Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)

[farside22]

Ugh, interrupted.
Will continue this in a sec with content (cases);
towns came first because they were easier to write and I operate a lot by process of elimination.]

Reading is tech, Neto.
Will come in a couple of hours when I'm alone again.

Why vote now? Why not wait till the read is complete?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Ugh, interrupted.
Will continue this in a sec with content (cases);
towns came first because they were easier to write and I operate a lot by process of elimination.]

Reading is tech, Neto.
Will come in a couple of hours when I'm alone again.

Why vote now? Why not wait till the read is complete?

It seems she already finished her read but was interrupted while she was writing her cases.

[Netopalis]

But had time to chastize me for not reading her post?

[Netopalis]

EBWODP: At least, I assume that's what she means by saying that it's "tech".

[Albert B. Rampage]

Yes, Neto. Chastising you is so easy it's the opposite of time-consuming.

[Netopalis]

*shrugs* I enjoy using more vibrant words.

[Ojanen]

Why vote now? Why not wait till the read is complete?

You misunderstood. I was referring to Neto not reading my post. I was done with the read, how else could have I given my stances on everyone.
I just got interrupted, didn't have time to write out more.

Should probably mention though that I've only skimmed very superficially the very last couple pages, got sick of reading and there was a lot of fluff, but will read the content amongst it again later.

Netopalis

The early stuff is very noncommittal. As an example post:

DLA...ugh. I know that last time we lynched him for play like this and he was the doc, but his play is just so...terrible...ugh.
The relationship among Kikuchiyo/Shotty/Saber/Konowa seems to be very interesting. If any of them are scum, we'll need to reexamine these posts very closely.

Initially meta-defends DLA, then fluffs on that. A bunch of drama among players; his stance is an extremely lame comment to it taking no sides.

I will vote DLA if the vote count shows that it would not put him in the danger zone.
Essentlally, I find that the whole "lynch me if you want" mentality is used by scum primarily. Due to the fact that scum's goal is survival, it is a way for them to appear town by making it look like they're playing against their goal - or for the town one. Overall, I really don't like his posts - even given that I played with him before and I posted the stuff about his meta.

Soon turns his back on the DLA meta; part of this is how violently I disagree with most of his reads early, but the way he wants to get on the bandwagon if it's not a dangerous vote and the need to mention the earlier meta stuff to stay consistent in the stuff he fluffed on, this is a scummy way of looking to bandwagon.

His take on the hewitt vs. Albert thing:

Wow....Just wow. Bitter much, Hewitt?
I have to throw in analysis of two players here...I think that their acts are extremely important.
First, Hewitt. Hewitt's overly aggressive defense is more than a bit troublesome, as are his bitter tirades towards the latter half of the game as it stands. I would not have suspected him had we not gotten into all of this with him.
That being said, I also have to post a few things about ABR....I really don't like ABR's statement asking people to pick whether they would lynch him or Hewitt. To me, that seems like scum that has found an easy target, but is too lazy to substantiate a claim. I know that ABR is an extremely lazy player (Love ya, but you are...) so this may just be his modus operandi, but I think that there may be something behind it.
First stop for the lynch wagon is, of course, Hewitt. ABR, I know it's kind of pointless now, but can you please explain why you originally suspected him? This is more so that I can analyze your play than it is so that I can analyze his.
Withholding a vote until questions are answered. Once I'm satisfied, I'll be happy to drop the hammer.

This would be very convenient for scum. Hewitt is scummy. ABR is quite scummy too.
First stop of lynching wagon is nonetheless hewitt (not substantiated very much why). Wants questions answered, but it reads like he would have already decided to hammer anyway. Has a taste of chaining Albert if hewitt is town.
Further developments muddy the dual setting there, he ends up voting Ellibereth soon and the readiness to hammer hewitt changes to needing to iso him, but I didn't like that reaction to the original conflict.

I don't especially like that he expresses willingness to policy lynch all of CSL, DLA and saber at different points.
I don't especially like that he asks for a while and votes ABR based on wanting a case on hewitt Albert has already made.
Oh, and some further vibes of the subtle chaining lynches too:

Now I'm turning my vote into something a bit more serious. ABR has been all over the chart today in regards to hewitt. Originally, he attacks him for no real reason. Now, he's buddying up to him like they've been best friends since time immemorial. I really think that this deserves a bit of explanation.

Still maintain that he's not the play today...but perhaps tomorrow.

His vote is not where he wants to lynch, btw. Overall his votes have an amount of disconnect to the suspicions he expresses from iso view.

Later:

Neto continues to perplex with yet another vote on ABR, this one for full serious. Points for balls, negative points for stupidity/wrongness. I can garuantee with 95% certainty that Albert is town.

I really disagreed with this, Serial. In your catch up you critisized Neto for going after easy targets. To this Neto replied seriously, and then very soon went after ABR with this post:

[snip]
Unvote, Vote: Albert B. Rampage
I unvoted earlier because I wasn't serious about the lynch. I am now. Albert will be extremely, extremely dangerous to the town if he continues to play as he is doing right now. People follow him largely without question - even if it means jumping off cliffs like so many lemmings. The way that he stays on people *just* long enough to establish him going after them later is rather bothersome to me - it seems almost as if he is trying to determine who he wants rid of and set the stage for their lynch in the future. Until he remedies this behavior, I will have him on my scum list and am adding him to the growing number of people that I would be willing to lynch today

.
Especially the last sentence feels very off; he's adding Albert to the people he wants to lynch but doesn't substantiate why he's voting Albert over the rest of the list. This vote at this point just felt like a complete response to the accusation, a remedy attempt rather than scumhunting.

Blah. I've got to go again, but yeah, Neto is overall just exhibiting this carpet of alien behaviour, plus lots of small content.
kiku is hellishly vague.
Shotty is more conventionally scummy but I'm more uncertain of him in my gut.
Will elaborate, but later.

[hewitt]

kiku is hellishly vague.

Understatement of the year! Not only is kiku vague but they're deliberately not posting any substance to make themselves forgettable so they can slide right under the radar onto tomorrow without any limelight or heat on them at all.

[Ellibereth]

Hewitt, I clearly wrote out reasons in 669.
As a matter of fact Ojanen's came seems to be the almost the same, just using more words.

[Netopalis]

In re: DLA argument, I said in the thread that I probably wasn't the best predictor of his flip due to the fact that we played together before, so I was being intentionally noncommittal because I didn't want that fact to adversely effect the town.

In re: Taking no sides on drama, I didn't want that drama to keep the town busy all day. If I had commented and encouraged it, we'd still be involved in those pointless arguments.

Convenient? Perhaps, but it's true. I, at the time, understood and accepted the arguments against Hewitt advanced by other people. However, I am constantly suspicious of people who place serious votes and expect others to follow without substantiation. Albert does this repeatedly throughout the game. That's my only real problem with him - I find it to be an anti-town action, and I am stymied that anybody follows it.

In re: voting Albert after questioning, I consider the vote to be as much of a social tool as it is an actual mechanism to lynch. I'm not sure what I was supposed to do otherwise if I wanted Albert to answer my question - I'd asked him 3 times and he had ignored me each time. I was hoping that the vote would bring it a bit more to the forefront.

In re: Policy lynches, I stand by my earlier comments - D1 lynches are worse than random, so we're best off lynching someone that, if it turns out that they're town, we're still better off without them. I have yet to see a solid argument against this instead of "I don't like it".

In re: why I was voting Albert over the others, it's because I felt that he could be extremely useful to the town and we could be quite productive, but only so long as he explains what he's doing. If he doesn't and he's mafia, he's just going to keep doing this for the whole game and nobody will really stop him. If he keeps doing it and is town...well, I don't think anybody would argue that he's infalliable. However, his problems are the easiest to correct: Just post some bloody cases. DLA, Shotty and Saber have much more difficult to correct issues, but ones which will not hurt the game nearly as much. Due to Albert's reuptation, he has an enormous amount of power in these games, and that makes me extremely uneasy.

[Ellibereth]

Neto, do you still think that Albert is the best lynch of the day?

[Netopalis]

Probably not, but I'm keeping my vote on until he answers my questions or until I feel convinced enough of somebody else's scumminess.

[hewitt]

Ok...I read through all of Neto's posts:

#8: He agrees that meta is overrated, but still uses DLA's meta as an excuse for DLA's play.
#15: Says he will vote for DLA only if he doesn't put him in the danger zone. Later says it is to encourage DLA to post better. I don't see how that works.
#21: Says that Hewitt is the "easy target" scum found. I dunno, I think it would have been me, saber or DLA...
#27: Why are day 1 lynches worse than random? Why did you choose DLA and hewitt as the least useful people that you can get a read on others from? And did you ever do the hewitt reread?
#28: Hasn't voted for either CSL and DLA yet, after suggesting policy lynch.
#35: He sounds like voting Albert was some sort of inevitable result. Why so sure DLA is the best play of the day? You haven't even voted for him.
#36: Ooh! Ooh! Isn't the last sentence lining up lynches?
#38: Why doesn't what the original player did pass over? I disagree.
#41: It's what Saber's been doing the whole game, why only mention it now?
#46: Wants a polivy lynch here again.
#55: Continues to vote for people because they'll be dangerous or playing bad. Not because he thinks they are scum.

Unvote, Vote Neto

This Ellibereth? This does not once say I think Netopalis is scum because of X reason. This is all just a summary of what he's done. That's bullcrap.

[Albert B. Rampage]

hewitt, why don't you just sit tight in the corner and let the scumhunters do their job.

[Netopalis]

*sigh* And now he's trying to keep other players from voicing their opinions. More anti-town actions....

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm the most anti-town player you will ever know. I am pro-Albert. And what team is Albert on now? I'll let you decide.

[Netopalis]

How useful.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Maybe if you watch enough House episodes, you can be witty like Hugh Laurie. Sky's the limit, Netopalis. Do you want to quote some of the specific questions you had for me?

[hewitt]

hewitt, why don't you just sit tight in the corner and let the scumhunters do their job.

No because you all effing suck at it.

[saberwolf]

I'm the most anti-town player you will ever know. I am pro-Albert. And what team is Albert on now? I'll let you decide.

nuh uh, that's my title, bitch.

[Albert B. Rampage]

hewitt, why don't you just sit tight in the corner and let the scumhunters do their job.

No because you all effing suck at it.

hewitt, why do you speak to me like you have a clue? Maybe it's time you get yourself a manual hobby, like knitting. Craft yourself some nice mittens for chi-town winter. All dick measuring contests aside, please let me do what I do best so we can win this game. Okay? Please? Hand the reins over to me.

nuh uh, that's my title, bitch.

Now

there's

a dependable fellow! I'm currently voting Neto because I think along the same lines of Ojanen. Saber, I know you don't like to read, so if you trust either me or Ojanen (how can you not trust Ojanen?), vote for the Nets. He's the scums, mate.

[Netopalis]

In definite terms, what was your case against Hewitt?

In definite terms, what is your case against me?

Given CSL's record (In 84% of his games, he's been either lynched D1 or has replaced out), is it really appropriate to transfer his acts over to SC as you automatically did?

Please elaborate on your earlier desire to lynch one of the strongest players on D1.

What value do you get from asking other players to explain your acts before you explain them?

Why did you decide to align yourself with Hewitt all of a sudden?

[hewitt]

hewitt, why do you speak to me like you have a clue? Maybe it's time you get yourself a manual hobby, like knitting. Craft yourself some nice mittens for chi-town winter. All dick measuring contests aside, please let me do what I do best so we can win this game. Okay? Please? Hand the reins over to me.

You can do whatever the hell you want to do in this game. I don't give a shit, and I don't think you're going to be successful. So I'm going to do whatever the hell I want because I know I'm a lot more level-headed and analytical than you are. I do think you're town but we're definitely going to be running parallel, non-intersecting paths in this game. So go back and return to whatever you were doing, "scumhunting".

[Albert B. Rampage]

hewitt, do you think I'm a mason?

[Netopalis]

Specific post where you advocate lynching top players, incidentally...

Quit saying "the following" when it's "the above". Are you still suspicious of DLA?

It's clear to me that there are two types of players in this game:

-Players who generate new content:

Myself
Hewitt
Shotty
Netopalis
Farside22
Kikuchiyo

-Players who feed on existing content or don't post at all:

CSL
saberwolf
DLA
Ellibereth
Konowa (non-poster)
Yarmond (non-poster)

Now I don't know about you, but I sure as hell ain't going to start mislynching the second group while the scum NKs the first group every night. It's obvious that later in the game, scum will want to lynch the easy targets. I'm not looking for an easy target. We have to decide, right now, who among the key players are we going to trust or suspect.

Hewitt, despite the fact that I want you dead, I am willing to investigate the other players before the day ends. Analyze everyone in the first group and I will do the same.

Farside and Kikuchiyo also, I want to see some very detailed posts from you guys about the aforementioned key players in the game. Who is the most likely town? Who is the least likely town?