Mini 857 Disney Movie Mafia 2 - The Classics (Roll Credits)

[Crazy]

Why was Jazz trying to save Gorrad (both sooo late and quite ineffectively by also not doing anything herself to support the idea, i.e. moving her vote to help save him) a town tell for you Crazy?

Trying to save him is strictly more townish than not trying to save him, isn't it?

[semioldguy]

I didn't see anyway Gorrad would have been saved with such little time left and such little activity in the thread as deadline approached. Looked to me like an attempt to appear townish rather than actually being town. Just my interpretation though.

[MonkeyMan576]

Nice game, mod. Sorry I couldn't have lived longer. I need to work on my day one strategy.

[Neopi]

Mind you, it wasnt my idea to kill chamber.

[Neopi]

Mafia QT
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/LZVHrhcSMbXR

[Starbuck]

The activity of this scumgroup really disappointed me.

While yes, you guys did win, but you did it by lurking and that's definitely against the spirit of the game in my eyes. I know Jazzmyn had a death in the family, but I did too. I'm still home in Connecticut currently, gonna be flying back to Sicily tomorrow.

[Starbuck]

I see some things were edited in the QT because they may have been offensive towards myself. The rules of Mafiascum extend to the QTs, and I would hope players know this.

But a little known fact about me is that when I'm a VT, I really don't care. I'll throw out that off the wall theory, I'll do my best to try and help my town get a win, and if I can be spot on enough to figure out the scum then maybe I can draw an NK to myself and have scum worried that I'm really not a VT. I know that my death will save a potential town PR.

[Kublai Khan]

The activity of this scumgroup really disappointed me.

While yes, you guys did win, but you did it by lurking and that's definitely against the spirit of the game in my eyes. I know Jazzmyn had a death in the family, but I did too. I'm still home in Connecticut currently, gonna be flying back to Sicily tomorrow.

No offense Starbuck, but you're starting to come across as a poor loser. Our goal was to win the game. If that means holding back from posting in order to fly under radars, then so be it. Your job as town is to prevent people from doing that.

Personally, I don't feel I lurked in this game. Due to the time constraints of my real life (2 jobs, wife is 9 months pregnant, Thanksgiving, etc.) I think I participated as much as I could. I don't usually post more than once or twice a day, so anytime you suckered me into a give and take, then that's a boon on you because I'm usually very careful about what I post (town or scum), and self-edit a lot.

And I'm sorry about the death in your family. My thoughts and well-wishes are with you.

I see some things were edited in the QT because they may have been offensive towards myself. The rules of Mafiascum extend to the QTs, and I would hope players know this.

Heh. Never noticed that. IIRC she was just frustrated after the big quote wars you guys had the previous day. Wasn't anything major and she edited herself way before the QT was made public.

Speaking of which...

Mafia QT
http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/LZVHrhcSMbXR

You're kind of a jerk for making the thread public despite the fact that we decided we didn't want it so. I understand that you're pissed about being hung out to dry after making the chamber-kill, but you have to realize that your death made Brandi/me look more townie and ultimately helped us win the game.

Yeah, you took one for the team, but when your team wins all members of that team living or dead share in that victory.. So congrats and good game.

[Starbuck]

For one, Kublai, I definitely wasn't talking about you when it comes to lurking. I'm also not trying to be a sore loser, but lurking is against the spirit of the game. When you join a game, you are supposed to be active. You make that commitment prior to whatever role you receive in your inbox.

Also, I've never seen a game where the scum QT wasn't made public after the fact. Why would you guys want to hide it?

[Starbuck]

I also feel that if someone has a problem with my play, tell me what you didn't like. Tell me what I can do to get better. Give me constructive criticism rather than be insulting. I go out of my way to try to not offend anyone, but this is mafia, and you always end up offending someone whether you mean to or not.

[semioldguy]

I think it was fairly obvious who the scum were on the last day. Both Kublai Khan and Jazzmyn had several self contradictions (which were pointed out and they were unable to address). Giving a reason for not being in thread and such is not an excuse for a self-contradiction. Basically their words and actions did not line up, what they said was not supported by what they did.

This game should be another note to myself that I need to be better at persuading players to my cases. In many of the games I have lost as town I have scum pegged but am unable to convince others. Of my three suspects day two, both mafia were among them. :/

[chamber]

I also feel that if someone has a problem with my play, tell me what you didn't like. Tell me what I can do to get better. Give me constructive criticism rather than be insulting. I go out of my way to try to not offend anyone, but this is mafia, and you always end up offending someone whether you mean to or not.

I don't think you intend to be, which actually makes it more offencive, but you are extremely abrasive. I don't know how you can change that though if you already actively try not to be.

[Starbuck]

The whole Day 1 thing with Monkey got way out of hand. It didn't help that others were instigating and pushing it along either.


See, I feel I'm honest, I don't beat around the bush. This is the first time I have ever in my life been called abrasive. I don't feel I am.

[Jazzmyn]

The activity of this scumgroup really disappointed me.

While yes, you guys did win, but you did it by lurking and that's definitely against the spirit of the game in my eyes. I know Jazzmyn had a death in the family, but I did too.

I hope you aren't referring to me with that "lurking" comment, Starbuck, because if you are, you're way out of line.

Also, since you seem to be bringing up your great-grandmother's death in all of your current games, I feel compelled to note that I extended my sympathies to you during the game when your great-grandmother died, but you never once did the same when my brother died.

No offence intended, but there's quite a difference between a great-grandparent dying and a sibling dying. I sincerely hope that you never have to learn the difference first hand.

I see some things were edited in the QT because they may have been offensive towards myself. The rules of Mafiascum extend to the QTs, and I would hope players know this.

It was nothing much really, and it was far, far milder than the invective that you have directed towards other players in this game, and it certainly didn't breach the MS rules in any way, so you shouldn't sweat it. It's just that I realized that it could be construed as insulting (deservedly so, in my view) toward you so I didn't wish to leave it there because that's not my style. I edited it shortly after I wrote it in the scum chat, quite some time ago.

But if you really must know, the truth is that I find you to be one of the rudest and most obnoxious players that I've ever had the misfortune to play with, and I will avoid playing in games with you in the future.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

EBWOP: I do not wish for any of this to distract from the great game that this was or the terrific job that the game mod, LlamaFluff, did in making it so. But Starbuck just really annoyed me with her comments. I probably should have just ignored them and I will do so going forward.

So, back to the game: good game, all, and many thanks to LlamaFluff.


Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

EBWOP #2: and yeah, Neopi, as Kublai Khan said, you really are kind of a jerk. I hope you learn from this game.

Regards,
Jazz

[Starbuck]

Jazzmyn, it's more Brandi and Neopi with the lurking than you. I understand your situation because I was dealing with the exact same thing. Personally, my great-grandmother RAISED me, I was closer to her than I am to my mother, so to even try and say that it's different offends me.

Wow, Jazzmyn, I definitely don't feel the same about you. I enjoyed playing with you. It's unfortunate that you haven't played with me in other games and will refuse to in the future.

It saddens me that you can't let the heat of a mafia game go.

[LlamaFluff]

@Llama
The only complaint I have about the setup is that it allowed two players (Starbuck and I) to both still be playing when it was essentially impossible for us to win. That hurt the fun for me a bit, playing to win when I know I can't and knowing that I have to still keep playing. To be honest what I was thinking is that the only way I couldn't lose was to request to be replaced out, which I obviously didn't want to do because it's not playing to win or in the spirit of the game. The anti-town roles should be constructed in such a way that town (or any alignment) shouldn't be 100% out of a win at any point in my opinion if they are still playing. With both Day killing and kill immune SK, there was no chance for a real cross-kill to potentially bring town back into the game.

The fact that there were two mislynches, two successful kills (even N1 when about a third of the game was unkillable), the only investigative role lynched D1, and a SK of town D1 hurt the town a whole lot. When Crazy decided to make it a 2-2-1 scenario instead of a 3-1-1, it effectively ended the game for the town outside of a scum lynch, no kill and crazy hitting scum with his daykill.

Any NK-immune SK should almost never aim for scum, since killing the townies early on increase the chances of an SK win drastically. Get scum on the lynches and town on your kills. (which is why I really don't like night kill immunity in any variety in minis to begin with, because it skews the balance to much with so few players) I mean, if you have a five-player endgame scenario, chances are greater than half that the Night Kill-immune player is still alive if everything assumed random, since he couldn't have been night killed. This generally makes the win condition for at least one faction practically unwinnable. Not the same case with a 20 player game, since it's much harder to make it to end game (still don't like night kill immunity on any role though), more through personal opinion.

This games swing was highly effected by the moves of the SK. If they went tighter and tried to take out town instead of scum, it gave the town (and I think theory says SK) a higher win chance. If they went for a few scum kills to try and keep the game out of lylo, it gave the town a better win chance, dropped SK slightly, but stopped any chance of being endgamed.

I never expected the SK to play how he did D1 though. I figured it would be basically a double lynching aspect where the first person to claim gets killed, then town uses that information to get a second lynch and pull a whole lot more information out.

Please be civil too, even in postgame talk.

I am poking around with my next game on the list going between a few core ideas. So watch for Disney 3 - The Invasion (right now mini, might become large), coming to forums this spring.

[Kublai Khan]

The Day SK feels like he'd be better in a larger game, and should probably have had his win conditions tweaked a bit to allow for a townie victory. I can understand semioldguy's frustration at the PD he faced at the end of the game. If you did something like strip the Day-SK of his vote after he attempts a day-kill, you'd put a pretty decent restricting that forces the DAY-SK to be much more conservative and careful with his day-kill and it would allow a townie to win if it were down to 1 Town:1 SK. Or you could have allowed the Pharmacist to hand out day-protects to keep the DAY-SK's kills potentially in check.

I really liked the Progressive Townie role, but it's a hella swingy role. If ZONEACE or YankCank151 had died early on, then that would have put town at a disadvantage. Late in the game, it made curiouskarmadog one of the most powerful town characters and a big target for Crazy. If he had kept quiet about his ability and stayed stingy with his vote, he could have been the deciding factor in the game.

The Innocent Child role is fantastic, though. And StrangerCoug played it really well. If he was alive during endgame (instead of Starbuck or semioldguy), Jazzmyn & I would have been in a very tough spot.

Regarding the mafia.. I disagree with Starbuck in that I don't think they were too over-powered. It would have been a very over-powered mafia if there were cops to fool and bamboozle, but they were pretty well matched with the power roles that town had. The Innocent Child role was immune to track/watch/roleblock. The Progressive Townie fooled the Scent Sniffer on N1. The Pharmacist had potential to block their night-kills and was the biggest threat/target for the mafia. The limited watcher was only a threat/target to the mafia if a mafioso was lynched, and in that scenario, the abilities of the mafia are already restricted.

All in all, a good setup, LlamaFluff. The only thing I would have changed would be to put limitation(s) on the Day-SK.

I am poking around with my next game on the list going between a few core ideas. So watch for Disney 3 - The Invasion (right now mini, might become large), coming to forums this spring.

pre-/in for the trifecta. (time permitting, of course)

[Kmd4390]

Crazy, why me Day 1?

[MeMe]

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