Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)


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Post Post #900 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:50 am

Post by dramonic »

Sorry, was on V/LA...

The Eleventh Votecount: This is NOT a Hammer!


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Netopalis (6): Ellibereth, ABR, Ojanen, DarkLightA, Saberwolf, SC
ABR (1): Netopalis
SerialClergyman (1): Farside
Kikuchiyo (1): hewitt
Not Voting (2): KittyMo, Kikuchiyo


With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is the 23rd at 23:59!


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Post Post #901 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:57 am

Post by DarkLightA »

dramonic wrote:This is NOT a Hammer!
Oh... Anyone in for voting?
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Post Post #902 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 7:59 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Unvote


Wait. I want to hear from Ojanen and KittyMo.
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Post Post #903 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:01 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Netopalis wrote:...and most of you now go on my "I refuse to play with you" list...

Especially you, Albert. Love ya, but our playstyles are like oil and water.
You have a crazy scummy playstyle then, and I'm hammering you shortly.
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Post Post #904 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:02 am

Post by dramonic »

KittyMo is currently experiencing connection issues.
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Post Post #905 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:03 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Replace her then?
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Post Post #906 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:12 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

farside22 wrote:
abr wrote:Farside and Shotty both took their time to look at you, and they said they saw where I was coming from. Ojanen evidently thought you were scummy on her own as well.
this is false. I never said anything about neto. Whatever he flips I said I would look into it but didn't see a case.
Typo. What I meant was:"Farside and Shotty both took their time to look at you, and Shotty said he saw where I was coming from."
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Post Post #907 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:14 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Anyway, whatever, it would be nice to hear what farside22, Shotty, Ojanen and Kittymo have to say. Kiku, when will you stop lurking?

Vote Netopalis
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Post Post #908 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 8:55 am

Post by farside22 »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:Anyway, whatever, it would be nice to hear what farside22, Shotty, Ojanen and Kittymo have to say. Kiku, when will you stop lurking?

Vote Netopalis

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Post Post #909 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:09 am

Post by Netopalis »

I still maintain that I'm not exactly sure why I'm being lynched. This wagon is made of pliable people, people who feel pressured and ABR, who seems to thoroughly enjoy playing chess with the opinions of the manipulable.
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Post Post #910 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:10 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Netopalis has been acting freaking weird all game. He has attacked almost nobody in the beginning, except for a few weak attacks on saber and DLA which totally fails to impress me. Says DLA plays scummy all the time, then threatens to puts a weaksauce vote on DLA if it doesn't put him in the danger zone. He comes back after some time and says he doesn't like Ellibereth putting hewitt at L-1, but then he threatens to hammer hewitt after a few questions are answered. Please take note what these questions actually are:
Netopalis' first question wrote:Wow....Just wow. Bitter much, Hewitt?
Netopalis' second question wrote:ABR, I know it's kind of pointless now, but can you please explain why you originally suspected him?
Since I've already posted bricks of evidence on hewitt, Neto comes off an awfully lot like scum looking for an excuse to hammer, the excuse here being "all his questions were answered and he was satisfied". I immediately spot this so I stall for time.

12 hours have passed, Neto realizes that I'm not going to provide him with the excuse to hammer any time soon, so he goes back to voting Ellibereth. Now keep in mind that Neto was almost going to hammer hewitt, yet in this post, he claims to not have seen my case on hewitt nor having a good understanding of why hewitt was suspected, requiring him to read hewitt in iso. IOW, Neto was going to hammer hewitt with no idea whatsoever why hewitt was scummy. This is also where Neto starts to get hostile with me for not having given him an easy excuse to hammer and end the day. Then Nets goes and equates CSL to DLA, then says CSL is better than DLA. He then got even more pissed off at me for not replying to a question he should have already known the answer to. This culminates in a vote. Goes on to say that I attacked hewitt for no real reason, which is just absurd, and shows just how little he is involved in the game. He has a strong emotional reaction to my post condemning SC for replacing CSL, and this is where he starts his campaign to wipe CSL's slate clean. Anyway, he claims that his "serious accusation" vote was just a vote to accentuate a point (he still wants to know why I suspected hewitt). He basically lied about his vote. He goes on and on, back to saber, then again to me, defends clergyman some more, derails the thread, denies having ever tried to policy lynch saber or DLA, puts the blame on me, lies again about his first vote on me as he can't seem to decide whether he voted me seriously or to make me answer why I think hewitt is scummy which I stated over 20 pages ago.

TL;DR

-Neto's suspicions amount to DLA, Ellibereth and saber because they are easy lynches, and myself because I didn't give him an excuse to hammer hewitt.

-He outright lies several times about his first vote on me, trying to reconstruct the past into fitting whichever way he comes off looking the least scummy

-He buddies up with clergyman many times

-He derails the thread to belittle Ellibereth and saber

Basically, his entire play amounts to "saber, DLA, Ellibereth and CSL are bad players, and I'm angry at ABR". A monkey would have done a better job scumhunting, I swear.

Now I urge all of you to wait for KittyMo and Ojanen to come back before hammering. We still have 10 days until deadline and I want to see at least a little something from Kitty's slot.
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Post Post #911 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:13 am

Post by hewitt »

Huh, finally a case that's actually spelled out and understandable. It's actually a pretty good case now that someone has taken the time to explain it thoroughly.
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Post Post #912 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:22 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Netopalis wrote:I still maintain that I'm not exactly sure why I'm being lynched. This wagon is made of pliable people, people who feel pressured and ABR, who seems to thoroughly enjoy playing chess with the opinions of the manipulable.
Ellibereth and Ojanen led the bulk of the vanguard against you. I just hammered the final nail in the coffin.
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Post Post #913 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:22 am

Post by Netopalis »

Now, Albert, was that so hard?

My responses:
DLA, Elibereth and Saber are easy lynches
because they were acting scummy
. Therefore, is it not logical that I would
find them to be scummy?
Should I attack the strongest players because they are not acting scummy and thus aren't easy targets?

*shrugs* Originally, my vote was an encouragement for you to act. Yes, I find you to be scummy, because I find people who don't explain their actions to be scummy. I've stated this opinion in multiple games, regardless of my role in those games. The two reasons are not entirely mutually exclusive, although I will admit that the second post was a bit of a mistake.

As far as buddying up with Clergyman, I guess it's more because I can sympathize with his position, having played with CSL so many times and having seen how they generally ended up with mislynches. He's stuck in a tough position due to the actions of a poor player who gets lynched regardless of his role. It seems that, knowing this, we should probably evaluate his status based on his actions and not on a player who is almost always lynched regardless of his role.

My berating of Elibereth and Saber was an attempt to encourage them to improve their play and take the game seriously. I tried asking them. I tried holding their hands. I tried voting. I really don't know what else I could do to get them to play the game right.

I suck at D1, I admit it. I work best on D2-3 because there is enough evidence there to work on. However, the vast majority of this game has been me trying to defend myself against claims, so I haven't had a great deal of opportunity to advance my own arguments.
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Post Post #914 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:24 am

Post by Netopalis »

Oh, and some further points on CSL...I compiled his history at this site just to make sure that I wasn't wholly off point.

N830 - Lynched D1
N852 - Survived and won
Normal 102 - Replaced
N834 - Replaced
N839 - Lynched D2
Stars Aligned - Lynched D4 (Same day as he replaced in)
O185 - Lynched D1
O162 - Lynched D1, claimed scum
O165 - Replaced (Due to banning due to the breakage of the night-talking rule)
O167 - Replaced
M847 - Replaced
N806 - Lynched D3 (same day as he replaced in)
M105 - Lynched D1
N824 - Lynched D1
N825 - Lynched D3
O177 - Replaced
M102 - Replaced
O185 - Lynched D1


(N=Newbie, Normal = Normal, M = Mini)

Lynched D1 or same day that he replaced into - 8 times (44%)
Replaced - 7 times (38%)
Lynched later or won - 3 (16%)

Total games: 18


He's been scum in 2 of those games. Thus, if you're lynching CSL on D1, the chances are that, more likely than not, it is a mislynch.
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Post Post #915 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:28 am

Post by Ellibereth »

Neto, that's a pointless statistic.
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Post Post #916 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:30 am

Post by Netopalis »

I don't think so. In fact, I think it illustrates my point rather well.
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Post Post #917 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:33 am

Post by hewitt »

Ellibereth wrote:Neto, that's a pointless statistic.
Do I even need to say this again? I think you're a pointless player.
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Post Post #918 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:34 am

Post by Netopalis »

Let me elaborate a bit more:

The argument is that SC is scummy because CSL was scummy.

My statistic shows that CSL will be found scummy whether or not he is scum-aligned.

Therefore, CSL's scumminess is not a good predictor of scumminess.

Therefore, SC should be evaluated without CSL's posts taken into account.
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Post Post #919 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:39 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Netopalis wrote:Now, Albert, was that so hard?
Irrelevant. I delayed posting my case because I didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea that other players were just following me.
Netopalis wrote:DLA, Elibereth and Saber are easy lynches
because they were acting scummy
. Therefore, is it not logical that I would
find them to be scummy?
Should I attack the strongest players because they are not acting scummy and thus aren't easy targets?
Irrelevant. You supported policy lynching saber here. Then you claim to have never supported any policy lynching here.

Netopalis wrote:Originally, my vote was an encouragement for you to act. Yes, I find you to be scummy, because I find people who don't explain their actions to be scummy.
Irrelevant. You flip-flopped back and forth between reasons why you were voting me to suit your agenda. It doesn't matter whether it was one or the other, the bottom line is that you attempted to re-write the past, effectively lying about it.
Netopalis wrote: As far as buddying up with Clergyman, I guess it's more because I can sympathize with his position, having played with CSL so many times and having seen how they generally ended up with mislynches.
Your sympathy is irrelevant. You were already defending CSL over DLA far before clergyman every replaced in.
Netopalis wrote:My berating of Elibereth and Saber was an attempt to encourage them to improve their play and take the game seriously. I tried asking them. I tried holding their hands. I tried voting. I really don't know what else I could do to get them to play the game right.
Irrelevant. They are both voting scum now.
Netopalis wrote:I suck at D1, I admit it.
Relevant :)
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Post Post #920 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:39 am

Post by DarkLightA »

Okay, great. So now we've evaluated CS and agree with you, and therefore we decide that it's a better bet to lynch you. Happy?
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Post Post #921 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:42 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

I see that you have still not addressed why you were going to hammer hewitt without reasoning, but I guess it's impossible for you to answer that without claiming scum.
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Post Post #922 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:50 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

hewitt wrote:
Ellibereth wrote:Neto, that's a pointless statistic.
Do I even need to say this again? I think you're a pointless player.
Every 5 post you are spitting venom at Ellibereth because he's new. Were you so hurt in your first game here that you have to insult every new player you come across? Is this your sense of justice?

Shut the fuck up.
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Post Post #923 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:17 am

Post by farside22 »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:I see that you have still not addressed why you were going to hammer hewitt without reasoning, but I guess it's impossible for you to answer that without claiming scum.
I would like to see an answer to this.
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Post Post #924 (ISO) » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:36 am

Post by Netopalis »

Oh. I guess I never did post that. My apologies. To make a long story short, I really didn't like his defenses. He seemed to be more panicked at the slightest hint of suspicion than I would expect a townie to be. I also feel that he didn't answer the questions directed at him very well.

As for Ellibereth, I'm not attacking him because he's new, I'm attacking him because 95% of his posts show that he hasn't been reading the game. If it were simple newbishness, I could understand. This, however, appears to be more of a willful apathy towards the game.
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