California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over)

[zu_Faul]

New AP would no be confirmed I think it said this somewhere in the rules. One could go and make a case out of this, but almost everyone has a bad grasp of the rules here, so no meta-argument.

Happy Birthday Thesp.

The problem about voting analysis in this game is that there so many scum that they could easily accuse each other to make themselves look more townish.

I somehow want to move Talilan in my scum list a bit forward. I'd say lynch StarKiss first, then Talilan. If the game still continues afterwards we have enough information that the remaining survivors can make a good decision.

[zu_Faul]

If I was leaving people off stage in that scene it might have been DGB, Starkiss, hewitt or some mix like that. Not saying it would have been correct and it could have ended the same way, but SL was obv town and a bad choice.

Your 3 picks would have left offstage with no method of communication. Something CKD got villified for. And unless all 3 are scum (possible but by no means certain), would have put us automatically into worst possible endgame. We also would not have got the benefit of seeing two scum flip, because the scum would have had all the time in the world to make their lynch look like a well-meaning one. My picks were better.

~Tal

We'd still have two scum flips. I fail to see how you still don't understand this.

[Talilan]

Oh we would... the number things. My bad. ~sigh~

I am going out for the day. Don't know if I'll be back for deadline.

~T

[Talilan]

StarKiss is a very good first lynch. He has the best chance of being scum, IMO. We don't want to be in lynch-wrong-lose tomorrow... SPECIALLY if you are serious about lynching us.

~T

[Talilan]

Also

The more I ponder why hewitt might have been picked as the Advocate for the last scene, the more I'm happy with lynching him. <snip>

Can we please have this reasoning fleshed out?

~T

[VP Baltar]

@MO-trust me, I don't even understand what is going through my own head right now in relation to my list. This lynch is clutch for us and I really want to get it right.

Help me fill in the blanks.

Townilan: Starkiss = scum; hewitt = maybe scum
Scumilan: Starkiss = prob town; hewitt = unsure

Lynching us based on the actions of a known scum would be bad play.

What? How so? Isn't finding connections between dead scum a good thing?

Give me your thoughts on a why a scum DGB would not fire you and take the power seat. I mean, given your repeatedly bad choices, she certainly had more than one opening.

Your 3 picks would have left offstage with no method of communication. Something CKD got villified for.

So? It was the last scene, being vilified would have been the very last thing on my mine. Nor would communication really have been that important since the onstage folks could just do condorcets and go to deadline.

And unless all 3 are scum (possible but by no means certain), would have put us automatically into worst possible endgame. We also would not have got the benefit of seeing two scum flip, because the scum would have had all the time in the world to make their lynch look like a well-meaning one. My picks were better.

lol, Hope everyone realizes the implication of what you're saying here. You're saying you KNEW you put two scum and a town off stage so the scum would quick lynch the town and thus out themselves. Are you seriously saying that was a consideration of yours for putting them off stage?

I'm liking a Talilan lynch more and more.

I also don't have a problem with Talilan's picks for the last scene.

Really? Why?

I somehow want to move Talilan in my scum list a bit forward. I'd say lynch StarKiss first, then Talilan.

You are the confirmed town here and I don't have a problem with your suspects for the most part, so I'm inclined to follow your preferences, but can you explain why on this specific order for me?

Tags removed. Use bold only for voting. - Mod

[VP Baltar]

Vote: Talilan, Starkiss, hewitt, Thesp, Mighty Orbots, No Lynch [VP Baltar, zu faul]

[Talilan]

lynching us is retarded, start getting better reads pl0x zu and VP. It's Thesp and StarKiss, not us and StarKiss. I suppose you reckon we've been busing StarKiss since god knows when as well?

Read the damn thread.

- ortolan

[VP Baltar]

who says it has to be starkiss? Also, answer my questions.

[VP Baltar]

<---Waits for Ortolan to post despite his posting elsewhere.

[VP Baltar]

Vote: Talilan

, Thesp, hewitt, Starkiss, Mighty Orbots, No Lynch [VP Baltar, zu faul]

[Mighty Orbots]

Dude. VP.

Vote: Starkiss, hewitt, Thesp, Talilan, Mighty Orbots, No Lynch, [VP Baltar, zu faul]
Vote: Talilan, Starkiss, hewitt, Thesp, Mighty Orbots, No Lynch [VP Baltar, zu faul]
Vote: Talilan, Thesp, hewitt, Starkiss, Mighty Orbots, No Lynch [VP Baltar, zu faul]

These are your last three. I'm really confused. Why did Thesp go from 4 to 2? And Starkiss go from 1 to 4?

You're making me really nervous with all this.

[VP Baltar]

Because Starkiss and Talilan are not partners as far as I can tell. Right now, I want Talilan lynched today and putting Starkiss much lower on my list is going to enable that since he is the current condorcet leader.

[Mr. Grey]

Deadline:

Approximately 16 hours from this post.

Vote Count:

4 to lynch.

StarKiss: 2 (Talilan, Thesp)
Talilan: 2 (hewitt, VP Baltar)
hewitt: 1 (Mighty Orbots)

Not Voting: 2 (StarKiss, zu_Faul)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: hewitt, Mighty Orbots, StarKiss, Talilan, Thesp

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put the following information into this form.

1,hewitt
2,Mighty Orbots
3,StarKiss
4,Talilan
5,Thesp
6,VP Baltar
7,zu_Faul
8,No Lynch
9,Mr. Grey

1:4>3>2>5>6>7>8>1
1:1>4>3=5>6>9>2>8>7
1:1=2=4=5=6=7=8>3
1:3>5>1=2>6>7>4>8
1:3>1=2>4=6>8>5=7
1:4>5>1>3>2>8>6=7
1:3>1>4=6>2>5>8>7

[Talilan]

why would you expect me to post, I'm not even up to date with this game. I was just suggesting you may not want to vote us if you desire for town to win. If VP Baltar thinks we're def not scum with StarKiss then it's vitally important that StarKiss gets lynched immediately so that we may not be mislynched. Then we can lynch Thesp. gogo.

fyi that argument about us being more trusted than DGB still doesn't hold water, it's not the difference of us being trusted more it's the difference of scum sacrificing 3 of their number compared to 2. Anyway let's not lynch us kthx.

- ortolan

[Thesp]

Also

The more I ponder why hewitt might have been picked as the Advocate for the last scene, the more I'm happy with lynching him. <snip>

Can we please have this reasoning fleshed out?

~T

Sure. I've been thinking on this back and forth and I'm still torn, but I've been pondering why the last scene went down as it did. I feel like GaB didn't fire Talilan because they thought they might still try to go undetected, and possibly shoot for a bad result in the last scene. (Or heck, if they got a 2 townies : 1 scum in the last scene, if they could talk the townie into lynching the other townie, they'd be set.) I've been pondering, why hewitt as the advocate? He was quite high on the chopping block, so perhaps they were putting him on stage to avoid him being able to be lynched? Then when 2 scum got put offstage, they said, "what the heck, let's do this". I'm thinking the scum outside of hewitt were less likely to be lynched, so putting hewitt onstage there kept him safe.

At first I thought him being onstage means he was more likely to be town (so they'd have a stronger likelihood of having two scum offstage), but if they were really going for the offstage lynch no matter what, then GaB might have fired Talilan earlier. Of course, to choose for S7, GaB would have had to fire Talilan during S6, which would have called her question into question, and they had S6 in the bag. That makes me think they were going for the worst number initially, and simply seized opportunity when given the 2 scum : 1 town scenario offstage.

I feel like I'm rambling, but what it comes down to for hewitt is that I think Talilan was town, GaB and scum didn't want to be blatant about a push for the townlynch until it could happen (in fact, I think if scum chose, then at least one of Thok/GaB would likely be in the endgame), and given this, scum didn't want the town having good information (and hewitt was likely to be lynched given most potential three person groupings, so keeping him onstage kept him from being lynched).

hewitt's also gone dark again.

I also don't have a problem with Talilan's picks for the last scene.

Really? Why?

I think Talitha's agony over who to keep offstage feels very genuine, and I disagree with your assessment that ShadowLurker was obvtown (I certainly wasn't persuaded). And honestly, I'm glad Thok is confirmed scum, because I was completely snowed by him.

lynching us is retarded, start getting better reads pl0x zu and VP. It's Thesp and StarKiss, not us and StarKiss. I suppose you reckon we've been busing StarKiss since god knows when as well?

Read the damn thread.

- ortolan

Please start taking this game and the players in it seriously. Lynching you isn't "retarded", it's a legitimate and understandable approach that some people are taking based on some actions you've taken in the game. (I disagree with them, but they are by no means retarded.) As long as you continue to consider yourself "not even up to date with this game", I'm not going to listen to

crap

from you about who to lynch, and especially not about your pleas not to lynch you. Catch up with the game, treat the people who are playing this game with you with respect (perhaps you can take a clue from your other hydra head?), and start

thinking

about this game. A lot of us have gone to great lengths to explain where their stances have come from, and have asked questions of others to discern where they stand and where others might stand. Please pardon us if we don't give your seemingly unsupported assertions and vitrol any weight when others seem to be trying.

That said, I still don't want a Talilan lynch today. I might have the opportunity to post tomorrow morning, but I'm not counting on it. I'm happy moving to a hewitt lynch, since it doesn't look like StarKiss is happening.

And thanks for the birthday wishes, everyone. It's been an awesome birthday!

Vote: hewitt

, StarKiss, Mighty Orbots, [Talilan, VP Baltar], No Lynch, [Thesp, zu_Faul]

[Talilan]

whatever. I'd outline why the above post makes it even more obvious that Thesp and StarKiss are scum but I'm not going to waste my time arguing against brick walls when I have far more important things to be doing right now.

Let's just lynch hewitt and ourselves, then we can pat KY Crew, Pooky, DGB, Thok, Thesp and StarKiss on the back for a hard-earned win.

- ortolan

[StarKiss]

{Kise}

lol, we really should just lynch Mr. Grey and get it over with MO!

I have seen the last two Cali games employ a unique twist. This game is creative, but I'm still waiting for the big twist. Is Grey at all a legal entity (for voting or any other reference)?

Deadline lynches are pansy lynches. People should man/woman-up and lynch someone.

So people shouldn't take their time deciding who to lynch at a crucial time like this, merely so they can avoid being labeled a pansy? There should be as many posts, questions, answers, opinions and information for us to use because 2 wrong moves can hand this game to scum. With my poor availability especially, I could use time on my side. This reminds me though that I voted improperly this morning.

I believe I was pretty well caught up

Alright. I ask because of how anxious you seem to have lynches occur, so I wanted to make sure you knew all of what's happening before rushing lynches. It hasn't gone unnoticed that you've missed out on voting in a lot of scenes, so another reason why I asked how caught up you were. I figure that if you had a full understanding of things, you should have been voting more often.

Anything in particular you're looking for? I thought about it from time to time, but no, I did not put much effort into puzzle solving, and I adamantly did not want to send a signal onstage. Talilan is correct in her observations here.

Was this at a time when we definitely knew the outcome of maiden(?), and you didn't help out those on camera ?

(Something tells me I'm misinterpreting the scene)

When was this time that the scum could kill that you speak of?

Probably after we lynched CKD, before SL got lynched (same time 41 was picked on camera). At one time, there were two kills done, then later only single kills. I'm thinking scum were alloted kills based on how many scenes had finished. The on camera choices don't seem to indicate their ability to kill since Bagel and MJL were killed after non-bad choices were made.

I don't recall, what was your stance on curiouskarmadog's refusal to give details on who would be onstage?

I dont think we should have ANY conversation about who to hang tomorrow, until the scene starts, why give scum so much information? if you have thoughts about who should go or not, go ahead and state your case....I will listen, but no longer going to even fucking hint at who is going...if you have a problem with that that, fire me.

in that case (no advocates) chat away....that being said, I am not indicating anything though.

gaspar, you would love it if you could tell me who to send wouldnt you?

Of course I would. I am a power hungry lunatic. I wouldn't be Glork if not.

But seriously, I was suggesting that the collective tell you who to send, not me personally.

no, you have a problem with that..lynch me.

I dont want scum to know who I am sending before the scene...if you have a suggestion I will listen, but you are running out of time.

putting together a list now...

and no, not going to tell you who i am picking....but would love to hear suggestions and why...

Heads up, I never posted/documented my stance on this, so don't bother iso'ing me. Before anyone ask, the reason I didn't post was because I was attempting to get a gist of everything I missed off camera before looking at current commentary, which was a rare effort from me. If I'm not mistaken, Gaspar's lynch was nearing so that then became the focus of attention. Now, as far as how I felt about CKD's behavior there, it's not the first rash thing he's done. It was clear to see he wanted to leave a few of his personal lynch choices off camera. He was only digging a hole deeper for himself if, by the time the scene arrived, we found out he made some dumb selections, so I wasn't going to give him a hand in looking better if he was scum. There were a high number of [innocent] players living so if I had been more active, I would have thrown my hands up and accept that it should be expected from him, instead of argue like the others and try to convince him to give a list of who he was sending. To boot, if he wasn't scum with the assistant director, I would expect him to get warned/fired or else suspicion is heavily cast on them both. However, had the situation been where only 3 players could be left off-camera, I would most definitely not just let him get off the hook with being tight lipped. Those 3 players need to be chosen carefully, and logically.

This is coming from the self-proclaimed Jesus Kise?

School, man.. My brain is geared toward research papers more than it is scumhunting.

Thoughts, Thesp? -- You as well, MO?

I don't see the significance of this.

My mistake. I could have sworn Talilan mentioned your name in that quote as well, but anyway, disregard it.

@Talilan - Thesp has you low on his lynch priority. You claim I am scum with him. Flipping town would obviously mean I am not scum with anyone, but would your opinion of Thesp change to trusting him more?

@VP - About KY's lynching, I was busy, as usual. At that point, I don't think dram joined the hydra so I was only posting to avoid prods (48 hour rule). KY was stunted off camera and by the time I logged on, he was L-1. I saw his cop claim (it stuck out because I focused on him only) and asked everyone whether I should hammer anyway or whether they wanted to talk about it. I have only heard that he did some scummy things during the first scene off camera before he stunted onto camera, but never had time to look into it. When scene 2 rolled around, I wasn't hip to how he was obv-lying scum. Mechanics were still new and uncertain for me, so I didn't know at the time that everyone had regular non-active roles. If I knew as much about this game's mechanics then as I know now, I would not have doubted CKD and Panzer's integrity during the 1st scene. Hopefully the answer to your question is in there somewhere.

[Talilan]

VP, I'm pretty much done with you, and am starting to feel like Hewitt. I've answered the DGB thing. I've answered the choices thing. There's no point repeating anything because you don't recognise honesty when you see it. I have explained myself to death, as you well know. What's with the lol? I didn't say anything like what you twisted my words into. I am not saying I intentionally tried to get us into worst possible endgame and you are absurd to read that into it. I am saying that I THINK MY PICKS WORKED OUT BETTER THAN YOURS WOULD HAVE.

Thesp, you are the only one sticking up for us. It's such a pity you're scum

I do not want argue anymore. I'm with ortolan and refuse to argue at brick walls. Lynch us if you want. When flip town lynch StarKiss, lynch Thesp.

Love you all... peace.

~Tal

[Talilan]

StarKiss - Firstly, no we did not know the outcome of the maiden at that time. I thought maiden was indicated as 'not the bad choice' from the information given, but others either did not agree or did not try to work it out themselves.

Also @ StarKiss - if you flipped town I'd obviously reassess Thesp but I would most likely still think he's scum because I think zu_Faul, VP, and MO are town. With you out of the picture and town, there'd only be Hewitt & Thesp. It's a pair I've considered, but as I find you the most likely scum here I don't think it is the case.

~Tal

[Talilan]

I just want to link this post of DGB's that I refered to earlier:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 93#1932593

The context is DGB suggesting we lynch Hewitt. And she's saying that if he's scum, then Gaspar looks very townie and Pooky looks like a Hewitt buddy. Now I don't pretend to know what goes on inside the mind of DGB, but I think it's much more likely she knew Hewitt would flip town, than she was actively trying to incriminate Pooky and clear Gaspar.

Just my 0.02c on Hewitt.

~Tal

[StarKiss]

{Kise}

I was right, MO:

Re: Thesp not wanting to send a sign onstage... Yes I thought it was worth noting after I it was revealed that maiden wouldn't have been a bad pick. Thesp didn't appear to put any effort into figuring out the puzzle himself, just wanted onstage to play it out. (Now that I check back, MO also did not want to send a signal onstage.. I guess I found this less suspicious because one of MO was at least attempting to figure out the puzzle).

Hewitt has shirked culpability for his actions about 1000 times in this thread, repeatedly feigning frustration with the game. If he really hated this game so much, why didn't he replace about 5 scenes ago? Instead he just keeps going "I don't care, this is stupid. You guys do whatever you want and I'll vote with it". I mean, is there a position anyone could take that's more scummy?

I'm purposely overlooking his voting record due to circumstance. I would not believe he, as scum, would have been a better pick than Goofball, or Thok for that matter. Considering the other mislynches we've had, I take into account whether it looks like these lynches are heading down the same path. Subconsciously, his age also plays a part in how I view him this game. I overthink when it comes to adult players, and admit I can be wrong as town a lot of times in one game. But, for some reason, I find it easier to evaluate teenagers.

And who do you think wrote that PM?

PNIA or Grey. I first think of Grey because I'm not certain whether anti-town can customize advocate PMs.

You're not anti-town, you're scummy with a capital S. You have been working against the goals of the town the entire game, and it's a very big coincidence that you and hewitt are trying to push.

The word 'working' suggests that I made incorrect choices intently. All I can say is that this is not the case. I got drowned out of the game whenever I found out that there was so much stuff to read off camera from the first scene. When Starbuck dipped out, my descent from the ranks came suddenly. I just wanted to be a part of a mith game, but the rules were that you get prodded after 2 days, plus your posts need a minimum of 25 words, and lastly you only get one warning before you're considered for replacement/modkill. I did a LOT of fluffing just to get by and stay in the game. It was selfish, hurt the town, yadda yadda. I know.

Kise, I've played plenty of games with you to know that you're a competent player. dram is less proficient, but he's certainly not awful (I was recently scum with him and won), so how do you expect me to believe that you guys couldn't make a correct choice beyond the very first scene?

I could link/refer you to recent f*ck ups of mine, as town. I cost town the game by overthinking who I thought was scum in lylo. I was confirmed cop, so the fate of all town players rested in my hands, literally. In Percy's last theme game, I lurked hard and flipped town (via modkill). If you're willing to trust my word, then believe me when I say that I did not intentionally make choices with prior knowledge that my decisions would hurt the town. I did not know any of the outcomes in this game, and didn't pay much attention on camera because it involved too much problem solving/guessing. I preferred to remain off camera most of the time. As for dram... I think as soon as we were told there would be no more prodding, he felt he helped me long enough and dipped as well.

I mean, the KY Krew thing was a slam dunk and still nothing from you. The town-Kise I know would have been all over him like a cheap suit and laughed about it as he was strung up. I'm not seeing that zeal here at all.

Lol. Weren't you a main supporter of my mislynch in Open 150? I wouldn't say I have any sort of solid meta because my playstyle is only affected by role, not alignment.

What about scene 2?

I answered this earlier tonight, FYI.

This is laughably ridiculous. "I'm town, therefore I'm clueless."

Same old VP from Open 150, I see. One thing I have to note about our time in "Cuckoo's Nest" mafia is that you [scum] lashed out against me after I dug up some dirt on you. I was wrong about who I thought you were coaching, but I'm seeing similar retaliation here. Then again... same old VP. You need meta.

Why, oh why, would scum blatantly pick all the wrong choices? That question has a degree of WIFOM, but cut the crap. You would have to give him credit if he's anti-town not to be so foolish (sorry if that's an ad hom -- if you aren't innocent, hew). I would like to think his partners would have instructed him to have a better image if he is in the scum group.

Unless one or both of you was not meant to be in endgame. Scum didn't get a choice of who to send if Talilan is town.

Goes without saying that I think scum had a choice thanks to Tal.

Let's save our mislynch for tomorrow folks if we need it.

Eh? The context of this post suggest you know/expect a mislynch. Clarify or rephrase, please.

Which 3 players would you have left offstage VP. StarKiss: same question.

Didn't I just ask you a sh*tload of questions? Anyway, if I was selfish, I would have left you, myself and anyone I regarded as more trusting than the others (VP, MO). A second scenario is to choose only ONE of you, Thok and Goof to question about the screw up with Scene 6; and the other two players would have to be proven for being level-headed and good decision makers. SL was useful for stunting, but that ability would not have influenced whether SL was on or off camera. Now, if I'm not being selfish (I wouldn't have been), I would take everyone else's suggestions into consideration, and I do remember nearly everyone posted who they wanted off camera. The dice would have landed on you, Thok and Goof either way. Again, only one of you would have made it, and again, this would be discussed with everyone else whether they agreed with my list or not. I was too lazy to be the director though. (*_*) Also, if you picked all scum last scene and they had to bus their own, then they would not only get credit for 'staging' an anti-town's lynch, but they would still be able to select which 2 of the 3 remaining go to endgame.

I've been pondering, why hewitt as the advocate? He was quite high on the chopping block, so perhaps they were putting him on stage to avoid him being able to be lynched?

So in hewitt's case he's different from Elmo, who was also made advocate and later stunted off camera to be lynched?

hewitt was likely to be lynched given most potential three person groupings, so keeping him onstage kept him from being lynched

Interesting, and a fair point.

I think Talitha's agony over who to keep offstage feels very genuine, and I disagree with your assessment that ShadowLurker was obvtown

Alright, but how do you feel about Talilan not giving her final 3 or 4 picks to remain off camera with the rest of us during pre-scene?

if you flipped town I'd obviously reassess Thesp but I would most likely still think he's scum because I think zu_Faul, VP, and MO are town.

You'd reassess, eh..? See, this tells me that you believe there is some link between Thesp and I. I'd like to know what this link is. Point blank, I want to know why you find Thesp scummy besides what he had to say about you in his last post, and why he gets

reassessed

if I'm lynched first. To be more blunt, looks like you'd somewhat clear Thesp. You weren't sure about him earlier, but later on you say the way we gangbanged CKD makes us partners. So what I'm currently under the belief of is that you feel Thesp is scummy through me, since I was scummy to you before, and he can be relieved of scumminess if it's shown that you linked him to a townie.

Unvote
Vote: Talilan

, Thesp, [Mighty Orbots, VP Baltar], hewitt, No Lynch, StarKiss, zu_faul

Extraneous tag removed. - Mod

[Talilan]

Does that mean we will be lynched? That is good. A much better choice than hewitt. Please lynch StarKiss 'n' Thesp on the 'morn

[Thesp]

So in hewitt's case he's different from Elmo, who was also made advocate and later stunted off camera to be lynched?

At that point, yes.

Deadline lynches are pansy lynches. People should man/woman-up and lynch someone.

So people shouldn't take their time deciding who to lynch at a crucial time like this, merely so they can avoid being labeled a pansy? There should be as many posts, questions, answers, opinions and information for us to use because 2 wrong moves can hand this game to scum. With my poor availability especially, I could use time on my side. This reminds me though that I voted improperly this morning.

Oh, we should absolutely ask questions. And make a decision. There's a point of diminishing returns to all this. This quote makes me want to lynch you more.

Anything in particular you're looking for? I thought about it from time to time, but no, I did not put much effort into puzzle solving, and I adamantly did not want to send a signal onstage. Talilan is correct in her observations here.

Was this at a time when we definitely knew the outcome of maiden(?), and you didn't help out those on camera ?

(Something tells me I'm misinterpreting the scene)

I don't think we ever definitely knew the outcome of the scene. Perhaps you did.

When was this time that the scum could kill that you speak of?

Probably after we lynched CKD, before SL got lynched (same time 41 was picked on camera). At one time, there were two kills done, then later only single kills. I'm thinking scum were alloted kills based on how many scenes had finished. The on camera choices don't seem to indicate their ability to kill since Bagel and MJL were killed after non-bad choices were made.

But there was no nightkill between those scenes.

If the scum had yet another nightkill, why in the world wouldn't they have used it then? You're arguing that I was trying to suss out who the AP was so that I could nightkill them,

when there were no more nightkills in the game

. How in the world does that make sense?

I think you're ascribing waaaaaay too much importance to the AP. Look back before S6, when sottyrulez was killed instead of zu_Faul. The scum apparently thought it was more advantageous to kill sottyrulez than to kill zu_Faul. You can argue that it's because they didn't realize that zu_Faul was the AP, but I know that's not the side I'd want to be arguing.

Also @ StarKiss - if you flipped town I'd obviously reassess Thesp but I would most likely still think he's scum because I think zu_Faul, VP, and MO are town. With you out of the picture and town, there'd only be Hewitt & Thesp. It's a pair I've considered, but as I find you the most likely scum here I don't think it is the case.

Where are you getting MO as town from? (Forgive me if I've overlooked it.)

I just want to link this post of DGB's that I refered to earlier:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 93#1932593

The context is DGB suggesting we lynch Hewitt. And she's saying that if he's scum, then Gaspar looks very townie and Pooky looks like a Hewitt buddy. Now I don't pretend to know what goes on inside the mind of DGB, but I think it's much more likely she knew Hewitt would flip town, than she was actively trying to incriminate Pooky and clear Gaspar.

I thought this was going to be compelling when I read your post and was ready to rethink my position here. Upon reading, though, it's at a time when GaB has already stated her strong preference to lynch Gaspar, he's on the chopping block from just about everybody for the fake-pseudo-AP-tease, and there does not appear to be any discernable chance of lynching hewitt.

GaB appears to be trying to suss out how people would react in case hewitt flips scum.

I'm not sure that this is expecting hewitt will be town, but quite the opposite - what happens if hewitt's scum? How do people perceive hewitt and Pooky? I don't think she's trying to show the inverse, that is, I don't think she's trying to demonstrate town-hewitt implies scum-Gaspar and town-Pooky. (It'd be a logical fallacy, anyways, inverting the if-then clause as such.)

I feel like I need to scale back on my posting, as it might be in danger of becoming too much (if it's not there already!). I do want to crunch some Condorcet real quick, though. (Notably, I think there may be something wrong or different in the results.)

[VP Baltar]

I'll be posting here in a bit now that I've finished my morning coffee and have a chance to do some reading, but first:

ort-why are you saying now that you're not caught up and can't really comment on things when you were posting fully earlier in the day when the attention was not on you?

Basically, I'm sick and tired of all the pity party stuff from the people who are potential lynches today. "I'm town, so lynching me is bad" is not a freaking defense, nor is it going to sway me from wanting to lynch you, so if you are town at least take a page from Starkiss' book and TRY to answer stuff. If you've already answered something, then point to the post where you did.