888: X-COM TFTD Mafia: Over!

[Igor Schultz]

Otto did not suicide, he would have been voted off in any way. He was at l-2 with a person who would put him at l-1. And you are saying that I got my partner killed on d-1. He was a mc meaning he was a sort of sk (from what I can tell). Thus I got one of the most powerful anti-town roles killed on d-1. I feel great for loosing my team the game emmy. I however, prefer to be down a scum then up one. Now as for emmy's partner... this will take some more time to think and re-read on...

[Jaime Marcelle]

I would like everyone else voting Emile (or for that matter, Igor) to answer this: Who is your best guess for that player's partner?

I wouldn't know. From what i've seen he hasn't been saying anyone else is solidly town (the best I think he's said was that some people were leaning town) and I don't think there's anyone that thinks he's town.

You are assuming that you are town yourself, something that I highly doubt. Also, Stuart was anti-town regardless of his alignment, I'm sure nearly everyone here can agree on that. Otto suicided. You can't really say that "I've only voted for town players. You saying you voted for Gehard doesn't mean anything except that you bussed him and are trying to get the credit for it now.

You comepletely avoid one of the points of that statement (and the main one of mine). What is the point of voting someone who is doing something scummy when you've done the exact same thing? One of the cases that you're voting Igor is that he jumps on a lot of people when a lot of others think they were scummy and as I've said before you've done the exact same thing.

[Spencer Remmington]

I am here now! And the first thing I'd like to do is KILL OUR MOD for picking THIS layout. What the hell malt?

Unvote, Vote malt

That said, I'll probably read the game tomorrow and find the scum for you.

[Jaime Marcelle]

I am here now! And the first thing I'd like to do is KILL OUR MOD for picking THIS layout. What the hell malt?

Unvote, Vote malt

That said, I'll probably read the game tomorrow and find the scum for you.

Ok so I'm tired and it just might be the tiredness talking but this might be a really stupid question. Of which layout are you speaking of?

Also, we really need some more activity around here. It was more then 24 hrs since my last post and only Spencer has talked since then.

[Edward Smilie]

@Emile: If a protown player sees another player make a compelling case against a third party, what should he do?

Depends on how compelling the said case is.

Oh, COME ON! This is just a blatant dodge. I've said it's compelling. IE, you believe it correct.

emmy have you noted that you have only voted for town players thus far? I voted for ger way back in the day.

You are assuming that you are town yourself, something that I highly doubt. [/quote]

No, he's talking about your perfect past record of attacking all the dead town, and defending the dead scum.

Otto suicided.

To avoid an inevitable lynch.

I would like everyone else voting Emile (or for that matter, Igor) to answer this: Who is your best guess for that player's partner?

I wouldn't know. From what i've seen he hasn't been saying anyone else is solidly town (the best I think he's said was that some people were leaning town) and I don't think there's anyone that thinks he's town.

OH. MY. GOD.

Is this seriously all, or even the main thing, you look for when looking for partners?

[Claude Lefevre]

I am back from V/LA. I read the activity of the last 48 hours and I see that no big stuff happened. Regarding the case on Emile && the case on Igor, I must say I see no decisive observation was made during my absence.

One thing that deserves a comment is Igor's post #500. I am slightly disturbed by one thing. In that post, as well as in the post I am now quoting:

The beginning flavor text leads me to beleive that he was either scum or an SK. However, I still want to know are there multiple species of aliens?

Also, Gerhard seemed to be a VERY opportunistic scum: voting both Edward and Stuart when they were the most scummy people. He also attacked Orski (Edward's replacement) which leads me to beleive that whoever the replacement is for Orski is town.

Also, looking back I don't think he pointed anyone out as being town. Sure he defended people like Andrew said but that's not enough incriminating evidence for me to go on. Anyway, I'll keep thinking about this but for now I'll keep my vote off anyone.

yes I think I already told you this! he used what the game calls psy powers. He would contrl someone and kill through him. Thats how it works in the game. So he would be considered a mafia sk. I don't think that their is a 3rd party of any sort. Gerard was part of the scum faction. All of the aleins in x-com no matter of race work together never apart. It would help for everybody to actually play a round or two of x-com I have a download site alredy found: http://dosgamer.com/x-com-ufo-defense/, and tftd http://dosgamer.com/x-com-terror-from-the-deep/ you will also need dosbox to run these you can google that or go to: http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1. Play one hour of each (once you get past the learning wall) and then come and ask the town if he was an sk. Try raiding a base in ether game and tell me his role. Go on any ol' mission and tell me if there is an sk.

Igor seems pretty sure about Gerhard alignment... can it be just that he knows the game X-COM? If I am wrong, then please write in a more respectable English. Also, trying to get credit for pinging sucm, which is btw not true, is something that I cannot forget so easily.

I do not feel any "genuine townie frustration" in Igor's posts, given the fact that there is no possible meta in this game, to post stuff like "ok, go on, lynch me, you'll see that I am town" means nothing to me.

I would like to answer Edward's question. I am voting Igor, but Emile remains my second FoS. If Igor is scum, which I believe, partner may be Jaime (I posted my reasons for FoSing him all along the thread). If Emile is scum, then I can only name some players who °prolly° are not scum, and namely Leon and Jaime.
I would be stunned if both Emile and Igor were scum (not impossible, tho: I have seen similar strategies played by smart scumparties: one must go, the other one will be considered clear).

I am generally getting town-vibes from Andrew and, even though I theoretically considered lynching him some posts ago, I gotta say I lean towards the idea that Edward may be town, too.

Mod: WE NEED VOTECOUNTS, plz

[Igor Schultz]

I am here now! And the first thing I'd like to do is KILL OUR MOD for picking THIS layout. What the hell malt?

Unvote, Vote malt

That said, I'll probably read the game tomorrow and find the scum for you.

which setup are you talking of?

and @ claude... when I do flip vanilla town what will you do?

[malthusis]

T he clock keeps ticking down as people are still thinking about who is the correct lynch for today. Even with the lights out bell in 2 hours, discussion is still in a deadlock, with no side gaining a clear advantage....

The Third Vote Count of Day 3:

Emile Buchard:3 (Igor, Edward, Jaime)

Igor Schultz:3 (Leon, Claude, Emile)

Not Voting:2 (Spencer, Andrew)

Notes:

1. Spencer has been replaced.

2. Prods are going out to everyone who needs them.

3. This isn't Mind Screw, you can't lynch the mod

[Spencer Remmington]

Ok so I'm tired and it just might be the tiredness talking but this might be a really stupid question. Of which layout are you speaking of?

Also, we really need some more activity around here. It was more then 24 hrs since my last post and only Spencer has talked since then.

I mean the MafTyger layout. I'd change it but it's actually helping me know which account I'm logged into.

That said, I'll start my read.

[Jaime Marcelle]

and @ claude... when I do flip vanilla town what will you do?

When you do? Really? If you do would be a much better choice of words.

OH. MY. GOD.

Is this seriously all, or even the main thing, you look for when looking for partners?

No, I look for connections of every sort. If he FoSes someone a long time but never votes them, a lot of protection on someone, possible bussing etc. However, that was just a small overveiw of what I thought. I have not found out any possible scumbuddys however, if he dies and flips scum then I will read into it closer.

[Emile Buchard]

@Emile: If a protown player sees another player make a compelling case against a third party, what should he do?

Depends on how compelling the said case is.

Oh, COME ON! This is just a blatant dodge. I've said it's compelling. IE, you believe it correct.

Well, if I believe it's correct then I'll go with it and if I don't then I won't go with it. It's that simple. Either way, the question has no real point or bearing on the game. As far as my "perfect record" I've only voted for two townies. TWO! Now, if you know anything about probabilities then you know that the chance of a townie voting for two townies back-to-back is pretty probable. You can't extrapolate all kinds of crazy allegations over such a small sample size.

Now, I think Igor is sinking deeper and deeper into a pit of scumminess. He hasn't done anything to convince me that he's anything but flailing scum.

[Jaime Marcelle]

As far as my "perfect record" I've only voted for two townies. TWO! Now, if you know anything about probabilities then you know that the chance of a townie voting for two townies back-to-back is pretty probable. You can't extrapolate all kinds of crazy allegations over such a small sample size.

The point is not that you've voted two townies but you've also just gone with pretty much who everyone voted for the entire game. People vote for stuart so do you. People vote for Otto, so do you! People vote for Igor, guess who else does, you! This may still be a small sample size but you have also added barely anything to the convo if at all throughout most of the game, especially once people start suspecting you.

[Claude Lefevre]

I do not like post 506. Obviously if Igor should turn town (unlikely) I would say "shit" and I would try n find real scum (according to my already posted FoS's, probably Emile), unless town decided that me promoting Igor's lynch is worth a punishment So what is the point in asking?

But on the other hand I do not understand what is going on here. For some reason, Emile's post 510 bothers me a lot (defense without real content). Also I wonder: after my post in which I explained that to me Igor and Jaime may be scum together, would they be so dumb to buddy this way? Probably not.

This is surely worth an

Unvote

and a question to Emile:

What is making Igor sink deeper and deeper in scumminess, exactly? Just the fact that he is accusing you?

@Edward:

this is important:

in post 504 you imply once again that scum knew Gerhard's identity and killed him anyway? Or you think some other player killed him? Please articulate your answer: discussion has been way too elusive on this point, imo.

[Igor Schultz]

and @ claude... when I do flip vanilla town what will you do?

When you do? Really? If you do would be a much better choice of words.

OH. MY. GOD.

Is this seriously all, or even the main thing, you look for when looking for partners?

No, I look for connections of every sort. If he FoSes someone a long time but never votes them, a lot of protection on someone, possible bussing etc. However, that was just a small overveiw of what I thought. I have not found out any possible scumbuddys however, if he dies and flips scum then I will read into it closer.

So when I do flip toen (I swear to god I will) Then you would be the first to be lynched. You have been very adiment about lynching my little town ass. I am starting to think you are emmy's scum buddy. When I flip town what would that do to you? you would have been the main promoter of two-three misslynches, you would also be noted that you don't really contribute to the emmy case. You posted after her and didn't say a anything. Not a word.

[Edward Smilie]

@Edward:

this is important:

in post 504 you imply once again that scum knew Gerhard's identity and killed him anyway? Or you think some other player killed him? Please articulate your answer: discussion has been way too elusive on this point, imo.

Uh, no, clearly I did not imply anything of the kind. Discussion has been 'elusive' because to speculate on what kind of roles could have caused the twilight results is antitown. This question just looks like rolefishing to me.

__________________________________________
I will return to Emile shortly, but I am becoming increasingly aggravated by Igor's ignoring of what I think are the main points against him:

1) Calling Gerhard 'possible' scum on the Stuart wagon, before Stuart's flip, when Igor was on the Stuart wagon so presumably 'thought' him scum;

2) Not explaining exactly what it was he was trying to achieve with his 'gambit.'

[Andrew Lemarchand]

Sorry I didn't announce my V/LA, I should have a post up by this afternoon.

[Jaime Marcelle]

So when I do flip toen (I swear to god I will) Then you would be the first to be lynched.

What makes you so sure about this? I'd still probably vote Emile over Claude even if you flip town. In fact, that whole post of yours just seems like a final attempt to not get lynched by trying to scare claude off of you.

[Claude Lefevre]

@Edward:

this is important:

in post 504 you imply once again that scum knew Gerhard's identity and killed him anyway? Or you think some other player killed him? Please articulate your answer: discussion has been way too elusive on this point, imo.

Uh, no, clearly I did not imply anything of the kind. Discussion has been 'elusive' because to speculate on what kind of roles could have caused the twilight results is antitown. This question just looks like rolefishing to me.

Role-fishing you say? Yeah, possibly, but it was worth a shot for another reason. It is always possible that a scum player will do the mistake of revealing something he could know ONLY if he is scum. This is why I keep asking questions like this whenever someone mentions the Gerhard twilight death.

But you are right that discussing it too exhaustively would be an advantage for scum.

[Andrew Lemarchand]

Just popping in to say I'm leaning towards voting Emile, I'll have more up later today.

[Andrew Lemarchand]

Non-Emile Notes:

1. Where is Leon and what does he think?

2. Jamie's answer to the possible scumbuddy question was pretty awful. It comes across as someone who hasn't been concerned with scumbuddies, possibly because he doesn't have to be. Also, the "I would't know" reaction seemed a little overly defensive.

3. @Claude - I know you're waiting for Emile's response, but please explain your unvote of Igor and your increasing suspicion of Emile a little more.

[Leon Dreyfus]

Present.

I still dislike Jaime, Igor looks a bit better. Still not a whole lot, so I'm leaving my vote there.

I never have liked Emile, so I wouldn't be sad to see him go today.

This was a quick hit, more will come.

[Claude Lefevre]

@Andrew:

My FoS's remain pretty much the same, but I have 2 reasons for unvoting.

1) Emile's posts are not satisfactory: his defense is always an attack to Igor, while Igor at least tries to give argumentations about his own behavior. Tbh, I still fail feeling a "genuine town frustration" in Igor's activity, but Emile's post 510 is a simple OMGUS, and it contains two weaknesses: (1) he screams that the case on him is thin, he invokes probability, which sounds scummy, I would prefer if he said "I voted to townies but I had the good following reasons" and (2) he states that Igor is sinking in scumminess but I don't see why and he does not explain it.

2) I have linguistic difficulties understanding some of Igor's posts. I prefer to interact a little more before casting my vote.

[Jaime Marcelle]

I still dislike Jaime, Igor looks a bit better. Still not a whole lot, so I'm leaving my vote there.

I never have liked Emile, so I wouldn't be sad to see him go today.

You are correct. That was a VERY quick hit. You're leaving out a lot of important things (as usual -_-). What new things have you seen from Emile and me that you don't like? What makes you think that Igor is beginning to look better?

Anyway, i have failed to see a real defence of himself from Emile. All i've seen from him recently (and really for the whole game) was just attacking other people and even when he did it was mostly just restating what everyone else said.

[Igor Schultz]

So leon, if I get lynched and flip town then you would want to lynch emmy and jaime. I would like to tell all of you that when I flip town jaime and emmy were the two bigest supporters of my lynch. And @jaime if I was scum I would have no need to role fish (even if I didn't). I would already know that you were town, scum, etc.

[Jaime Marcelle]

So leon, if I get lynched and flip town then you would want to lynch emmy and jaime. I would like to tell all of you that when I flip town jaime and emmy were the two bigest supporters of my lynch.

I disagree with you. Wouldn't the people that support your lynch most... Actually be voting to lynch you?

And @jaime if I was scum I would have no need to role fish (even if I didn't). I would already know that you were town, scum, etc.

Alright, nice to know that your talking to me... About something I've never brought up. And yes, you would have need to rolefish. The only thing better then a scum that knows what faction everyone belongs to (which they do) is one that knows what everyone is. If scum knew who was a cop or doc vs who was a nilla or a BP wouldn't that be better for them?