Mini 898: The Game (you just lost it)-OVER

[AlmasterGM]

First off, it's warrantless.

Thank you for the spelling lesson.

Anyway, that's remarkably stupid. I'm pretty sure everyone's vote at the beginning of the game has no justification. It's just that some people choose to dress it up with a fanciful reason.

1) The fanciful reasons are what give the RVS meaning. If you do nothing but throw a vote on a bandwagon and say nothing more, there's no point in having the RVS at all.
2) If it's all unjustified, why am I at L-2? Remarkable coincidence?

And bad arguments? I'm assuming you're referring to my only other comment besides my vote, which only stated your comment was useless, and it still is. You're willing to wager that out of 5 people voting for you in a 12 person game, that at least one of them is scum. Now did you just pull that from your Probability 101 book, or are you just psychic? Regardless, my comment holds.

All that aside, I'd love for you to show me an example of a good argument, considering that we're essentially on the first page of this game. It almost seems like you just cobbled a few reasons together to cover up a OMGUS vote. It's cute.

Congratulations, you've proven my point for me. If it's P1 and good arguments are not to be expected, how is it fair to accuse my posts of being useless? What am I supposed to say in response to a ton of votes with no justification whatsoever (which is the kind of voting you endorse, as per the previous quote). Your accusation is terrible - it's exactly the same kind of "dressing up" and "cobbling together" you say is bad.

Try again.

Dressing up so much fun though! Rocky Horror anyone? No? Spoilsports...
Almaster-4-Peabody. SolemnJ, Suffer, MrSuave
llamaeatataco-1-qax42
MrSuave-1-Torqez
qax42-1-llamaeatataco
Suffer-1-AlmasterGM

[AlmasterGM]

Oh yeah, and just for fun...

OBV-TROLL IS OBV.

[Peabody]

Haha, this seems to be getting out of hand.


I'm suspicious of Diamondilium as of now. His unvote of Almaster looked a bit hasty AND his logic is a bit wack. The real reason I'm suspicious of Diamond is this quote:

Aimlessly throwing around an accusation isn't helping. In fact, it seems odd to me that in response to the growing wagon on you was an accusation without a target.

I understand that no one has anything to go off of at this point, but don't you think this accusation is a bit stretching it out of proportion?

unvote; Vote Diamondilium

[AK47x2]

Apologies for absence. I think I'm in a different time zone to the rest of you.

Agreed, this is getting silly.

Also,

Vote: Diamondilium

because he was the first one to vote without giving any sort of reasoning whatsoever, which is a bit of a pet peeve.

[Diamondilium]

Haha, this seems to be getting out of hand.


I'm suspicious of Diamondilium as of now. His unvote of Almaster looked a bit hasty AND his logic is a bit wack. The real reason I'm suspicious of Diamond is this quote:

Aimlessly throwing around an accusation isn't helping. In fact, it seems odd to me that in response to the growing wagon on you was an accusation without a target.

I understand that no one has anything to go off of at this point, but don't you think this accusation is a bit stretching it out of proportion?

unvote; Vote Diamondilium

Ok my unvote on Almaster was because I didn't want things messy, or in other words a quicklynch. He was already at L-2, so I felt necessary precautions were to be taken.

Also, I fail to see how I used bad logic anywhere, please point out where.

On my quote, I wasn't exactly yelling "look how scummy Almaster is". I pointed out something that I felt was odd. The point itself was weak and I see where you're coming from when calling it stretching it out of proportions, but I didn't market it as something more than weak or odd. I have a question for you. Suffer made a similar comment about the exact same quote from Almaster but you only called my point suspicious. Why not his?

Also, Vote: Diamondilium because he was the first one to vote without giving any sort of reasoning whatsoever, which is a bit of a pet peeve.

However, I did have a reason and I mentioned that I did here:

Also, my vote wasn't random.

I suppose I'll go ahead and explain why I voted now since I've seen what I wanted to see. My reason for voting was based on post #29 of Almaster's when he posted a slew of questions for a vote that was seemingly random. It came off as paranoid so I voted him to give added pressure hoping that he was scum who would crumble under it. See, if I had mentioned this reason with my original vote it would mean Almaster would know how I expected scum to react and wouldn't necessarily react naturally thus skewing my reads.

Now on to my read of Almaster. Although I felt that his initial reaction to the wagon was odd, his stance and mindset (in particular) in his arguments against suffer leave me with a townie impression. First to note is his emotional self righteous indignation. He's appears to believe that arguments against him are without merit and its overwhelmingly frustrating for him. This behavior is townie. Another important note is vote on Suffer. Despite being annoyed and what some might call OMGUSing the focus of his vote was still dependent on alignment which indicates true scumhunting. So combining all my reads and notes on Almaster, I'm gonna put him in the leaning town category.

Suffer, why did you originally vote Almaster?

[AlmasterGM]

Ok my unvote on Almaster was because I didn't want things messy, or in other words a quicklynch. He was already at L-2, so I felt necessary precautions were to be taken.

Or you're scum trying to look townie by unvoting. This seems especially likely given that you said your vote wasn't random.

[Diamondilium]

Ok my unvote on Almaster was because I didn't want things messy, or in other words a quicklynch. He was already at L-2, so I felt necessary precautions were to be taken.

Or you're scum trying to look townie by unvoting. This seems especially likely given that you said your vote wasn't random.

Regardless of whether I had a reason or not, it would be terrible move to leave you in quick lynch range so early in the game. Clearly my goal wasn't to get you lynched but rather to read your reactions.

[rewq455]

I don't want things getting messy so

Unvote

.
MrSuave, why did you vote AlmasterGM and were you aware that you were putting Almaster at L-2?

Impressive. If there isn't at least 1 scum on this wagon right now I'd be shocked.

Who do you think that scum is? Aimlessly throwing around an accusation isn't helping. In fact, it seems odd to me that in response to the growing wagon on you was an accusation without a target.

Also, my vote wasn't random. [/b]

How wasn't it random?

[rewq455]

Ok my unvote on Almaster was because I didn't want things messy, or in other words a quicklynch. He was already at L-2, so I felt necessary precautions were to be taken.

I doubt that there are any mafia members stupid enough to hammer though. If they did, they would be lynched and we win

[Diamondilium]

How wasn't it random?

I posted the answer to that earlier.

My reason for voting was based on post #29 of Almaster's when he posted a slew of questions for a vote that was seemingly random. It came off as paranoid so I voted him to give added pressure hoping that he was scum who would crumble under it. See, if I had mentioned this reason with my original vote it would mean Almaster would know how I expected scum to react and wouldn't necessarily react naturally thus skewing my reads.

[AK47x2]

I'm with rewq. L-2 is too early to unvote just because scum could hammer. They never would because it would be a massive giveaway.

Also, I'm not sure what sort of scum would 'crumble' under being given a vote at a point in the game where most of the votes were being tossed around at random.

Not buying it.

[llamaeatataco]

Peabody: Yes. The point of the post was to not have a point.
...
RIP RVS I guess...
...

unvote

Gah. I leave for 24 hours, and now we have a wagon already going. First things first. The wagon: This is both bad and good... Bandwagoning on d1, especially if it leads to a quicklynch, would be extremely stupid. I don't know if the rest of you noticed this, but I find the heavy suspicion (overreaction) put on the bandwagoners a little weird. The reasoning is that bandwagons with no evidence are bad, and quicklynches are bad, so therefore scum will go for both. This is stupid. It's D1. If scum quicklynch, as someone said, they get lynched and we win. I'll be back in about nine hours with a real analysis, but the short version is this: If the scum are stupid enough to quicklynch on page 3, this will be a very easy game. The people that consider this a serious, important threat are overreacting. This includes diamond.

[MrSuave]

that is true, you are a pokemon. but it's not as daunting as a big bright pikachu. and your pokemon picture is pretty cute xD. at any rate... putting someone at L-2 in RMS, and how I feel. well I feel pretty okay with it. I was just randomly picking somone for a random reason, but if I really felt like pika was in imediate danger, I wouldn't have put my vote on him.

[Diamondilium]

Ok my unvote on Almaster was because I didn't want things messy, or in other words a quicklynch. He was already at L-2, so I felt necessary precautions were to be taken.

I doubt that there are any mafia members stupid enough to hammer though. If they did, they would be lynched and we win

Sigh, I've read too many games where both mafia and town have been too quick to hammer. It's not always necessarily that they people intend to quicklynch but also that they haven't been paying attention. I'm rather disappointed with the people rallying around me based on such a weak notion that only stupid scum quick lynch. In fact, I've even quicklynched some one as town: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showpost ... count=1337. I am dattebayo on that site.

Also, I'm not sure what sort of scum would 'crumble' under being given a vote at a point in the game where most of the votes were being tossed around at random.

I've seen it happen before, do you need links? Scum, especially newb scum, tend to behave incredibly poorly under pressure. This includes backtracking, making up unreasonable conclusions, not acting naturally etc.

[Torqez]

Except this isn't a newbie game, and I'm sure theres a tonne of experience here.

Ok my unvote on Almaster was because I didn't want things messy, or in other words a quicklynch. He was already at L-2, so I felt necessary precautions were to be taken.

This doesn't sit well with me. It's RVS, sooner or later someoen would have switched votes for another random reason.

Also, you have such an elaborate reason to be voting for Almaster at such an early stage, no?

Unvote. Vote: Diamondilium

[Diamondilium]

Except this isn't a newbie game, and I'm sure theres a tonne of experience here.

We've already had 1 person say they this is his/her first mini and a lot of players on mafiascum aren't exactly known for their quality of play. Furthermore, you can't be sure there's a ton of experience.

Ok my unvote on Almaster was because I didn't want things messy, or in other words a quicklynch. He was already at L-2, so I felt necessary precautions were to be taken.

This doesn't sit well with me. It's RVS, sooner or later someoen would have switched votes for another random reason.

Also, you have such an elaborate reason to be voting for Almaster at such an early stage, no?

Unvote. Vote: Diamondilium

Are you reading the thread, I'm not currently even suspicious of Almaster. Perhaps my explanation was long and elaborate but my reasoning was fairly simple: he seemed to be paranoid so I voted him to put pressure on him hoping he would break under pressure. Anyways, how is having an "elaborate" reason even scummy?

Quick lynching isn't uncommon. Even if you ( a collective you) think it is, that doesn't mean my unvoting could not have been me genuinely attempting to avoid a quick lynch. I've explained where I've got my cautious behavior in regards to quick lynching, so why exactly is it so hard to believe I was genuinely attempting to avoid to mislynch?

[Torqez]

It's not. But as far am I'm concerned, we're slowly moving out of RVS, but arn't quite there just yet.

For that reason, I'm fine with my vote on you.

[Suffer]

Suffer, why did you originally vote Almaster?

For reactions, and I hate the RVS. A bandwagon accomplishes both, so I contributed to it.

I have a neutral read on AlmasterGM right now, and scummy vibes from Diamondilium and MrSuave. The former for unvoting from the wagon, making it seem like he was being townie even though AlmasterGM wasn't in any real danger, and the latter for this:

I was just randomly picking somone for a random reason

And the random person you picked happened to be at L-3? I find it hard to believe that the choice was random. It just seems like you're trying to absolve yourself of fault for putting him at L-2.

[llamaeatataco]

I hate to burst your bubble, but the RVS is over as of... some time on this page. We have a discussion. Torq, you should probably know this, so it is interesting that you want to keep voting for someone for no reason...


Anyway... The way I see it is this: Diamond had no reason as scum or town to intentionally put someone in 'quicklynching range' d1. It could only lead to harm for either side. His reaction however is interesting. He apparently sees it as some great problem. I know I'm assuming rational thinking here, but the

only

danger he was in was of being seen as part of a bad wagon on day 1.

Also, the last post was weird. Suffer, why do you think he put it on him. Maybe to pressure him? A single vote (especially this early) Is not very pressuring. Also, your accusation, and the assumption that putting someone at l-2 is a bad thing, is strange. Also, the contradiction between 'even though almastergm wasn't in any real danger' and 'absolve yourself of fault for putting him at l-2' is weird...-er.

[Diamondilium]

Suffer, why did you originally vote Almaster?

For reactions, and I hate the RVS. A bandwagon accomplishes both, so I contributed to it.

I have a neutral read on AlmasterGM right now, and scummy vibes from Diamondilium and MrSuave. The former for unvoting from the wagon, making it seem like he was being townie even though AlmasterGM wasn't in any real danger, and the latter for this:

I was just randomly picking somone for a random reason

And the random person you picked happened to be at L-3? I find it hard to believe that the choice was random. It just seems like you're trying to absolve yourself of fault for putting him at L-2.

Can you explain why unvoting was scummy?

[Peabody]

Ok my unvote on Almaster was because I didn't want things messy, or in other words a quicklynch. He was already at L-2, so I felt necessary precautions were to be taken.

Also, I fail to see how I used bad logic anywhere, please point out where.

On my quote, I wasn't exactly yelling "look how scummy Almaster is". I pointed out something that I felt was odd. The point itself was weak and I see where you're coming from when calling it stretching it out of proportions, but I didn't market it as something more than weak or odd. I have a question for you. Suffer made a similar comment about the exact same quote from Almaster but you only called my point suspicious. Why not his?

I buy this explanation. The 'bad logic' portion I was pointing out was that you were stretching a point that didn't need to be stretched. Almaster wasn't just throwing accusations out there.

I understand now why you believe that people could and would quicklynch Almaster. You've seen it. You've done it. Can you post a link to show where this happened to you please? The reason we were jumping on you because of this is due to the fact that not many quicklynches happen on MS. I'm placing my

unvote

on you now.

I believe diamond's post 54 shows genuine scumhunting... especially within the last paragraph.

---

Peabody: Yes. The point of the post was to not have a point.

Did you read my questions? I asked:

I thought about not posting this, but It might make me seem less lurkish later on to have a higher post count (jk): Tacos are definitely a good nutritional choice for llamas. You can put pretty much anything IN the taco, and The taco itself is not bad for them.
---
On a more serious note, I'm probably not going to wall of text you people very often, but this game I'm experimenting with just trying to keep a PBPA of everyone saved on my computer and constantly updated. I'll probably get lazy and slack off though...
----
Also, because apparently we're supposed to give fake justifications for our votes here, I voted qax for not having a decent knowledge of a llama's nutritional needs, or the versatility of that fine food.

This post struck me as a little bit odd. I don't know if its your playing style or whatever, but this post just looks unnecessary. You said you were 'just kidding' about the less lurkish-ness and the higher post count. So really, why were you posting this?

Also, why were you debating posting this in your mind?

Llama: Please answer the bolded.

---
Torque's post 66 is odd. Thanks, Llama for pointing this out. How are we 'slowly' moving out of the RVS? The reason I ask is because once, while I was mafia, I placed a random vote just after the RVS ended. I had a lot of flak from that post. I'm returning the favor.

[Peabody]

at any rate... putting someone at L-2 in RMS, and how I feel. well I feel pretty okay with it. I was just randomly picking somone for a random reason, but if I really felt like pika was in imediate danger, I wouldn't have put my vote on him.

Mr. Suave: What was your reasoning behind bandwagoning on Almaster specifically?

[Torqez]

Because I don't see anything particularly scummy as of yet from anyone. I don't particularly believe Diamondilium is scum, but it's the only one thing I have at the moment.

For this reason, I could just as easily be voting for anyone else, as part of a random vote from me.

I don't see anythign else to change my vote as of yet, nor do I feel the need to unvote either. Hence not changing my vote.

And me saying "slowly moving out", also relates to the fact that a lot of people havn't changed their votes yet from their initial vote.

[llamaeatataco]

Oh, I kind of forgot... The post was mostly me just wasting my own time. I don't mean to vomit my own stupidity out on here, but sometimes it happens. I was debating it in my mind because it was pointless, but the RVS is supposed to be filled with pointed pointlessness, and it was a weak attempt at humor.
---
I think I'm just going to start posting my thoughts about the last post and any others that stand out, in addition to the crazy pbpa idea.
---
Torq, your last post essentially says this: I don't know what's going on, and I don't know why I'm voting, but I'll stay voting on this person anyway. Why is that? also, you contradict yourself here. You say that your vote doesn't matter, and it may as well stay where it is, and then say that the RVS isn't over precisely because of that sentiment. You are essentially saying that the random voting part is still going on, even though nobody is voting randomly, and people are likely going to vote seriously as soon as they get back. Care to explain?

[Torqez]

Torq, your last post essentially says this: I don't know what's going on, and I don't know why I'm voting, but I'll stay voting on this person anyway. Why is that?

Umm, no. My reaons here. Yet I'm saying it's not damning. I even say "I don't particularly believe Diamondilium is scum, but it's the only one thing I have at the moment. "

also, you contradict yourself here. You say that your vote doesn't matter, and it may as well stay where it is, and then say that the RVS isn't over precisely because of that sentiment.

What? I do have reaons for my vote. But like I said, it's not damning nor am I convinced he's mob. Hence the slow progession out of RVS. My vote may as well be random atm.

You are essentially saying that the random voting part is still going on, even though nobody is voting randomly, and people are likely going to vote seriously as soon as they get back. Care to explain?

What are you meaning? You yourself said we're coming out of RVS as of this page, here.

Also:

Torq, your last post essentially says this: I don't know what's going on, and I don't know why I'm voting, but I'll stay voting on this person anyway.

You say that your vote doesn't matter

You are essentially saying that the random voting part is still going on, even though nobody is voting randomly

Please don't misrepresent me. I never said any of these things. Infact, regarding the random votes, I even said "And me saying "slowly moving out", also relates to the fact that a lot of people havn't changed their votes yet from their initial vote. " right above your post.