Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[AlmasterGM]

Because it's far too easy to lose a scum lynch just because they claim miller. I should know. I've gotten away with it before.

So, using this logic, shouldn't we just auto-lynch anyone who claims miller? Why isn't your vote on fishy right now?

[AlmasterGM]

My point here is that we should lynch scummy people, not play follow-the-cop (or any other role, for that matter).

[Iecerint]

@Iec: Do you think that if SSK realized he was mistaken before he let on that he was mistaken, that he's scum? Or do you think it's more curious than scummy?

If SSK had said "my bad" before I called him out on it, that would not have been scummy. But I don't think he did. (Is this purely hypothetical?) This is how it happened IIRC:

SSK and Iec simulpost "Iec does this as scum" v. "I have never been scum."
SSK and Iec simulpost "I could've sworn you were ILYscum" v. "lolwat

Vote

"
Iec says he'll look into whether SSK's claim is feasible.
SSK retracts the meta bit.
Iec asks further questions about SSK's misremembered ILY.
SSK responds.
Iec posts a summary post.

It is possible that it was an honest mistake on SSK's part (e.g. he is kinda an amnesiac, etc), but he'd have to have forgotten stuff about his masonbuddy in a recent game.

I don't like Pome's level of involvement, but she wasn't really a star scumhunter in Twilight, either. Then again, that was her first game. Does anyone have more recent experience with her? I'll think about Pome after I hear what she comes up with.

[UncertainKitten]

So, using this logic, shouldn't we just auto-lynch anyone who claims miller? Why isn't your vote on fishy right now?

Sorry, allow me to elaborate. "Claim miller in response to a sanity guaranteed cop claiming a guilty on a player"

I'm generally in favor of claiming miller in your first post.

My point here is that we should lynch scummy people, not play follow-the-cop (or any other role, for that matter).

That I emphatically agree with.

[Pomegranate]

This post does not have as much content as I'd like it to, but in general my posts will hopefully be taking a turn for the better.

@Fishy-

@Fishy: Can you elaborate in your own words why you think a Vaya/Iec team is likely? Do you have anything to add to SP's thoughts on the matter?

Not much. While I dislike just using another player's argument, I find it very convincing - Iec's play reads like someone trying to derail the Vaya wagon, with his suspicions of SSK, subsequent attacks on SSK over the misremembering issue (which I still don't buy. The picture Iec is trying to sell is of SSK deciding to randomly throw out an accusation of defending buddies, and hoping it's true. I don't see anyone being that stupid), and his easy acceptance of UK's claim. The only thing I'd add is that I believed SSK was telling the truth, and I think that was the natural reaction (unprompted scum claims on day 1 just don't seem very likely)- so I find Iec's disbelief quite hard to swallow. Less relevantly, I feel similarly about his reaction to SB's claim.

Do you think Iec and SSK could both be scum, and this could just be aggressive distancing/bussing?

@VMD- I think it's definitely most likely that we have a scumteam in this game, though it's a bastard game. I think that's the general consensus.

@Iec- I played Twilight Mafia badly; hopefully my scumhunting has improved since then (I'm bad at judging it myself).

Pre-post edit: I can't make a post better than this ATM, because I'm having trouble with the site, and I can't set up a separate window to look at more posts. I'm sorry, hopefully it will clear up very soon.

[MafiaSSK]

Pom, use word then. You have no excuse not to make a better post than that. In fact, for pressure

unvote vote Pom

[Josh Lyman]

Pre-post edit: I can't make a post better than this ATM, because I'm having trouble with the site, and I can't set up a separate window to look at more posts. I'm sorry, hopefully it will clear up very soon.

Please. Even *I* could come up with a better excuse. You're not even trying.

Vote: Pomegranate

[Iecerint]

VoteCount, please.

I'm pretty sure Pome has 4 votes.

Vote: Pomegranate

. Now she has 5. That's L-2. I indicated I would wait for her next post before voting for her, and that was her next post. So. I'm voting for her. Doublecheck the count before you join in, please.

[Iecerint]

JL, do you think she's lying, or do you think she's inappropriately using that as an excuse?

Pome, if you could list your most recently-completed games as town and scum, that would be nice.

[Glork]

Ugh. On one hand, I think Pom is probably the best lynch candidate for today. But on the other hand, those are three really quick votes.

[Iecerint]

I would giggle a little if anyone L-1'd her at this point.

[AlmasterGM]

Ugh. On one hand, I think Pom is probably the best lynch candidate for today. But on the other hand, those are three really quick votes.

I agree that the day probably should last longer, but letting up pressure right now is a poor plan, especially given Pom's most recent badposting.

[Glork]

That's exactly why I'm torn.


Also, I hate when people say "pressure vote." It loses much of its meaning.

[SlySly]

Official Vote Count

Players needed to lynch: 7

SocioPath

- 1 - Vaya

UncertainKitten

- 0 -

Pomegranate

- 5 - Glork, AlmasterGM, MafiaSSK, Josh Lyman, Iecerint

Vaya

- 0 -

Josh Lyman

- 0 -

MafiaSSK

- 0 -

Snow_Bunny

- 0 -

Glork

- 0 -

Vala Mal Doran

- 0 -

AlmasterGM

- 1 - Pomegranate

Fishythefish

- 0 -

Iecerint

- 4 - SocioPath, UncertainKitten, Snow_Bunny, Fishythefish

Players not voting: Vala Mal Doran

[Snow_Bunny]

My point here is that we should lynch scummy people, not play follow-the-cop (or any other role, for that matter).

Me wonders why not. I mean, it was such a successful tactic for town that they had to come with an alternative (macho cops and roleblockers) so the game wouldn't be unbalanced.

Btw, what's the thing on Pom? You guys post too much, and I think I'm missing something.

[Iecerint]

I find it more than a little troubling that there are no votes at all on Vaya in spite of the implicit daycop guilty. O.o

Pome has been the most vapid poster today. I'm not convinced that it's a reliable tell for her, which is why I've asked for some samples of her more recent play.

[SocioPath]

I'm also torn with this whole Pom thing, but for other reasons. Reasons that I'm going to spend a while to ramble on about.

Now, I'm a player that enjoys a good meta, I've read and played in many enjoyable games in the past, and I (try to) remember things that people say and do and are know for.

But then, there is, from my point of view, another side, more of a 'personal meta' of classifying what I know about a persons play history, and then also jointing that with what I know about the person themselves.
This mainly includes the standard online information of ASL (Age/Sex/Location).
I find these attruibutes to be very helpful when determining how someone acts.

Location is a great thing, because you can learn to judge when they generally post, and can learn to expect things at separate times, and not things at other times. (See my previous post mentioning that we all are on different schedules.) Not only for timezone consideration alone, but also good for determining holidays, and school schedules. You would be surprised to how often I see players not consider that, and call people out for lurking when its a national holiday for the person whom is absent. Or people in the Southern Hemisphere (like Australia for example) having a different schedule when it comes to school, based on the different seasons.

Sex is an obvious one in that females generally are more emotional and will generally dislike more scathing attacks on them regardless of whether or not its personal. It could also be used as a form of manipulation, whether its male towards female, or female towards male, gender difference manipulation is something I've also seen a bit in games. Lots of guys treat girls differently, and lots of girls treat guys differently as well.

Age is something that might get past a lot of people. I can't speak for anyone else, because I've never seen this subject brought up before, but I also take age into consideration when dealing with people. I check every person I can to see if they have their ages listed. And I can generally get a good idea about which kinds or arguments, or lack-there-of, I can expect from certain age ranges.


Now with all this said, its back to Pom, and with everything in consideration culminated, it leads me to a conclusion.

Given her personal meta of what I know about her, I'd have to conclude that her lack of active scum hunting is a null tell. Yes, I did say all that to come to the conclusion that is 'null'.

The reason I'm torn is one of her comments though:

I'll try to do more

now

, though.

I don't like the 'now'. This implies that since she got called out on it, only 'now' will she start trying to be useful and productive, but before, she wouldn't have.

[UncertainKitten]

Sex is an obvious one in that females generally are more emotional and will generally dislike more scathing attacks on them regardless of whether or not its personal.

Bah! Stereotypes! You can't just put girls and guys in boxes like that

Given her personal meta of what I know about her, I'd have to conclude that her lack of active scum hunting is a null tell. Yes, I did say all that to come to the conclusion that is 'null'.

Seriously? hmm...I...don't like this. It makes me want to get Pom's flip. But I really want Iec's as well .

What to do :S.

[Iecerint]

The thing to do is to wait for more information on her meta and for her supposedly-nascent other post. Or whoever already has it could supply it, as per my prior request.

UK -- remind me why I'm likely scum, other than null things and things that would be more efficiently determined by lynching Vaya? I know this is D1, but it sort of doesn't make sense, etc. (Also, do you quote that way intentionally?)

[UncertainKitten]

UK -- remind me why I'm likely scum, other than null things and things that would be more efficiently determined by lynching Vaya? I know this is D1, but it sort of doesn't make sense, etc. (Also, do you quote that way intentionally?)

A habit I've developed. Let me dredge up the post I voted you in.

[UncertainKitten]

Unvote, Vote Iecerint

-Worrying too much about appearances (It's not OMGUS if you actually have reasoning, so damn the accusation and go forward. At least if you're townie)
-Bandwagon following (not scummy in and of itself but not very helpful to town)
-Strong defense of possible scum, assumption that SSK was the liar rather than Vaya at first (chainsaw possibly)
-Strong defense of Vaya prior to SSK's claim

I realize the last two points hinge on Vaya's alignment, but we have more information than usual regarding that. I'd say the first point though is strong enough to stand on for a vote switch.

You responded but I wasn't convinced by any of your responses really.

[Iecerint]

OK. Fair enough. Silly case, though. The first two aren't any better than SP's on Vaya, and the last two (as you indicate) do not imply that lynching me is ideal play.

[UncertainKitten]

OK. Fair enough. Silly case, though. The first two aren't any better than SP's on Vaya, and the last two (as you indicate) do not imply that lynching me is ideal play.

Unfortunately, lynching Vaya is a worse play. And really? Elaborate on how the first two are as bad as SP's case. I implore you.

[SocioPath]

Bah! Stereotypes! You can't just put girls and guys in boxes like that

You can't say that males and females generally don't have similar playstyles.
Adel had a very masculine, analytical playstyle even before he was a male (that is, onsite )

Its no absolute though. (as I would see a box as being as)

Seriously? hmm...I...don't like this. It makes me want to get Pom's flip. But I really want Iec's as well .

Shes a 13 year old girl in school with an older sister on the site. Pressure and people hounding her might be a bit overwhelming to the average 13 year old.
And in depth psychoanalysis and playstyle descriptions isn't something I would expect from her either. This goes with the ASL meta, and her site meta I have on her.

You on the other hand, I would. Because I know how capable you are as a player, because of how your meta is. But also another meta factor for you, you have a mod meta, and of that for these kinds of games none-the-less, so I would hold game setup speculation and instances of 'try to outguess the mod' from you to be more valued than a player that sticks to normal and newbie games.
And now I'm manipulating you by playing to your gender and stroking your ego with the mod talk of past games.
Your opinion of me changes with each sentence, me stating the things up above certainly hasn't made you think I'm more scummy, as I know that doesn't play to your meta.
It might now though.
Just be sure to know the difference between liking the argument for its structural integrity, and liking the argument because you like how it makes you perceive yourself.

Some food for thought.

[AlmasterGM]

Me wonders why not. I mean, it was such a successful tactic for town that they had to come with an alternative (macho cops and roleblockers) so the game wouldn't be unbalanced.

If you're in a mini-normal with a confirmed sane cop, then sure, it's not a bad plan (although even then it's dangerous, thanks to the possibility of a Godfather). This isn't a mini-normal. It's a theme game with lots of bastard modding. While this doesn't mean we ignore cops entirely, it does mean we take what they have to say with a grain of salt.

Btw, what's the thing on Pom? You guys post too much, and I think I'm missing something.

It's a quality, not a quantiity issue.

stuff

Interesting.