Mini 897 - OpenSource Mafia - Game over!!

[UncertainKitten]

So, if I remove my *random* vote (which has no weight anyway, by definition), but I don't place it anywhere else, is this better or worse than if I hadn't ever placed a random vote in the first place?

Good question. I personally feel that your vote should be out at all times barring extenuating circumstances. It forces you to take a stance, no matter how weak. Honestly, that's another thing that bugs me. Your random vote DID have a serious component to it that you are disavowing at this point. That probably contributes to the feeling of "Why are you backtracking".

As to actually answer your question, it's probably worse. Generally if you don't place a random vote in the first place, you have a meta for or are developing a meta of not doing so for theory reasons. I don't like it but I'm not likely to vote you for it. The fact you placed one and withdrew it because people were getting on you for it rubs me the wrong way. So worse.

[Josh Lyman]

Vote: Josh Lyman

Literally the only person's name I don't at least recognize despite being new to mafiascum (not mafia in general). Clearly this is indicative of his alignment. Somehow.

You recognize my name? Wooh!

I've noticed an awful lot of fruits on this board.

Vote: Glork

for being generally unhelpful. And gloating about it. And having an odd name. And having Mod color in his sig. And having an odd avatar. And for having such a suspicious birthday. And and and. And because I feel like it.

Okay, point taken.

Here's what I did: I glanced at the posts made to that point (prior to my random vote), and grabbed the player that caught my eye. That happened to be Glork. [That's the 'random' bit.] As is my habit, I vomited out a bunch of words to, for lack of a better explanation, sound silly. [In keeping with the 'random' bit.] (I'm heavily involved in theatre, so random silliness is pervasive. There's a meta for me: run with it. See past games; I'm always pissing someone off with my irreverence.)

Jokes tend to fall a bit flat when they need to be explained; I'm learning that Mafia isn't quite the time nor the place for it. Slowly, I'm learning. (I can be thick.)

The fact you placed one and withdrew it because people were getting on you for it rubs me the wrong way. So worse.

Yeah, I need to pay more attention to my playstyle and how it is viewed by other people. Outward-looking, as opposed to inward-looking, and all that.

[UncertainKitten]

Yeah, I need to pay more attention to my playstyle and how it is viewed by other people. Outward-looking, as opposed to inward-looking, and all that.

Well, admitting it doesn't excuse it though. I'll keep my vote on you til I see reason to change it. But I'm grateful for the explanation ^-^

I'd suggest just looking around, scumhunting, and letting the day go on with you actively participating. If your participation seems town, then odds are my vote will shift to whoever else is scummy. Very rarely is a vote "final".

[Pomegranate]

About SB's ability:

It sounds like it could be a cult that

can

recruit mafia.

It also sounds like it could be what she says it is.

But why would the mafia claim? I think that was obviously an unreasonable request from SB, because from all that's known, she might not have an ability. So I'd be surprised if scum actually claim or anything.

Also, I'm waiting to hear what Glork has gotten from the mod.

[UncertainKitten]

But why would the mafia claim? I think that was obviously an unreasonable request from SB, because from all that's known, she might not have an ability. So I'd be surprised if scum actually claim or anything.

Honestly, scum strategy here should be have their weakest member claim, see what S_B does. If it's a trap, they lost a weak member that would probably die anyway. If it's real, they'll find out D2 and the others can come out, thusly creating a happy ending for all.

Then again, maybe I just like taking the easy way out, and that the mafia would rather actually play the game.

[Pomegranate]

But why would the mafia claim? I think that was obviously an unreasonable request from SB, because from all that's known, she might not have an ability. So I'd be surprised if scum actually claim or anything.

Honestly, scum strategy here should be have their weakest member claim, see what S_B does. If it's a trap, they lost a weak member that would probably die anyway. If it's real, they'll find out D2 and the others can come out, thusly creating a happy ending for all.

Then again, maybe I just like taking the easy way out, and that the mafia would rather actually play the game.

That makes a lot of sense, but I'd be surprised if it actually happened. This whole claim is very sketchy, and they might not want to risk it.

[UncertainKitten]

That makes a lot of sense, but I'd be surprised if it actually happened. This whole claim is very sketchy, and they might not want to risk it.

Well, let me put it this way.

THAT WAS A HINT, MAFIOSOS! IT'D BE PRETTY COOL IF YOU LISTENED!

(To make sure it's clear I'm not saying you are scum Pom, and I don't mean for that statement to be interpretted that way)

[Josh Lyman]

So, scums out there, I have this wonderful ability that turns scum into town. So, who's scum? Let me help you. It's totally free.

There is something wrong with this post that I just can't put my finger on.

S_B, can you answer the following?

1) Was this a serious post?

2) If not, what was the point of posting it?

3) If so, can you explain exactly what you were trying to accomplish with this?

[Fishythefish]

Ya, but given that you have claimed Miller and have 3rd party-ish flavor, it's impossible that you are checks-innocent-3rd. Or at least rather unlikely.

Yes, that's more or less what I mean. I agree my flavour is third party looking. What I'm saying is that if I am third party, I'm a third party who knows they investigate guilty, which is kinda rare.

Whatever. As you origingally implied, judge me on my posts.

A note to iec - typically, third party roles investigate as innocent to cops. I know this.

Ya, but given that you have claimed Miller and have 3rd party-ish flavor, it's impossible that you are checks-innocent-3rd. Or at least rather unlikely.

Might I remind you this is a bastard game. NOTHING is impossible, and I

can't

won't say anymore about that right now.


Okay, yes, it WAS a random vote; none of the "reasons" I gave are real reasons. Back off, guys, it's just a game..... okay?

unvote

It felt to my like your first reason was at least semireal - Glork

was

being unhelpful. "It's just a game" is about the worst reason for stopping voting someone you can give, and really doesn't feel right to me. Softclaim of some sort of privileged setup knowledge (unless I've got the wrong end of the stick) seems wrong as well for town.
I like my vote where it is.

On random voting: my belief is that the "random vote stage" is misnamed. There's always something to vote on, however early in the game. You should always attempt to vote for the scummiest player; it's just that early in the game that's necessarily going to be a much weaker suspicion. This isn't a reason I think Josh is scum - people do vote genuinely for no reason, I just think it's a bad thing.

[Iecerint]

A note to iec - typically, third party roles investigate as innocent to cops. I know this.

Ya, but given that you have claimed Miller and have 3rd party-ish flavor, it's impossible that you are checks-innocent-3rd. Or at least rather unlikely.

Might I remind you this is a bastard game. NOTHING is impossible, and I

can't

won't say anymore about that right now.

Are you emphasizing that in the abstract, or do you really think that someone who doesn't check guilty would claim Miller? Assuming the latter, could you explain why (other than a Mod-mandated fakeclaim)? Maybe I suffer from lack of creativity.

I'm not crazy about JL's elaboration that his vote for Glock was random and the apparent justification for the vote (including the "Glock was unhelpful" bit) was intended to be jokey. I certainly accept that the subsequent jokey parts were jokey, but not the "unhelpful" bit.

(I agree with UK about vote theory.)

Pome, what's your point about scum "not wanting to risk it?" I mean, I agree with you, but why point that out?

[Iecerint]

kk @ Fishy

[UncertainKitten]

Pome, what's your point about scum "not wanting to risk it?" I mean, I agree with you, but why point that out?

You wanna know what bothers me more? Josh's most recent post on the issue. Honestly, the answers to most of those questions are self evident, and I really don't see a pro town reason for asking them.

Perhaps others disagree?

[Iecerint]

JL's post is more problematic, but he posted it after Pome had already sorta let the cat out of the bag. I feel the same way about this Pome-JL post pair as I felt about the original Pome-JL post pair about Glock's lack of helpfulness, except that Pome's post was relatively innocuous the first time.

[UncertainKitten]

JL's post is more problematic, but he posted it after Pome had already sorta let the cat out of the bag. I feel the same way about this Pome-JL post pair as I felt about the original Pome-JL post pair about Glock's lack of helpfulness, except that Pome's post was relatively innocuous the first time.

To be fair, it's not completely lost yet. Yes, it's risky, but as I said, you dump a player that you are likely to lose in the course of the game anyway.

I don't exactly think that the risk is as much as Pom states for the mafia team.

[Iecerint]

I think it would take a pretty clueless player to claim scum in response to a move like that from SK. Now that Pome has pointed that out for everyone, it would take a 100% clueless player. The trade-off is that it lets us publicly evaluate SK's claim without the awkwardness of nullifying SK's potential town gambit, but I think she should have at least given everyone more of a chance to post first.

Also, I dunno why she thinks that SK could be Cult-Leader-recruiting-mafia. Seeing that scum presumably knows scum, that seems like an impossible/difficult mechanic to balance. Could be that recruits become like Traitors, I guess, but that doesn't seem like a very default thesis to me.

I would vote her, but I am busy voting JL. <_<

[Glork]

I can't do what I wanted to do. I can do part of it, but not enough to make me especially happy.


01001001111001110010111001001010111100110010000001001011


I don't think I screwed that up, but I might have. Consider this a partial breadcrumb.

[UncertainKitten]

That number, split into octets is

01001001 11100111 00101110 01001010 11110011 00100000 01001011

This becomes, in decimal:

73 231 46 74 243 32 75

Any ideas what this means?

[Iecerint]

No idea. Alma posted something similar to confirm, though.

[Pomegranate]

I think it would take a pretty clueless player to claim scum in response to a move like that from SK. Now that Pome has pointed that out for everyone, it would take a 100% clueless player. The trade-off is that it lets us publicly evaluate SK's claim without the awkwardness of nullifying SK's potential town gambit, but I think she should have at least given everyone more of a chance to post first.

Also, I dunno why she thinks that SK could be Cult-Leader-recruiting-mafia. Seeing that scum presumably knows scum, that seems like an impossible/difficult mechanic to balance. Could be that recruits become like Traitors, I guess, but that doesn't seem like a very default thesis to me.

I would vote her, but I am busy voting JL. <_<

I never suggested a scumteam with cult recruitment mechanics.

[Vala Mal Doran]

Not a clue.

Iç.Jó K is the text version though, for whatever that's worth. <_<

[Iecerint]

About SB's ability:

It sounds like it could be a cult that

can

recruit mafia.

I was referring to this.

[UncertainKitten]

I think it would take a pretty clueless player to claim scum in response to a move like that from SK. Now that Pome has pointed that out for everyone, it would take a 100% clueless player. The trade-off is that it lets us publicly evaluate SK's claim without the awkwardness of nullifying SK's potential town gambit, but I think she should have at least given everyone more of a chance to post first.

Why would they have to be clueless? There's a risk/reward here that I think balances out for reward. Then again, maybe I just think weird. for what it's worth I'm not mafia so I really don't have any influence on that situation :S

Also, I dunno why she thinks that SK could be Cult-Leader-recruiting-mafia. Seeing that scum presumably knows scum, that seems like an impossible/difficult mechanic to balance. Could be that recruits become like Traitors, I guess, but that doesn't seem like a very default thesis to me.

You can do it by force replacing any recruited mafioso. That's how Tar handles it.

[Iecerint]

The likelihood that SK is actually a town-aligned player with that ability is low IMO. Why would he come out and claim it? It would be like claiming CL D1 in a town-cult game. If there are actually games with roles like the one SK is insinuating, please let me know.

I hadn't thought of force-replacing. I suppose that would work.

[Pomegranate]

About SB's ability:

It sounds like it could be a cult that

can

recruit mafia.

I was referring to this.

I know.

I suggested it because I was throwing out ideas from SB's claim. I can't think of how it would work though. UK made a suggestion though.

[UncertainKitten]

The likelihood that SK is actually a town-aligned player with that ability is low IMO. Why would he come out and claim it? It would be like claiming CL D1 in a town-cult game. If there are actually games with roles like the one SK is insinuating, please let me know.

I'd claim it as town. Honestly, get the mafia to come out, convert them, it's the best way for town to win.

That said, I'm terribly unsure how to balance it. It's a thought experiment I'd have to work on.

But, as I said, it fits the theme

...REALLY well