Mini 873 Plainview Game Over

[AlmasterGM]

It's almost 5am and I should be finishing this paper, but instead I decided to procrastinate and read the thread.

Re: MordyS v. Archaebob. I think MordyS wins.

Unvote. Vote: archaebob.

[cruelty]

Continuing with your helpful contributions I see.

[Sanjay]

By the way, there is one thing that is scummy about foilist13 and not just anti-town:

Here.

Context: AlmasterGM just revealed he protected Papa Zito last night. Here is what foilist13 had to say:

Him? Why on earth did you protect him? Sure he technically started the wagon on Socio, but it was Phaerie who really pushed the lynch, so a retal kill would probably go to her. There were several strong town players yesterday to choose from, and Papa Zito, being a replacement, was much less confirmed town than some of the others.

Right now I find Almaster and cruelty (in light of Gammagooey's evidence) super scummy.

This is ludicrous. Papa Zito was very likely town given the Muffin lynch, and this attack is just terribly scummy.

When I questioned him about it the first time, he never answered and I guess I let it slide and mostly forgot about it. I was too pleased with myself for that Nightwing post I guess.

[cruelty]

Hmm Mordy. That's damning. Going to goto bed now but I'll vote bob in the morning (I'd like to read his response first).

[MordyS]

Though I have no doubt now he's scum, I really want him to give a response before he's lynched. After digging that up I wanna see what contortions he'll go through to try and justify it. Anyway, since I think we're about to wrap this day up, here are my more general feelings: I reread Gammagooey and AlmasterGM. I actually have town reads on them both now. Subject to change, but yeah. I find a lot of Sanjay's posts today troublesome, and, though it would mean they were super distancing all Day One, I could see an archaebob/foilist13 scum partnering.

Also, I finally read archaebob's meta. In particular, I read Newbie 842, where he won as scum. Starting from this post (Here) and down, his methodology and technique reads a lot like it does here. He accuses a town player of contradicting himself and dodging questions over and over again. He doesn't really engage in a dialogue, more of just pounding away on these talking points. So to answer Sanjay's question earlier about reconciling archaebob's meta with this game -- I actually see a lot of similarities between that game and this one. Here is one example post so you guys can judge for yourselves (tho obviously a lot of the case comes from the series of posts read in continuum).

I didn't start by relentlessly assaulting him...please play close attention. I started by asking him to define "good pro-town play". My attacks on him are not based on his playstyle, but on the way he dodged my questions.

I asked him about "theory" because I wanted him to justify his playstyle. By dodging my questions, and then giving contradictory answers, he earned my suspicions.

Do a PBPA of me. I think you'll find that everything I've said has been in direct response to something HE has said (or refused to say). Whether or not you agree with my case, I don't think I've done anything to warrant your vote.

[Sanjay]

What's troublesome? I had a town read on the guy. I thought your initial case on him was bogus and I could see why he might react badly to it. And not being that great at scumhunting and being tunneled are all things I expected from town archaebob.

Not that it's that big of a deal. If we lynch archaebob, he comes up scum, a nightkill goes through, and there's just three scum, we'll be at 7 townies versus 1 scum and very few ideas of who that scum is. We'll have plenty of mislynches if we need them.

Not that I expect us to. I think I can win foilist13 vs Sanjay pretty handily.

[MordyS]

It's not about your town read on archaebob. There were a couple individual posts that got my attention. But whatever. I feel really good about lynching archaebob. I can lay out whatever case I have against you tomorrow.

I'm kinda grinning ear-to-ear right now about putting that case together. Any chance archaebob logs on tomorrow, reads it, and just votes himself? It would be epic.

[MordyS]

(In the meantime, Sanjay, if you're awake, take a look at the thread I linked to. Since you thought maybe his scum meta might exonerate him, I wonder what you think about that particular section. Read that page and at least the next page too.)

[Sanjay]

The way I felt it exonerated him: you were accusing him of making a newb-scum mistake, freaking out at being voted for. I felt it unlikely that archaebob would be making that mistake, given that he knows what he is doing as scum.

And as for that particular section, I think that, if archaebob is scum in this game, he's done a very good job of modifying his playstyle to match his town meta. He seems pretty reasonable in 842. In 846, he was very prone to tunneling and loved walls in his offense and just really bludgeoning his suspects with words.

846-archaebob needed to be reigned in and flew off the handle. That's what I saw here.

[Sanjay]

But you're right. The case against me will be here tomorrow.

You did good today.

[archaebob]

listen people, like I've said, I have major papers to write today. If you're going to hammer me before i can respond, then god bless you, but I don't have time to do this today, as I've already stated. Right now, I'm the dead-line lynch, so you have no reason not to give me a day to defend myself properly.

I claim vanilla townie.

I'd be very wary of anyone who tries to force this lynch through before hearing what I have to say, as there is no good reason for it.

AGM, that last vote is making me doubt my read on the entire situation. It looks like you just waited to see who was going to win out in Mordy vs. me, and then dropped your vote on the person who seemed like they were going to get lynched. That was L-1, dude, without any justification or comments. Really?

If I die, when you see my flip, vote MordyS/Sanjay. I hope you guys won't just assume that I'm crazy, because I'm not. Look out how Sanjay has danced around this conversation. Him reverting back to me after it became clear that I was ultimately the under-dog is EXACTLY what I was expecting from him.

I'm going to have the most epic wall of my life on this thread tomorrow night. Do yourselves a favor and let me post it.

[Papa Zito]

Yep. I feel like foilist and archaebob are circling each other. I think it's weird that nobody else seems to want to look at this.

I.... don't know what this means. Elaborate?

Also, I'm really unconvinced by this on/off wagon stuff.

Well, obviously, because you were off.

Bandwagon analysis is one of my chief scumhunting tools. I put a lot of stock in vote movement.

You lynched a guy based on lurking - I can't argue with the results but I don't think you can really justify calling me scummy because I didn't really want to move off someone I thought (think) was (is) genuinely scummy. It's not as though I've been flip flopping or inconsistent in any way. Genuinely don't understand.

Argh. It's too simplistic to call it just lurking. Please go back and read my justification again.

Also, are you seriously trying to tell me that scum can't be consistent in their opinions, and townies can't contradict themselves? Your world is too monochromatic for me.

unvote: archaebob I'm not ready to see a lynch yet, and with mordy ready to hammer, I don't feel right leaving my vote on right now until I really have a chance to decide. I'm fine with archaebob still claiming at l-2, but I don't want to see him claim then get hammered right away.

Gah. You don't let up pressure on a scummy player. If someone quickhammered archaebob it'd be horrendously scummy. You have to give people the chance to be horrendously scummy.

---

I'm going to have the most epic wall of my life on this thread tomorrow night. Do yourselves a favor and let me post it.

I really want the response to MordyS' 1323 to be the first thing addressed.

[Sanjay]

If I die, when you see my flip, vote MordyS/Sanjay. I hope you guys won't just assume that I'm crazy, because I'm not. Look out how Sanjay has danced around this conversation.

Him reverting back to me

after it became clear that I was ultimately the under-dog is EXACTLY what I was expecting from him.

Maybe this is some kind of trick to get me to mention how much I had your back, but this is a ridiculous misrepresentation. What position am I reverting back to? When did I ever want your lynch?

It's nice to know you aren't just really bad at scumhunting, archaebob.

[Benmage]

Vote Count:
archaebob (4) peanutman, Papa Zito, Gammagooey, AlmasterGM
MordyS (2) archaebob, foilist13
Foilist13 (3) Sanjay, cruelty, MordyS

Not voting: (1) PharieM

[foilist13]

My my my my my.

Ok, Sanjay you asked for my strongest town read: Archaebob.

His play is totally consistent with his Newbie 846 play, and very different from his 842 play. I don't see a legitimate scum tell on Archaebob from MoryS at all.

Re: Archaebob's stance on lynching lurkers.

You've cited this as "Damning evidence," but it is not. He said that on principle he would prefer to lynch a lurker on D-1 than an active scummy in order to ensure activity, however in this game that could not be farther from a necessity. The biggest lurker we have here is AGM, and he is comfortable lurking since peanut has pretty much saved him. Peanut also has sort of disappeared....

If anyone else is the cop or the doctor, for the love of god claim.

Anyway, it is quite logical that Archaebob simply changed his opinion in light of his conviction that he had solved the game, and the overwhelming activity of this thread.

This is no tell at all.

Of the two, Mordy is far scummier to me. More than once he has responded to one of Archaebob's wall posts with a one liner or expression of frustration. Your vote of me is just stupid, however, I agree that I have not been a very useful player, and am actually prepared to hammer myself for the benefit of the town if it comes down to me and someone I firmly believe is town, which right now is Archaebob and Gammagooey.

Gamma, if you happen to be scum I give you major props.

@MordyS - Your case is not nearly as good as you think it is. Archaebob's logic is better, and the scum tells he has brought up against you are much more convincing than those you have accused him of.

[Sanjay]

I asked what player you felt was most likely town at the end of day one, foilist13. Given the Muffin flip

[peanutman]

Foilist, I take total offense with your statement that I have disappeared. I have posted a few times in the past few days. Just because I don't stay online and "chat" through an argument with MordyS and Archae, doesn't mean I'm not participating. Don't look at how many posts on the last page, look at the posting in the past few days.

Also, you seem to have some kind of bias when you say that Mordy responds with one liners and expressions of frustration. Have you realized that Archae has also acted that way? Also, for you to say in the same sentence that the vote against you is stupid yet that you agree and would hammer yourself doesn't make any sense. Your stated reasons in your last post for finding Mordy "far scummier" hold no weight at all.

And to top it all of, to give props to Gamma if he happens to be scum? Wouldn't you rather look into it rather than say : "Gamma, you're a tough read so I'll let you win if your scum because you're too good for me."

Way to go, Foilist. Maybe you should hammer yourself if the time comes. As for me, right now, I am perfectly content with my vote still on Archaebob and am eagerly awaiting the hammer so that this game can move forward.

Side note : 1340 posts on day 2 in a mini normal? Really?? I know I've heard enough for the day.

[Sanjay]

foilist13, why did you think Papa Zito was a bad doc protect again?

Walk us through the logic real slow.

[foilist13]

@Sanjay - Same answer to your first question. I didn't like the new wagon at all, but I recognized that most of the people moving to it were from the AGM wagon, so it was then him or me. I thought all the people who just jumped on the new wagon were extremely scummy (hypocritical I know, but I already explained why I was on it) but in light of his flip I find that less likely.

I thought the wagon itself was not a good one, and Phaerie was the instigator, not Papa (that is debatable, but that's what I thought at the time so the point is moot). I felt that Papa was townish, but far from the most pro-town player. At the time I thought Gammagooey, Archaebob, and Mordy were much more pro-town, and much more dangerous for scum.

@Peanut - You are sufficiently active to avoid a prod. Whoohoo!

Archaebob's one liners are in general pointed and followed up. "How close are we to lynching Archaebob?" is not an appropriate response.

I have reread Gammagooey, and it is precisely because I believe he is town that I would be impressed if he were scum.

[Sanjay]

You don't think Papa Zito is obv. town based on the Muffin lynch then?

[archaebob]

@ foilist -

Don't ever self-hammer. You are doing the scum's job for them.

And please stop defending me. Every argument you use in my defense is one that I can no longer use myself, as my attackers will just interpret it as me nodding in agreement with other people who step in for me. The town needs to see that my views are consistent, and they need to see the explanations come from me, without help from others.

I won't be on anymore tonight, as I need to write this paper. I am pleasantly surprised to see myself still alive. Give me 24 hours from now, and I'll post the deluge that Mordy has coming to him. I appreciate the patience, really.

[MordyS]

Actually, town just wants you to answer the questions. I don't really care who said it first. I'll be honest though, I'm losing patience. It's taking lots of selfcontrol not to just hammer you.

[archaebob]

Actually, town just wants you to answer the questions. I don't really care who said it first.

I'll be honest though, I'm losing patience. It's taking lots of selfcontrol not to just hammer you.

I completely believe you.

[foilist13]

@Sanjay - No. Papa is not Obv. town. I've seen scum post cases on their scum buddies once it seemed like there were two opposing wagons that were a sure thing to do some nice distancing. I have had personal experience with this, and I think it is far from impossible that that is exactly what Papa was doing, and obviously he couldn't just back down once it started going somewhere.

[Sanjay]

@Sanjay - No. Papa is not Obv. town. I've seen scum post cases on their scum buddies once it seemed like there were two opposing wagons that were a sure thing to do some nice distancing. I have had personal experience with this, and I think it is far from impossible that that is exactly what Papa was doing, and obviously he couldn't just back down once it started going somewhere.

Oh cool.

So you want to explain why despite him being fourth on your scumlist yesterday you've done zero Papa Zito directed scumhunting today?