Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)

[Ellibereth]

Farside, why vote DLA > SC when Neto meta-defending applies to both?
You said you were looking at Shotty, did you find DLA scummier than him or have you not looked at him yet?

And you still haven't spelled my name right once I think.
(Just use Elli)

[Ellibereth]

I also don't think that Neto would so actively meta-defend both of the other two scum...

[kikuchiyo]

I also don't think that Neto would so actively meta-defend both of the other two scum...

This. Its what makes this choice all the more difficult.

[Ellibereth]

I have a theory: The other two scum are Shotty + One of DLA and Serial.

[dramonic]

The Fourteenth Votecount: Another Day, Another Destiny...

Kikuchiyo (1): DarkLightA
SerialClergyman (1): Scigatt
DarkLightA (1): Farside


Not Voting (7): Kise, SttB, Ellibereth, Ojanen, SC, Kikuchiyo, hewitt

With 10 alive it take 6 to lynch!
Deadline is the 8th, but it can be extended.

[farside22]

Farside, why vote DLA > SC when Neto meta-defending applies to both?
You said you were looking at Shotty, did you find DLA scummier than him or have you not looked at him yet?

And you still haven't spelled my name right once I think.
(Just use Elli)

Sorry I'm terrible with names unless I put it on my notebook when typing things
I didn't see anything, zip, zero, nada from neto about shotty.
Something is niggling about that so for now I'm going with the main two I saw that neto just gave excuses for one was DLA and the other CSL. Frankly either would be part of my vote for the same reason. As I said at the end Neto mentioned many of the flakes, crazy, spastic players but his only vote was you, saber or ABR even though there were great cases on both CSL and DLA.

[farside22]

I also don't think that Neto would so actively meta-defend both of the other two scum...

I'm weighing this a bit more on DLA in respect because I brought up saber and CSL and asked question about their meta and he just kept bring up DLA as a nurse in one game and how scummy he was in that game. I think that main point is why my vote landed on DLA.

[Ellibereth]

Shotty and Neto were avoiding each other Day 1 IMO.
Shotty didn't even mention Neto until Albert started pushing
And then he put some crap up like:

ABR where did you go? I need you to talk about Neto.

I need to reread Neto and someone else

[Ojanen]

I am in Mongolia with varying access until 28th December.
Will get a post up, but likely not for the couple next days.

I remember thinking kiku looked like an viable scumpartner candidate for Neto while reading the thread. In fact that was mostly what I expressed wanting to elaborate on before the night and before kiku hammered. The hammer doesn't make her look exactly better. I'm gonna look again at it.

Suspects: kiku, Shotty, Kise (that's the new Yarmond slot right?).
I am gonna revise Serial slot but I'm not inclined to pile up on him at this point, his posts looked townish enough.

[SerialClergyman]

Sorry I haven't posted as much as I'd like, I'm really struggling for access and issues in other games have demanded my attention.

I think you missed the point of my argument, kiku.

The timeline goes..

Neto at L-1, talk of hammering but everyone decides to wait for Kitty and Ojanen.
Kiku jumps on the wagon and hammers.
--- Night ---
Kiku's first post says we should focus on those not on the wagon and goes through them all.

It seems possible to me that you pushed yourself onto the wagon and are now tryign to direct suspicion away from it.

Serial: Why would you call a player slot that has close to no posts scummy? It seems it was mostly because of RL reasons...

Well, there was one post by KittyMo and it looked suspicious. When you replace into the game and give your own version of events, you generally wouldn't necessarily find the biggest wagon the most scummy. Yet she had neto at the top of her list. It's possible that she came in and just happened to pick the same scum we were wagoning, but it just didn't ring true to me.

Also, lurking is one thing but two seperate players who have posted so little don't look good to me. We'll see how Kise goes now that he's replaced in but from what I've seen I haven't liked that slot so far in the least.

I think Elli brings up a good point about Shotty but I had this to add - at the same time that Shotty was saying Albert was scum with DLA, he then turned around and buddied Albert pretty hard and started to talk his way onto the Neto wagon. I don't usually join the wagon of my top suspect nor do I 'talk to them about it' first. I thought that was particularly odd.

Would lvoe some content from Kise.

[kikuchiyo]

Serial Clergyman: You must have missed these.

Who else are you suspicious of that was on the wagon yesterday? If you think both scum were on the wagon then who are they? If you don't think both scum were on the wagon, then you really shouldn't have a problem with my decision to go after the four who weren't.

You weren't avoiding answering these questions, were you?

[farside22]

Shotty and Neto were avoiding each other Day 1 IMO.
Shotty didn't even mention Neto until Albert started pushing
And then he put some crap up like:

ABR where did you go? I need you to talk about Neto.

I need to reread Neto and someone else

Yeah but SC started a case on shotty which is why I have pause on that. If I think of of DLA or SC scum based on neto defense then I have to wonder about shotty with SC trying to get him lynched.

[kikuchiyo]

The timeline goes..

Neto at L-1, talk of hammering but everyone decides to wait for Kitty and Ojanen.
Kiku jumps on the wagon and hammers.
--- Night ---
Kiku's first post says we should focus on those not on the wagon and goes through them all.

It seems possible to me that you pushed yourself onto the wagon and are now tryign to direct suspicion away from it.

Funny. Here's my timeline:

DLA - I'd hammer right now.

I'd like Kitty to chime in but won't ask you to wait for days for me, do as you will on the wagon.

Neto - you have claimed vanilla townie. There is no reason to keep you alive. You're scummy, your cases have been bad (Albert remains town) and Ojanen has stitched you up completely.

Plus your wagon will give us plenty of info. Speaking of which, if you're town I would have expected that you'd have accepted your lynch and given us your scumreads and things to go by for when you were confirmed.

You have 5 minutes for last words then I'm hammering. Last chance to be productive if you're town, or continue whining if scum.

STOP.......................



Hammertime.

unvote, vote Neto

Post 888. SC defends his hammer and hop on the wagon.

Post 901. DLA asks if anyone is in for the hammer once Mod acknowledges that SC's vote is not hte hammer.

ABR unvotes. Then revotes wanting to hear from Ojanen and Kittymo.

Hewitt "sees" the case on Neto.

Post 928. SC maintains that Neto is the "right" lynch. No mention of waiting for anybody. No acknowledgement of his failed hammer. Defensive response. No new insight or investigation.

Post 931. SC is obviously bored?

Post 940. Saber with a good point.

Post 942. SC actually criticizes Albert(his obvtown read) for wanting to wait to hear from Kittymo.

Kittymo responds. Serial calls it weak.

Shotty goes V/LA.

Kiku hammers.

Tl;dr SC is spouting bullshit. Only Albert and Farside expressed any interest whatsoever in hearing from Kitty and Ojanen. Trying to paint that as some sort of cooperative town decision to wait on the hammer is entirely false. Again: SC is trying to have it both ways.

[DarkLightA]

Sorry, I realize that I was illogical when I voted kik.. I would have hammered too..

unvote
vote: CS

Scummy play during the lynch plus the play during his conflict with the mason.

[Ellibereth]

Shotty and Neto were avoiding each other Day 1 IMO.
Shotty didn't even mention Neto until Albert started pushing
And then he put some crap up like:

ABR where did you go? I need you to talk about Neto.

I need to reread Neto and someone else

Yeah but SC started a case on shotty which is why I have pause on that. If I think of of DLA or SC scum based on neto defense then I have to wonder about shotty with SC trying to get him lynched.

Meh...Serial just replaced in for CSL so he had to be pretty convincing to avoid getting lynched. I don't think it would have been a problem for him to a launch an attack on his buddies to make himself look better.

I also think Shotty very well knew that noone else was going to support a DLA lynch...

[Ellibereth]

[quote=Serial]
at the same time that Shotty was saying Albert was scum with DLA, he then turned around and buddied Albert pretty hard and started to talk his way onto the Neto wagon. I don't usually join the wagon of my top suspect nor do I 'talk to them about it' first. I thought that was particularly odd. [/quote]

Odd in a good way or a bad way?
The thing is Shotty only he said he wanted to talk about Neto, reread Neto etc. He didn't indicate the intention he wanted Neto to be the D1 lynch.
Where did Shotty buddy Albert?

[Ellibereth]

EBWOP: Stupid tags

at the same time that Shotty was saying Albert was scum with DLA, he then turned around and buddied Albert pretty hard and started to talk his way onto the Neto wagon. I don't usually join the wagon of my top suspect nor do I 'talk to them about it' first. I thought that was particularly odd.

Odd in a good way or a bad way?
The thing is Shotty only he said he wanted to talk about Neto, reread Neto etc. He didn't indicate the intention he wanted Neto to be the D1 lynch.
Where did Shotty buddy Albert?

[Ojanen]

Serial: Did you know you were not hammering?

[SerialClergyman]

Elli - odd in a bad way. Do you usually take time out from persuing someone you think is scum to talk your way onto the wagon they've been pushing for days?

Ojanen - No, I thought I was hammering then, I don't do false vote gambits, I think they are unsporting. From memory I wanted to hammer, but then you asked us not to, then you said you'd be 3 days or something so I placed a vote I thought was a hammer. Then it wasn't, and Albert asked to hear more from you and Kitty, then Kitty posted once and I tried to engage her, and you hadn't posted any more catchup stuff and then kiku came out of nowhere and placed the hammer.

That's how I remember it, so I could be off base.

@ kiku - I think you're asking for an unfair burden of proof. The theory that you pushed yourself onto the wagon for a bus and then turned around to the group and told everyone to hunt off the wagon is a solid theory - it doesn't need me to point out who the two people on the wagon are. I think that yes, you do have some town motivation for looking off the wagon, generally that's the best place to find scum for a scum lynch. But what I'm saying to you is you came within a gnat's breadth of not being on the wagon. I consider you 'barely' on the wagon, and the reason for that is your oddly timed hammer. It came during a time where plenty of others could have hammered earlier but specifically were not to respect the wishes of a couple of players. I think you were the least 'on the wagon' of the entire group, to be perfectly honest.

Kise - where are you? At all close to a catchup post?

[kikuchiyo]

^^ This post contains no other suspects. Anytime you would like to share your thoughts in that direction(you've been asked twice) is welcome.

You didn't "engage" Kitty imo, and you never came back to voice dissapproval of the hammer when it occurred. If you are off base, reread the end of the day before slinging bullshit accusations.

Shotty: What do you think of DLA? What do you think of SC?

SC: What do you think of DLA?

Farside: Should we lynch Shotty before DLA/Serial?

Saber: Thoughts?

[SerialClergyman]

kiku, I engaged Kitty as best I could - I questioned her post at the time and thought it was suspicious. I stand by what I said, and she was never given the chance to respond. I'm still awaiting Kise's thoughts.

I did disapprove of the hammer, I asked you to explain it before hte lynch scene was posted, which you never responded to.

My suspects at the moment are shotty, you and Kise.

I don't know what to think about DLA. He has been unfairly classified as a VI when he's not, although his posting style is gruff and lacking in explanation at times. Shotty being very aggressive towards him on D1 makes him more likely to be town in my eyes.

[kikuchiyo]

I did disapprove of the hammer, I asked you to explain it before hte lynch scene was posted, which you never responded to.

Please show where this occurred. You never returned after your "Kitty" engagement.

I hammered because noone was. It seemed to me like the wagon was being stalled. That indicated to me that Neto was scum and that his buddy(s) didn't want to hammer him.

What do you think of Saber?

[Ojanen]

I hammered because noone was. It seemed to me like the wagon was being stalled. That indicated to me that Neto was scum and that his buddy(s) didn't want to hammer him.

Self-noting sentence that (unquantifiably) feels off, but need to read end of yesterday carefully to verify.

[SerialClergyman]

Wow kiku, I apologise and was totally wrong. I iso'd myself to make sure I had said something and found that I had indeed asked you what gives, so made that point, but of course that was today, not last night. I totally retract anything that said I questioned it yesterday. As you say, after I questioned Kitty on her catchup post I never made it back to the thread.

Do you usually hammer after someone is at L-1 for quite a while or did you ahve a special feeling this time?

I think Saber is probably town. I don't know why, his play reads horribly in a vacuum, but I have experience with him in another game and I hold him to very different standards. I jsut think he's town *shrug*.

[Ellibereth]

Saber's not playing anymore, and I honestly have no idea what to think of him. Main reason for this is is I don't know if he was playing to win or cared about the result...

Shotty being very aggressive towards him on D1 makes him more likely to be town in my eyes.

I already said, I think Shotty had a good idea that DLA was not going to be the day 1 lynch.

Shotty looks like the best lynch.

Vote: Shotty