Open 187- Silence of the Yams! Over!

[Ectomancer]

/confirm

[Ectomancer]

I have pneumonia. It gives me the perfect excuse to try out the role of active lurker. I've never been able to pull it off. I always end up as one of the most active posters in game. Wish me luck!

I was wondering...do all of you have less than 6 months mafia under your belts, or are these alts or have you played mafia elsewhere before?

[Ectomancer]

Less than 6 months but you pay attention at least and have caution.

What would you say Parts if I told you that in my experience scum tend to use an

fos

at nearly twice the rate of a town player?

[Ectomancer]

It doesn't. Thought you might find it interesting though.

[Ectomancer]

In newbie games? Not at all. The caveat to that observation is that it is nearly completely opposite with newer players. I find that a few things are different with newer players, hence my lead question.

The "Welcome to the Jungle" Vote Count:

Xscorpion- kunkstar7 (1)
Parts- Cat (1)
Cat-
kunkstar7- CSL (1)
ectomancer- ElectricBadger, Xscorpion (2)
ElectricBadger-
CSL-

Not Voting- Parts, ectomancer

[Ectomancer]

Nearly impossible to lurk when you people aren't posting.

vote ElectricBadger

for being hypocrite #1.

[Ectomancer]

Yes indeed. Its no OMGUS when you vote me for lurking, then begin lurking yourself. And the discussion around fos was no distraction. I don't know any of you and understanding how players react to various pressures is important. Parts is not only cautious, but also not easily baited into a reaction. You, on the other hand, are rather easy to provoke. Other interpretations would say you are easily thrown on the defensive.

Why so defensive? Now, tell me what you have added to the game Badger?

[Ectomancer]

I don't plan to play a 7 player game for 7 months people. Either start posting or let me know so I can replace out. I can only vote 1 lurker at a time. If you need my vote on you in order to get you to post, I'm not interested.

[Ectomancer]

I expect activity in a game and 1 other person other than myself posting every 24 hours or so is not a game I intend to bother with. I dont care whether there are holidays or not, if you signed up to play, then show up and post. If that's not going to happen, no problem, I'll replace out and focus on a game that is being played.

What have I added? I pointed out that after placing a vote against lurkers, you didnt show back up until I voted for you. Of course no one is bothering to show up either, hence I'm hours away from replacing. Other than that, I find it impossible to do anything when talking to myself, and of course the guy I had to vote for to get anything out of.

Prods are due this evening. Please bold any replacement requests. A bolded replacement request will be viewed as a final decision. No "takesies backsies"

[Ectomancer]

@Ecto- what is your opinion of RVS?

While people like to say "It starts games", it doesn't on its own. It is something to occupy our time while waiting for a bit of material to work with. Eventually it leads to conversation that moves the game, but often I skip right over it as soon as anything else is available. Some games take me longer than others, but my record is placing a serious vote on the 2nd post of the entire game.

[Ectomancer]

A profile search indicates no consistency.

No, a profile search shows a player with an

average

of 3 1/2 posts

per day

over the course of

3 years

. I know about how active a 7 player game should be, and this one wasn't cutting it.
Your idea that a couple votes prompted me to posting is also undercut by the idea I relayed in the original post that I have

never

been able to pull off lurking and always end up as one of the most active posters in the game. Kind of like this one.

[Ectomancer]

Now Badger, let me show you how to demonstrate inconsistency.

follow with an OMGUS combining a backtracking excuse with an attack based on my not commenting on 8 posts within a day.

Parts - Do you think that taking 24 hours to post is lurking?

These are two different excuses for the same action, though at first glance you may think they are the same. They are not.

Taking 24 hours to post can be a function of not being on the site. While they may not come to the site deliberately in order to avoid posting, they could also simply be inactive.

Not commenting on 8 posts in a day is quite a bit different. What this means is he logged in, saw 8 posts there and then

deliberately makes a decision not to post

. That right there is the definition of lurking, and Badger's 2 posts have me convinced that he came, he saw, he left and didnt post again until I voted for him.

[Ectomancer]

And yes, I did look in at one point and decided not to post - I was giving you a chance to push your case on Parts, which you failed to do. Distracting from that would have been counterproductive. Spamming is no more help to town than lurking.

The question is not whether anyone ever reads a game without posting. The question was, did you vote me for lurking and then begin to lurk yourself? By definition and your own admission, you did just that. Your motivation for doing so isn't in question, simply the fact that you did and have spent a few posts denying it while trying to call the vote on you OMGUS because you said you weren't lurking.

Now, there are actual good arguments you could make, you just aren't making them and I'm not inclined to help you.

Do you see no inconsistency in complaining about only 8 posts in one post, and then saying you didn't want to spam in another? Aren't those opposite concerns?

[Ectomancer]

I'll try to find it, but in his first post, a player voted the only other player he knew in the game and stated that was his reason. I immediately voted him for trying to remove the one player who might know his scumtells. (I guess technically that counts as RVS kicking off the game? Mafialosophy question there haha)

[Ectomancer]

Hey Badger, in your post where you vote Parts you seem to want us to believe you are being sarcastic. Can you give your current take on Parts?

unvote

There really was nothing wrong with Badger not posting, but games have to be started. I'm rather dissatisfied with his method of attack and he contradicts himself in defense. I would say that he is definitely a player of interest today.

[Ectomancer]

Yeah that's kind of a stupid reason. Anyone can go and look through people's games... is ElectricBadger not showing us that right now?

This post passed way above my head. Rephrase and make the focus clear? If you mean the reason I made a serious vote in that game is a stupid reason, I would say that questioning the motivations of a player is hardly stupid, and though anyone could re-read older games, it does not in fact recreate the experience of actually interacting with said player, making the player who

has

more likely to pick up on subtle clues in their play.

What is Badger not showing us?

[Ectomancer]

Do you see no inconsistency in complaining about only 8 posts in one post, and then saying you didn't want to spam in another? Aren't those opposite concerns?

6

Wait wait wait, when did Badger complain about there only being eight posts? It seemed to me that you were the one complaining.

The game isn't that long you know...

Hm...so you attempt to distract with the FOS thing - but you're not willing to actually push it, which is essentially the entire reason that FOS' are considered scummy...

follow with an OMGUS combining a backtracking excuse with an attack based on my not commenting on 8 posts within a day.

This really how you want to start out the game, Ecto?

[Ectomancer]

OK I will try this again.
Voting someone because they voted for someone they knew is no better than random voting. Obviously questioning motivations isn't stupid, but we're talking RVS here. Motivations are rarely serious. I've made a first post/vote in a game against the only person I knew, but I wasn't scum.
Any scumtells made by a given player in a given game will have been revealed through re-reads. Any scumtells that player would make that were not in said game will not be known to his friend either. I agree that it would be better to be able to interact, but it's not impossible to determine someone's play style with enough re-reading.

ElectricBadger is showing us that anyone can go and look through people's games.


Clear enough for you?

Here is your link.

viewtopic.php?t=10297&start=0

You're pretty funny. You do realize that was a different game, and the post was a way to start that game? That's what this is about, starting games. Can you tell me why you are arguing about a vote in another game? Can you tell me what ElectricBadger looking at other players games has to do with an argument concerning a game that was played and over with? Can you tell me what

either

of those has to do with this game?
The point I made was that you don't need an RVS and provided an example as backing material.
Can you tell me exactly what you are doing except trying to be contrary? Why don't you choose an argument from

this

game hey?

[Ectomancer]

Hm...so you attempt to distract with the FOS thing - but you're not willing to actually push it, which is essentially the entire reason that FOS' are considered scummy...

follow with an OMGUS combining a backtracking excuse with an attack based on my not commenting on 8 posts within a day.

He didn't complain, he was saying that you attacked him for not commenting on eight posts. That isn't complaining, you just seem to be trying to twist his words for your use.

Read the game.
He did in fact complain that there were only 8 posts and I just quoted it. Nowhere in Ectomancer's posts is there any mention of this 8 post number until after he made it, but seeing as I had to quote Badger for you to see this post in the first place, I suppose you'll need me to demonstrate that I didn't say it. Only I cant quote what wasn't said, so you'll have to read all my posts.
Read the game.
I posted the 8 post quote and the 24 hour quote to demonstrate a contradiction and to give a basis for my suspicion that he visited the thread and decided to lurk. He then admitted that he visited the game, didnt see anything to post about and left. That is the definition of lurking, which is what I voted him over. (well actually I voted him for being a hypocrite)
Going back and attacking me for a post that both demonstrated basis for my reasoning and then also resulted in the other player admitting that they did exactly what I accused them of is definitely scummy as hell.

vote Kunkstar7

[Ectomancer]

Yeah I commented on that

If there is evidence, it's not an rvs vote
But if you mean the random vote isn't meant to be scum evidence in itself, you're right. It isn't, but the extra little comments people toss in? Those are the seedlings of discussion and as long as there is at least a thread of logic to follow, you go with it until the game matures.

Im going to try to take a break until some of the others show up. I'm beginning to do the opposite of lurking, which can be nearly as bad.

[Ectomancer]

Wow, that post is full of fail.

There is no inconsistency in position in those quotes. You see, when you say there is a contradiction, its kind of imperative that you point it out. There is no contradiction to calling you out for lurking when you admitted yourself that you came, you read, you left. There is also no contradiction to saying there was nothing

wrong

with your lurking either. You did it. I proved you did. I validated the vote I made on you. The logical progression existed and when we are, you know, only 8 posts into the game, that is all that matters. The game underfoot, I unvoted. There is no way I would take a simple "case" like that to lynch.

Your subsequent behavior, on the other hand, is a far different story. You are lashing out with misreps on cases and players with little logic except it serves to either defend yourself or attack those who don't appear to be on your side.

Once again, complaining on one hand that there was only 8 posts and nothing to comment on, and on the other saying you didn't want to spam up the thread is utterly contradictory. "Hey, why didn't you spit?" "I didn't want to flood the yard"
Also, where is this investigation that you didn't want to hinder at that point? Your excuse doesn't apply to the game.

Quality misrep on the Kunkstar vote. Now we see you don't bother to argue facts. You seem in fact to primarily rely on emotional projection. There was no "clarification" requested by Kunkstar. He directly attacked me, characterizing my quotes of you as "twisting your words to suit my purpose". Can you explain how you twist words by directly quoting?
No, Kunkstar decided to avoid the facts of the matter in order to make a slanderous comment. The facts are there. I called you for lurking, I posted the quotes you made denying it to show a contradiction in your excuses for not posting, and then you admitted that you did exactly what I said you did. He had to go out of his way to find something to complain about, so while we are talking about scumbuddies, Kunkstar looks very much like yours.

Pretty funny that because Parts didn't agree with you, suddenly he's narrow-minded and a scumbuddy or just a bad player? I find Parts to be careful and a bit non-committal while still making his position known. Cautious scum may play the same, but

so would cautious town

.

Are you concerned you will have problems with Parts later in game and so need to slander him now? This is probably one of the most suspicious things you have done this game, as Parts reads to me as neutral as he can be.

[Ectomancer]

In this case, he came, he read, he left, hence, he lurked. It is being present but not contributing. That definition suits

this

situation just fine. Worth a vote? To start a game it damn sure was. Do I use the strictest technical definition of lurking in all of my games? If it suits my purposes.

Kunkstar, I dont care how many times you use the words "He said", because he did in fact COMPLAIN that there was only 8 posts, so how could I expect him to add anything, and he did in fact COMPLAIN that there was only 24 hours between his postings. Both were COMPLAINTS he was using as an EXCUSE against my vote.
It definitely is a complaint when he uses, HE USED, not me, the number of posts to make an excuse for not posting. I dont care if there is ZERO posts, if you showed up, you can make a post and the number of them currently in existence doesnt alter that one whit.

And NONE of this alters the fact that the quote you are harping over was the one used to coerce Badger into admitting that he did in fact visit the thread and left without posting. That fits the strict technical definition of lurking and hence completely justifies both that post and the vote preceding it. The purpose of that post was clear as crystal and Badger responded clear as crystal.

I was right.

Here's a hint, don't be quite so obvious when you are defending a scumbuddy or sucking up to town.

[Ectomancer]

I'm not getting over this, coughing up blood this morning so I'm headed back to the doctor.

request replacement

sorry to hear that. hope you feel better soon

.