888: X-COM TFTD Mafia: Over!

[Claude Lefevre]

yes, there is a chance that she had a guilty (although she didn't look SO sure about anyone), and if not at least she had a clear... I will also re-read her last activity, but I am afraid that any discovery will be valid for the discoverer only, since it will be subject to all the possible wifom of this world when we start discussing it.

hell I asked Igor to post in correct English, but tonite I am too tired to do it myself LoL

[Emile Buchard]

Sorry I haven't been able to respond to much, I've just been really busy with real-life. With debate going on, and a slew of other things, finding time for this game is hard.

Anyways, on to the game, what

are

were your reasons for voting for me? State them and I'll respond. It's also annoying how all of our power roles are dead, but I guess we'll have to press on regardless.

[Andrew Lemarchand]

Basically, I suspected you for your defense of Gerhard's metafishing and when you said that you had no reason to believe that he was anything but town". I also didn't like Gerhard's insistence on voting Stuart even when he acknowledged that Tracey's case against you had decent reasons. You also never responded to my earlier vote or Spencer's vote, perhaps not wanting to draw attention to yourself.

As for Spencer's reason for voting you, I don't know I've been confused by it since the beginning.

[Igor Schultz]

Shit! Fuck! ahhh my leg! We lost a cop! my major read right now is on emile. One for not posting much and not defending himself. As well as defending gearard... I happen to be in debate too so could you give me a reason why I should not vote for you. You defended a mate fisher who fliped scum and you have yet to post content in over 5-6 pages.

fos: emmy

[Jaime Marcelle]

Ok, first of all I have found nothing about Tracey possibly getting a guilty. She seemed mostly to want to lynch Otto yesterday and obviouly she didn't get a guilty on him. Other then that Tracey didn't seem to be hitting anyone TOO hard.

Also, I like how everyone FoSes Emile for not posting content when Leon posted even less content...

FoS: Emile and Leon

[Igor Schultz]

I wouldn't mind a leon lynch but emmy has not only not posted content but defended scum.

[Jaime Marcelle]

I wouldn't mind a leon lynch but emmy has not only not posted content but defended scum.

True... I'll think about this. Right now I'm not sure which one I would choose to vote.

[Claude Lefevre]

may I ask one - prolly stupid - question?

I do not understand how meta-fishing helps scum more than town. It's against the rules, but how is it a scumtell?

Note that my case on Jamie was based on possible role-fishing, not meta-fishing.

[Andrew Lemarchand]

I do not understand how meta-fishing helps scum more than town. It's against the rules, but how is it a scumtell?

As far as my puny brain can figure out, I don't see how it helps one side more than the other. I think the main point with Emile is that he was defending the only known scum in the game.

[Claude Lefevre]

I do not understand how meta-fishing helps scum more than town. It's against the rules, but how is it a scumtell?

As far as my puny brain can figure out, I don't see how it helps one side more than the other. I think the main point with Emile is that he was defending the only known scum in the game.

yes, this is definitely a more interesting approach. Now two considerations.

1) If Gerhard was a scum-member, and he was killed by a vig or stuff like that, why was there no second victim (scum victim) on twilight 1? And what was this vig doing on twilight 2? This are the reasons why I think it is unlikely that Gerhard was a member of the regular scum-party, and I prefer to hypothesize that he was a third party (or at least that his scummy identity was unknown to scum: why defend him and kill him?).
(note that this does not clear Emile, but if Emile is scum he prolly didn't know who Gerhard was and he killed him at twilight).

2) If meta-fishing is not a scum-tell, I have to re-read and see who are the players who tried to use it really bad. Igor is one.

[Igor Schultz]

when did I ever fish? no really I just told old gerhard that he was. You are mixing him with me. How many times do I have to say this. In x-com all aliens work together if this was a real x-com game then I would mostlikly send Claude out with my worst weapons and no armour. Every-one works together to kill the human race. Now I wouldn't mind a claude lynch ether.

[Andrew Lemarchand]

Igor, I think he is saying that you tried to paint Gerhard's metafishing as scummy when, in reality, it's probably just against the rules. Looking back at the post in question, you did vote Gerhard for the metafishing but you dropped that very quickly and never returned to it. What does concern me is your immediate OMGUS on Claude after he merely mentioned the possibility of you doing something scummy.

[Claude Lefevre]

yes, it was a quick episode and it didn't last long (obviously I meant using the meta-fishing as argument for scumminess, sorry for being not clear). It was just the only one I could remember without re-reading. Interesting reaction, tho.

Parents visiting me for the w/e: I will not be technically V/LA, but I will not post as much as usual.

[Andrew Lemarchand]

We might have considerably low activity levels as I will be V/LA the entire weekend. Should be able to check in late Sunday.

[Jaime Marcelle]

I do not understand how meta-fishing helps scum more than town. It's against the rules, but how is it a scumtell?

It's not. It probably helps town out more then scum. Don't ask me why everyone thought Gerhard was scummy for it.

Anyway, I think the main case on Emile is that he doesn't post much content and that he was defending Gerhard. I don't see however how the defending part was really that bad because really, is everyone right 100% of the time?

[Leon Dreyfus]

Emile can die today, the iso look isn't pretty.

Life is hectic right now ith finals and a death in the family. So, it's not an excuse to not post buttt yeah.

[Jaime Marcelle]

Emile can die today, the iso look isn't pretty.

I know that you're probably having problems in real life could you get around to posting a better thing about why you think he should die because your iso look isn't much prettier and this only makes it worse.

[Igor Schultz]

I might try to do an iso today starting in about 10-30 mins if I can do it.

[Claude Lefevre]

I gotta be telegraphic:

post 414: Jamie explain his point of view on the Emile's case. Nothing new. Jamie's alingment will depend on what his FoS will turn out to be. Or perhaps not: he never really instsisted to have someone lynched. I have difficulties reading him.

post 415: Leon, second FoS mentioned in teh last posts, approves lynching Emile, teh first FoS. Original, indeed. LoL.

post 416: Jamie comments on Leon. I agree 100% so I have nothing to add.

post 417: ok, we wait then. But there was that reaction of yours you are still refusing to explain, huh?

@Emile: you better post some content. For instance answer this: since Leon wants you to die, would you agree on lynching him instead? Besides, who are your FoS's? What is starting to bother me is that you are not taking any positive position.

@everyone: I would like to collect your thoughts about Igor.

[Jaime Marcelle]

post 414: Jamie explain his point of view on the Emile's case. Nothing new. Jamie's alingment will depend on what his FoS will turn out to be. Or perhaps not: he never really instsisted to have someone lynched. I have difficulties reading him.

I haven't decided who I want to lynch yet. I am torn between Leon and Emile. Once I hear more from them I can probably decide who to vote.

@everyone: I would like to collect your thoughts about Igor.

Igor gives me mainly town reads. He's been helping town out in my eyes and his posts usually help out the town. the only thing that I don't like about him is his bad typing skills (no offence) but that's just annoying, not scummy.

[Leon Dreyfus]

Claude, you seem pretty off to me. Off enough to me that i'm strongly considering you scum after your last post. What kills me is that others are saying what scumslips Emile has done and yet you ask him if he would like to lynch me? You seem okay for either, which is what really disturbs me. Most of the time you are going to want to go with the scummier player. Which isn't the case here, you're a-okay to lynch whoever it seems. Try to argue it, but that's definitely the way your posts look.

Now to Emile, I've been okay with an Emile lynch since Day 1, but after Gerhard meta fished I switched over to him. I'm still fine with the Emile lynch. Stuart just came across and grabbed everyone's attention, so the Emile wagon came to a screeching halt.

[Edward Smilie]

To all: the following are my thoughts on d1. I will post a summary at the bottom to alleviate the Tl/dr ness.

The first Jaime wagon I approve. Dicevoting = antitown.

By having someone pick something that's not there and start an argument about it, like in every game.

How is anyone going to pick something that's 'not there' if it's

verifiably

not there?

. It's just another random vote thats in reality not any more random then any other. In fact, how do

you know no one else voted on random.com or something but just wouldn't tell any of us? So no, I do not feel it is anti-town

or policy lynch worthy.

Also, how is this question helpful to the town?

You don't know people didn't dicerandom vote secretly. In fact, as scum i usually do. But to make it clear your vote is

100% random means there can't be anything else behind it. For example, masons will not vote for their partners, even

'randomly.' So when you roll a die in thread, it indicates that there is no-one in the game for whom you have reason to

avoid voting. If a random vote is truly random, and demonstrably so, it can have no effect on the game. Well, apart from

the fact that people jump on you for it, which ironically moves the game on a ton.

Well I doubt there would be no discussion... Scummy people get voted. Simple as that. ?

How can anyone who votes truly randomly be scummy or not, if the very act isn't scummy?

Andrew's post 32 contains a contradiction. Namely, he feels it 'isn't scummy' but does allow people to 'hide behind the

dice.' In other words, that dice voting allows the player to avoid making decisions, which is what the town needs to move

forward. Preventing the town doing what it needs to do = scummy.

/comfirm in.

LEON. Are you saying that people think they know who is scummy before they first post? and that every vote has good logical

reasons this early in the game? Thus you are impling that we are all supper cops have esp, and never vote in RV. RVS is to

start an early band wagon not to toss real votes on scummers around. However the scum will most likly not vote for one of

their buddys, but other then that rvs votes are as good as that.

Bleeping hell, this post is the strawman to end all strawmen.

You guys are going in circles. Leon is saying that there is some sort of reason for any vote someone

places, even if that reason is subconscious, and

maybe

you can draw something from that.

Jaime's point is equally valid, that the vast majority of the time judging a player based on an RV is stupid.

This post makes me think it's somewhat more likely that one or other is his scumbuddy.

Claude's 56 is filler.

Emile's 57 is an old favorite- a vote that calls for

other

people to 'start scumhunting' but doesn't say who emile

thinks is scum. (At least he says who he thinks is town, which is a start). Also- Leon, at least, appeared to be

scumhunting already.

Igor's post afterward is even worse.

start a wagon like in most games... That most of the time gets the game ball rolling.

Seriously, what did you think the votes on Jaime were? A bicycle?

Okay, it's later. Here's some more:

It was close between two people....while I hate twilight and new moon references, and wish to vote for the

one who made them, someone else deserves my vote more:

vote:Jaime Marcelle

For using a dice to determine your RVS vote to avoid responsibility for your actions.

Dice = anti-town

Otto was the one who started the whole dice deal. While you could make the argument that it was just as random as the other

votes, he still gains some scum points.

WTF? That was the most protown vote made to date! How in God's name can you say it causes someone to GAIN scum points?

Further in the same post, how is trying to spark discussion on an in-game issue scummy?

Stuart is awesome.

In 76, Emile then hedges like a mofo.

Sry I wasn't on much yesterday but I'm really busy so i have to make this post short.

vote Emile Buchard

Sigh... Please explain your votes before you put them on please. Why are you voting stuart? Smells like scum is not a good excuse. I have no idea what the heck you are doing.
.

There's nothing wrong with not explaining your vote straightaway.

I would think that the time for unexplained and baseless voting has passed.

Vote: Stuart Whyte

*SIGH*

Why the hell are people assuming that because a poster doesn't give a reason, he doesn't HAVE one?

I comepletely agree with Tracy. I will probably be voting for Stuart pretty soon because of his random vote out of the RVS and his horrible horrible reasoning. Stuart- How does he "Smell like scum"? However, before I put a (serious) vote on anyone I want to hear more about Edwards plan.

IDIOT. (Or scum, I'm not sure yet- but you've been wrong on every issue). Why would you assume it's random? It clearly
isn't.

Top suspects so far- Spencer, Jaime and Emile, easily. Stuart is totally town.

Okay, I've re-read, and the people who seemed to try and further the discussion without furthering the game are, in no particular order:

Stuart Whyte

So, so wrong.

And, oh look, the dead scum decides to jump this wagon. How utterly unsurprising.

Yeah, all the reasons Igor cites in 104 are crap.

LOl, I just went back to the first post and noticed Stuart ends up getting lynched off this. I mean, WTF? He was the most protown player.

Also, people are deliberatelt misreprensenting the earlier version of me.

He asked '

If I did this, how would you react?

' To which the possible answers would be, a) I'd go along with the plan b) I'd think you an idiot or c) I'd think you're scum. Which of these positions someone took would be interesting. He didn't actually SAY 'vote me please.' A lot of people said 'this is akin to selfvoting' without thinking why selfvoting can be scummy in the first place.

That post was just to show him how rediculous it was to not explain his vote. I wasn't trying to rolefish. in fact, I think the only way that could truely be considered rolefishing is if he actually is a secret daycop.

How the fuck does that work? Fishing to find out if someone has a role is scummy if he does have it, but not if he doesn't?

Also, I will put this in caps for the hard of thinking:

NOT EXPLAINING YOUR VOTE DOES NOT MEAN YOU DON'T HAVE A REASON. THERE ARE PLENTIFUL PROTOWN REASONS FOR NOT EXPLAINING THINGS, FOR INSTANCE, YOU WANT TO SEE WHO SEES WHAT YOU SEE. YOU WANT TO SEE IF PEOPLE WILL BLINDLY FOLLOW YOU. PERHAPS YOU WANT TO SEE IF THE VOTEE GIVES THEMSELVES AWAY BY SAYING 'WHY ARE YOU VOTING ME? IS IT ZOR, YOU WANT TO SEE WHO WILL SCUMMILY CLAIM THAT NOT GIVING REASONS IS SCUMMY.

Stuart posted his vote in response to a particular post from Emile, that I also thought was very scummy. However, no one actually bothered to look at that, and think about why someone might find it scummy. They just stupidly assumed he had no reason just because he didn't give one.

Sorry for not posting guys. Nasty weekend. Anyway, right now, I think we could do a lot worse for a Stuart lynch. His play his flat out anti-town, whether he's scum or not. Even if he does filp town, having him dead will certainly help us down the road.

vote: Stuart

This was simply untrue. Whyte was not antitown in any way. He was clearly a better player than all of Schulz, Marcelle, Buchard, and Remmington. Unfortunately, this game seems to have a critical mass of stupidity to ally with the scum.

162 would be rolefishing, if not made by a dead cop.

Bullet proof? Ok, 1) I don't buy that at all.

@Those who have played X-Com is there some invincible hero? I doubt it.

Nope, but the amount of armor characters have varies enormously. Some have none, some have massive power suits that let them take multiple shots and survive.

Spencer is coming across as more of a sincere but wrong type than Emile is.

. In this case, why on earth didn't you just invent a reason for calling Emile scum? A vote with hidden reasons and the refusal to explain is always dangerous to the voter and to his team.

This makes me feel actually ill.




____________________________________________________

To end of day one summmary:

Whyte was in the right on virtually everything. Those opposing him were a mix of idiot and scum. Leon is my best town read, Emile probs top for scum.

___________________________________________________

[malthusis]

Got a replacement for Orski (finally....)

[Claude Lefevre]

@Leon: man, my post what not so drastic, nor it was against you. Asking player #2 if he would lynch player #1 doesn't mean that I want to lynch player #1. I have never had a case on you, and the first thing about you that bothered me was your declaration that you would support his lynch, which is quite natural, since someone is FoSing you as well. You say that you agreed on lynching him since day 1, and this is good enough an answer (even better since Emile is still lurking, which is not good).

As for me, I have kept my eye on Jamie since day 1 (always tried to explain why), and I switched on Stuart for the reasons I had explained little before Otto's crazy hammer. I am now trying to conclude something about Jamie, but I am unable to do it, cuz I cannot read him (see my previous post). Also, about Leon and Emile, I am not "ok for either": I have never said that I would vote Leon, and honestly I find the case against him extremely thin (if there actually is a case).

@Jamie: yes, Igor apparently helped scum-hunting, but scum-hunting never hit a scum, so far... I would be more comfortable about him being town if he was ready to take a position and vote for someone.

[Igor Schultz]

keep in mind that not one vote has been cast today. I intend to change that. I think it is time for us to start talking about voting and as claude has put take a stand and vote for who we think is scum. Right now I think that we need to get one of the more scummy players back in the game.

vote emmy

. I voted her before and I think we might be able to get some more helpful info out of her today.
@jaime, none taken I have found that the weekest man is the one that is offended by a game.