bandwagons (and that really only leaves the SC wagon) a lesser wagon?

Oh, man. And the mod had just asked for us to watch our language! =P

But since you asked: You're just too out there. People have definite reads on Chaco and dramonic and Snow_Bunny -- but no one seems to have a read on you. You're just very blah and not much else. semioldguy has a slight town read on you while you have your vote on him; that's about all.

Heilograph wrote:Magua: why again are you voting against stark? I feel that you have not really gave a good reason why you are voting against him. Also why not go with snowbunny instead of stark?

Snow Bunny is aggressive that I would expect her to get nightkilled. I don't expect aggressive play from mafia in this game until one of the cults is eliminated.

Heilograph · Post Post #507 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:42 am

Snow Bunnies posts, just cant figure out what her game plan is (if she has one). wanted to figure out what you players thought of snow_bunny, i feel that snow bunny is scum, but when i reread the posts over again i become confused.
I do agree with magua post about snow bunny:

Snow Bunny is aggressive that I would expect her to get nightkilled. I don't expect aggressive play from mafia in this game until one of the cults is eliminated.

Faraday · Post Post #508 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 10:40 am

Heilograph wrote:I might of missed something but why Faraday, would you pick SC over snowbunny?

At the moment yes I think I would.

Semi is probably town and I have a neutral read on Stark. I'd not actively object to his lynch but there's a couple of people I'd lynch before him.

Snow could you explain one more time how it's a slip on SC's part. Assume I'm mentally incompetent and explain it slowly and clearly for me please.

Faraday, my vote was horribad, nothing much I can do about it now. Got two players with similar names mixed up. Mind you - I still voted the one that made them ore sense according to wagon analysis

Wagon analysis is unreliable at best, if you'd found him scummy I could see it being another reason to vote for someone but voting them for purely that is rather silly.

Having said all that, it's sort of like Snow Bunny's criticism, there's not much I can say to it other than shrugging if I get lynched for it, so unless you think there's something I've left unturned I'm just going to press on and look for a scum lynch.

That's fair enough I don't see the point and arguing back over the same thing a lot, so yeah feel free to keep looking even if you're scum.

Snow Bunny is aggressive that I would expect her to get nightkilled. I don't expect aggressive play from mafia in this game until one of the cults is eliminated.

This I disagree with entirely, actually. I don't think it's indicative of alignment, especially since it seems mipe had a guardian that could protect him. Also I'm not sure she's been much more agressive than a lot of the players in the game, at least she was quite passive day 1 to me.

Also

probably V/la

over the christmas period etc etc. I'll be on and off now and then, depends on wtf is happening.

startransmission · Post Post #509 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:35 am

At the risk of having it appear that I am defending her, I have to say that I find the Snow Bunny wagon pretty underwhelming. I've been fairly neutral on her this game, so I went back and ISO'd her. The majority of her posts strike me as genuine town.

The only thing that I specifically don't like is her reasoning when it comes to SC. I don't find it super scummy because I see her reasoning, but I don't agree with it for reasons I and others have stated. Another thing that makes it less scummy to me is that if she just wanted an SC wagon she could parrot other players and slide onto wagon for those reasons. She seems to genuinely believe that her theory is correct. And while I'd be surprised, if SC ever flips Darkness she would be owed a hell of an apology.

Heilograph wrote:I would also like to know what is your view of semioldguy, startransmission?

On day 1 I had a mild town read. I agreed with him regarding mipe. His posts had content and there was nothing too scummy about them. On a reread however I have some issues. He comes in and votes for Seacore, who was the leading candidate for a lynch at that point. Nothing wrong with that, my vote was on him too. But his reasons weren't anything new. The buddying had been discussed to death and Seacore had already said his piece on it. He brings up that some of Seacores posts had an Appeal to Emotion flavor to them. Again, something that had already been brought up and addressed. He also called a lot of things scummy that could just be seen as differences in opinion, and labeled them as scummy. These are hard things to defend, stuff like "not voting is scummy" and "why do think it's a good idea to defend scum's ideal actions?" How can one respond to these questions other than just disagree?

Another thing that strikes me on re-read is how much time he devotes to preventing Datadanne from being lynched. When reading in ISO it really stands out. To be fair he was consistent on not crafting a double lynch, and also about his distaste for policy lynches. But still, it stands out. Especially in light of (what I perceive) the buddying between dramonic and SOG today.

All that said, I'd be surprised if my incant stays on him throughout the day.

Heilograph · Post Post #510 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:17 pm

I feel that snow bunny takes my incant, untill i truly figure out what about her makes me feel uneasy.

Incant:Snow_bunny

Snow_Bunny · Post Post #511 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 2:28 pm

Again, mod, connection issues here, so I'm kind of LA for now.

Percy · Post Post #512 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:28 pm

Incantation Count

SerialClergyman - 3 (Faraday, Deathsauce, Snow_Bunny)
Snow_Bunny - 3 (semioldguy, SerialClergyman, Heilograph)

semioldguy - 2 (Chaco, startransmission)
startransmission - 1 (Magua)
Chaco - 1 (dramonic)

The Ritual will take only 5 Incantations to complete at 6:00pm Monday the 28th of December (site time).

Note the deadline extension, Merry Christmas.

6 Incantations are currently required to complete the Ritual.

SerialClergyman · Post Post #513 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 3:41 pm

startransmission wrote: At the risk of having it appear that I am defending her, I have to say that I find the Snow Bunny wagon pretty underwhelming.

What do you mean by this? What's wrong with defending people you have a town read on?

startransmission · Post Post #514 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:46 pm

SerialClergyman wrote:What do you mean by this? What's wrong with defending people you have a town read on?

Nothing, but I'm not saying snowbunny is town. After reading back through on iso I found her posts to be... not scummy. That's probably what I should have said. This is my first game with these mechanics, so my wording is suffering. She may well be part of a scum faction, but I'm not seeing it enough to cast a vote. Futhermore I'm watching her wagon grow for reasons that don't really compel me.

semioldguy · Post Post #515 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 6:57 pm

startransmission wrote:After reading back through on iso I found her posts to be... not scummy.

Uh oh... quick! hide this line from Chaco!!

SerialClergyman · Post Post #516 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:03 pm

Uh oh... quick! hide this line from Chaco!! Razz

I lol'd.

Nothing, but I'm not saying snowbunny is town. After reading back through on iso I found her posts to be... not scummy. That's probably what I should have said. This is my first game with these mechanics, so my wording is suffering. She may well be part of a scum faction, but I'm not seeing it enough to cast a vote. Futhermore I'm watching her wagon grow for reasons that don't really compel me.

Not knowing is a reasonable state of mind to be in, but 'defence at a distance' is epic scummy. I don't want to be seen to be defending person X but (defends person X) is just an off dynamic, it's not very townly.

What are the things you are genuinely convinced of? Anyone who is town or scum? Any theories of the game? I find myself unable to find much definite in your posts.

Chaco · Post Post #517 (ISO) » Tue Dec 22, 2009 7:50 pm

semioldguy wrote:
startransmission wrote:After reading back through on iso I found her posts to be... not scummy.
Uh oh... quick! hide this line from Chaco!!

Your lucky I like you, Semi. Lmfao.

startransmission · Post Post #518 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:06 am

semioldguy wrote:
startransmission wrote:After reading back through on iso I found her posts to be... not scummy.
Uh oh... quick! hide this line from Chaco!!

That little debate certainly did cross my mind.

SC wrote:Not knowing is a reasonable state of mind to be in, but 'defence at a distance' is epic scummy. I don't want to be seen to be defending person X but (defends person X) is just an off dynamic, it's not very townly.

I'm not trying to defend Snow bunny in terms of what her alignment might be. I did want to point out that her wagon was growing, and for reasons I don't think are strong.

SC wrote:What are the things you are genuinely convinced of? Anyone who is town or scum? Any theories of the game? I find myself unable to find much definite in your posts.

As I said earlier, this is the first time I've played a game with these dynamics. It's tough for me to determine what is what in this setup. As Seacore brought up early in the game- towntells aren't necessarily towntells and vice versa. Frankly I can't see a way for town to be reasonably sure that another player is also town. So it's a challenge for me to be definite about anything at this point.

DeathSauce · Post Post #519 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:25 am

startransmission wrote: Nothing, but I'm not saying snowbunny is town. After reading back through on iso I found her posts to be... not scummy.

Doesn't surprise me in the least to hear you say that.

Mind sharing why you felt that way?

DeathSauce · Post Post #520 (ISO) » Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:36 am

In case I haven't made myself clear, my belief is that Serial and mipe are/were cultists, and Snow and start are also cultists. I would be perfectly happy to vote any one of them.

Serial is cult because of

1) Attempting to derail mipe's wagon
2) Bringing up selective scumhunting (look it up, it's a tell)
3) Repeated failure to answer questions about

how

we could selectively scum hunt. (If there was a slip, this was it).

The Snow/start thing I admit is tenuous, mostly gut and the lack of conviction they display toward each other.

Snow_Bunny · Post Post #521 (ISO) » Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:37 am

Faraday wrote: Snow could you explain one more time how it's a slip on SC's part. Assume I'm mentally incompetent and explain it slowly and clearly for me please.

*sigh*

Here we go again. There wasn't a Shadow NK. SC assumes for truth there's a town PR for that. A town can't assume that. Why? Because town can't possibly know who Shadow targeted last night (or if they targeted someone at all), neither know if the kill was stopped by a town guardian or a Darkness guardian. For all town knows, it can be either of any of these three possibilities: Shadow didn't submit a NK; a town guardian blocked the kill; a Darkness guardian blocked the kill. If go with logic, the first one is overruled, but that still leaves town clueless regarding the author of the protection. Unlike some of you who try to protect SC, it isn't logical to think that such author is town. Why would it be logical? And trying to outguess the mod is a no-no. Saying so is only a further proof of inside knowledge, that btw, only scum has. Well, returning to the main point, SC assumes for sure the guardian is town. Logic dictates that for him to assume that, he must overrule the other option, which is Darkness having a town PR. And, the only way he can overrule that is by knowing that Darkness doesn't have a guardian. The only way of him knowing this is that he is Darkness.

Look, other people have come up with different points to attack SC, and I acknowledge them and agree with them, but the main point of my attack is this slip.

And Heilo last vote seems quite opportunistic. Just jump in a wagon without solid reasons. Not good.

@Heilo: Regarding my plan, it's simple, if you call that a plan: Catch scum.

Faraday · Post Post #522 (ISO) » Sat Dec 26, 2009 7:44 am

Okay, I get it. DON'T SIGH AT ME MAKES ME ANGRY j/k.

Um that actually makes more sense now I guess. I think I disagree though, if he's assuming 2 man scum teams (and I think *Most* people agree it's the greatest likelyhood) then surely the Guardian has to be town, unless you think it's possible scum protected a town player (possible? idk I see not motive for it).

startransmission · Post Post #523 (ISO) » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:13 pm

Faraday wrote:Okay, I get it. DON'T SIGH AT ME MAKES ME ANGRY j/k.

Um that actually makes more sense now I guess. I think I disagree though, if he's assuming 2 man scum teams (and I think *Most* people agree it's the greatest likelyhood) then surely the Guardian has to be town, unless you think it's possible scum protected a town player (possible? idk I see not motive for it).

My feelings exactly.

Ok, so I've been mulling over whether or not to do this for a few days. Some of you have commented on how it's difficult getting a good read on me. That's been on purpose.

Claim: Town Dreamwalker

I investigated Semi last night, and had my investigation blocked. Hence my early vote for him, and my suspicion at the buddying between Dramonic and him.

I'm pretty confident that there is a town guardian. I know that if I'm wrong I may well be screwing town over. But here's the way I see it-

1. There was only one death last night, so a either shadow or darkness was blocked. I doubt that a cult group would protect a townie, thus it was a town guardian who made the right choice.
2. Semi being protected by town makes no sense for the same reason.
3. Semi is obviously in the Shadow cult. His partner protected him, and the kill they chose was blocked by an astute town guardian.

I may be making a disastrous mistake here, but I really think now is the time to do this.

SerialClergyman · Post Post #524 (ISO) » Sat Dec 26, 2009 2:51 pm

I'm wondering if it's worth getting the person who protected him to claim.

If noone claims then he's obvscum whose partner doesn't want to expose himself. If someone claims and they are faking, we'll have the scum team on a platter. If someone claims and they are not faking and it was a town block, we have two PRs exposed for nothing.

Either way, I completely believe the claim and so

vote Semioldguy