Mini 892 - Mayor Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Hoopla]

Umm, I was serious. You just fakeclaimed JOAT in that game.

Did she get away with it?

Kind of.

[MichelSableheart]

Eightteenth vote count of day 1:

charter (0)

kyle99 (4)

xRECKONERx, Socrates x2, nhammen

Moai Interceptor Cannons (0)

Debonair Danny DiPietro (0)

SerialClergyman (0)

Hoopla (3)

SerialClergyman, Moai Interceptor Cannons, MonkeyMan576

Socrates (0)

MonkeyMan576 (6)

Col.Cathart, kyle99, Debonair Danny DiPietro, charter, Hoopla, SaintKerrigan

xRECKONERx (0)

nhammen (0)

Col.Cathart (0)

SaintKerrigan (0)

Not voting anyone (0)

With 13 votes available, it takes 7 votes to lynch someone.

If at deadline no mayority has been reached, Socrates will decide who gets lynched, regardless of the vote count.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

Why does this make her more likely scum?

You're pushing 'too scummy to be scum' here. Hoopla was initially posting a whole lot of nothing, which I let her get away with due to her limited access. After she got back full access, her post was still a whole lot of pseudo-nothing, followed by a whole lot more of nothing accompanied by erratic shifts in stance. Hoopla's not scumhunting at all, I'm sure you've noted her stance of 'we're not likely to lynch scum today so let's not try at all'. While I see the point you're trying to make here, 'I wouldn't do that if I was scum in her place' is not the kind of reasoning I want to use to dismiss suspicions

ever

.

If you were scum, and a wagon happened that you have yet to take a side on went to a claim and that person claimed power, what would you do?

Obviously it's quite circumstantial, but I generally wouldn't change my stance from before the claim.

How about just on a gut level though? Would you be more surprised to see newbscum avoid a claimed power role like the plague, or to try and push such a wagon over the edge?

It depends on how 'newb' this newbscum is. If by 'newb' you mean 'doesn't really get how to optimally play the game', then I'd expect them to want to drive the wagon to a lynch. In fact I'd expect them to want to drive any non-scum wagon to a lynch. If they know enough to realise that 'looking town' is just as important as 'lynching town', then backing away from the wagon is the expected reaction. Well more like 'going with the majority of the town' actually. I DUNNO!

As long as Socrates doesn't change his mind and Nhammen keeps to his word of not voting Monkey, that last vote shouldn't materialise. In the meantime, HOOPLA INTERROGATION TIME. @Hoopla, if not for self-preservation (say you were the mayor), who would you want to lynch and why? Also, how convinced are you of Monkey's scumminess (and why)?

[Col.Cathart]

Monkey:

Not true, not true and not true. I've defended myself very appropriately, it's just that most of the attacks against me have been entirely baseless.

a) Eh? First, you were using 'I was at L-1' defense. I told you, it meant nothing, as we were far from choosing the mayor. Then you said, there wasn't anything like that in the rules, and you were quickly proven wrong. Then you pulled out 'I don't care, I was at L-1 anyway.'

this is a bullshit stance. You claim, when you're dangerously close to lynch. I understand normal L-1, or even L-2 in situation when most of the town thinks, you're scum (like in my case in Commie Mafia), but we were light years off the mayor selection, so you had PLENTY of time to defend yourself, instead of claiming.

b) The shortest version of our discussion:

MM: I was at L-1
CC: So? You were far from lynch.
MM: Not true!
CC: True (*proves*)
MM: I don't care. I was at L-1!

Really awful explanation, and sort of a backtrack here. I still don't like it at all, and I still think you're scum.

Hoopla:

Well, maybe Socrates is, but I'm not getting it (probably, because I'm not a native English speaker, and I probably lost something in translation), so it would be nice to explain, as I see a blatant lie here so far...

[MonkeyMan576]

I can't believe you guys are letting Hoopla live after she lied about her meta and I was honest about mine. That should tell you something.

[SaintKerrigan]

Unvote: MonkeyMan576. Vote: Hoopla.

Who said we were?

I also just realized how heavily Hoopla is appealing to emotion, what with saying she screwed it up for the town and such things.

[nhammen]

As long as Socrates doesn't change his mind and Nhammen keeps to his word of not voting Monkey, that last vote shouldn't materialise.

Do you know something I don't? Because there are other people that could change votes too.

a) Eh? First, you were using 'I was at L-1' defense. I told you, it meant nothing, as we were far from choosing the mayor. Then you said, there wasn't anything like that in the rules, and you were quickly proven wrong. Then you pulled out 'I don't care, I was at L-1 anyway.'

Do you honestly think he was lying about that? It looked to me that whether he was scum or town, he thought he was near lynch.

[charter]

a) Eh? First, you were using 'I was at L-1' defense. I told you, it meant nothing, as we were far from choosing the mayor. Then you said, there wasn't anything like that in the rules, and you were quickly proven wrong. Then you pulled out 'I don't care, I was at L-1 anyway.'

Do you honestly think he was lying about that? It looked to me that whether he was scum or town, he thought he was near lynch.

Doesn't matter if he's lying about it or not, since there's really no way to prove that. The point is that he is using a cop claim as a defense, which should not save him.

Still waiting to hear what Hoopla comes up with before I pass judgment.

[Socrates]

I do find Hoopla's BLATANT LIES to be obnoxious, and I don't know what to make of it or whether I should put any weight behind it. I would like to hear how she justifies that comment at any rate.

[Moai Interceptor Cannons]

As long as Socrates doesn't change his mind and Nhammen keeps to his word of not voting Monkey, that last vote shouldn't materialise.

Do you know something I don't? Because there are other people that could change votes too.

Reckoner wants Kyle lynched, he wouldn't. Serial wants Hoopla lynched but would prefer Kyle over Monkey, he wouldn't. I'm the same as Serial, I wouldn't. And Monkey obviously wouldn't. No, I don't think anyone else would change votes.

[Socrates]

You're pushing 'too scummy to be scum' here. Hoopla was initially posting a whole lot of nothing, which I let her get away with due to her limited access. After she got back full access, her post was still a whole lot of pseudo-nothing, followed by a whole lot more of nothing accompanied by erratic shifts in stance. Hoopla's not scumhunting at all, I'm sure you've noted her stance of 'we're not likely to lynch scum today so let's not try at all'. While I see the point you're trying to make here, 'I wouldn't do that if I was scum in her place' is not the kind of reasoning I want to use to dismiss suspicions ever.

Its not the "Too scummy" defense", its the "There's no scum motivation here." defense. I don't think her actions are actually indicative of alignment. You haven't explained why her terrible reads on Charter and Serial are more likely to come from scum than town. Her reads of Charter and SerialClergyman ARE attempts to scumhunt, regardless of how weak the reasoning behind them are.

I will give you that she didn't try to do anything more than that after, and her push on Monkey is primarily fueled by self preservation, and I am certainly not going to argue that her play has been pro-town, but I really think there is more weight behind Kyle's case, who has also failed to scumhunt pretty spectacularly, if you are going to take that tack.

[MonkeyMan576]

Lying isn't indicative of alignment? Why would a townie feel the need to hide information and blatantly lie?

[nhammen]

Lying isn't indicative of alignment? Why would a townie feel the need to hide information and blatantly lie?

Why would scum?

[MonkeyMan576]

Lying isn't indicative of alignment? Why would a townie feel the need to hide information and blatantly lie?

Why would scum?

Because the meta might be indicative of their scumminess, obviously. If it was indicative of their towniness, they wouldn't lie.

[SerialClergyman]

The question is asked like that because in this case there's no benefit to scum. Hoopla has JUST PLAYED a game with about 5 of us where she obviously fakeclaimed as scum. She had no reason to expect to get away with that joke (I am 90% sure it's a joke, not a lie). So there's no scum reason or town reason to bring down the wrath of the town upon her, thus you can't determine alignment from it.

Essentially, you're saying that Hoopla is scum because she's stupid enough to think that 5 people in this game that saw her fakeclaim last game wouldn't remember, let alone that anyone would meta her years of games on this site, and would then think more highly of her. I can assure you that's exactly not what Hoopla was thinking.

That comment is a red herring, nothing more.

I'm feeling the need for a lynch. Anyone else prepared to compromise?

[MonkeyMan576]

The question is asked like that because in this case there's no benefit to scum. Hoopla has JUST PLAYED a game with about 5 of us where she obviously fakeclaimed as scum. She had no reason to expect to get away with that joke (I am 90% sure it's a joke, not a lie). So there's no scum reason or town reason to bring down the wrath of the town upon her, thus you can't determine alignment from it.

Essentially, you're saying that Hoopla is scum because she's stupid enough to think that 5 people in this game that saw her fakeclaim last game wouldn't remember, let alone that anyone would meta her years of games on this site, and would then think more highly of her. I can assure you that's exactly not what Hoopla was thinking.

That comment is a red herring, nothing more.

I'm feeling the need for a lynch. Anyone else prepared to compromise?

i don't know what Hoopla was thinking, all I know is that lying is usually bad. Are you saying that people with experience aren't subject to meta?

[SerialClergyman]

Socrates - I officially direct my vote in your direction. I tire of this situation.
Tell me where you want my vote and i shall place it there, my elected official.

[Socrates]

I'm about ready to give up on Kyle. Post 630 makes me really, really, want a wagon on Saint at some point, but I probably wont get it today.

I will move my vote, I am just not sure on who yet. Let me get back to you later.

[SerialClergyman]

*salutes*

[xRECKONERx]

Don't do it, Socrates. Keep up the fight. If we keep the votes on him and we don't get a lynch, our mayor can declare a lynch on him anyway.

[MonkeyMan576]

I also will vote for either Hoopla or Kyle, whichever the Mayor wishes.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Find it rather lame that others are willing to turn over their votes to a third party, way to avoid having to stand behind your own opinion.

[Hoopla]

HOOPLA INTERROGATION TIME. @Hoopla, if not for self-preservation (say you were the mayor), who would you want to lynch and why? Also, how convinced are you of Monkey's scumminess (and why)?

That's a difficult hypothetical to place myself into. For one, I'd need to be considered pro-town enough by the majority to be elected mayor, which would nullify my suspicions of SC, as they have come solely from the negative reactions I've received from my play.

Monkeyman is scummy to me - like I've said in other posts, I'm still unsure what the correct play is regarding Day 1 cop claims, but I'm inclined to think they need to be lynched if they're scummy enough, as their value diminishes a lot being outed. The timing of his claim, and the limited knowledge I have of Monkeyman's scum/powerrole play is good enough reason to support his lynch.

If I had more influence in the town, I'd probably still lynch Monkeyman, or even someone like kyle.

[Hoopla]

Unvote: MonkeyMan576. Vote: Hoopla.

Who said we were?

I also just realized how heavily Hoopla is appealing to emotion, what with saying she screwed it up for the town and such things.

Why are you only now catching/commenting on dated material? It looks as if you're trying to find an excuse to get on my wagon and/or get off Monkeyman's.

[MichelSableheart]

Socrates has been prodded for not sending in a successor list.