Mini 885 - Boom, Game Gutshot/Abandoned by Mod!

[Scott Brosius]

Hey all, will catch up and post tomorrow.

[Aranfan]

Aranfan's post is extremely weird. It looks like a mild attempt to show himself scumhunting while not actually doing anything... wich he then accompanies with a threat...

Wrong. If you can't find a method to 5cvm's madness and gorrilaz doesn't provide one, you lynch 5cvm for methodless madness. THEN, if he flips scum, you can perhaps follow this line of inquiry D2. But we don't do it in reverse (you are so crazy that I'm voting some other player for not explaining why you are helpful, but you keep shining on, you crazy diamond).

Hmm, you're right. It took the cats to drive the point home, but you're right.

Vote: 5cvm

If my count is right this should put 5cvm at L-1. So now would be a really good time for him to start making sense.

ok... Remember what I told you to remember?

Evilgorrilaz, please, elucidate for us, because the only sense 5cvm makes to me is if he's a jester.

Why is he voting a jester? He strongly believed Jester was the only choice...

This is a huge contradiction to his train of thoughts.

My weird post was a rebuttal to button saying I was exagerating without support.


My vote for 5cvm was because hito argued his point well enough to change my mind. Is changing one's mind scummy now?

[A_Squirrel]

Show me the dichotomy. I would like to see it.

Reading the thread is key to success. Do it more. Here ya go.

Oh I hadn't realized. Up until now I've just been posting whatever arbitrary remarks I had felt like posting. =P
Now obviously what I see in that post is different from what you see, because I dont see a dichotomy. So please explain to me how that post sets up a "either A or B is scum, therefore we lynch one and if he flips town, we lynch the other."

Also, welcome Scott, look forward to your remarks.

[Aranfan]

EBWOP: Specifically, Hito convinced me that the benefit to the town of lynching 5cvm outweighed the benefit of keeping the Jester alive.

[xvart]

Welcome, Scott! Happy hunting.

Now on to business: Since my concern about TheButtonmen stalled out several days ago I am going to unvote him and move on to more pressing concerns.

Unvote: TheButtonmen

Although I am severely torn about 5cvm, I am not going to vote for him. There are plenty of ways around this situation without lynching someone who could very likely be town, such as a vig kill or an investigation for a reveal later on. The reason I am torn is because I recently defended a similar pattern of behavior (although it was due to incompetence and not being a jackass) and that person turned out to be scum. I'd rather wait for now. I think we can actually do some scumhunting in the meantime.

With that said, I am finding Evilgorrilaz more and more scummy, with his sudden defense of 5cvm and lack of credible explanation for his defense. It is almost like he knows 5cvm is town and is trying to look like he is defending him now when his possible inevitable lynch is just around the corner.

I also find it strange that his current vote is still his original RVS vote, like he doesn't care that much about who actually gets lynched or want to contribute with his vote.

Vote: Evilgorrilaz

xvart.

[Evilgorrilaz]

Reading the thread is key to success. Do it more. Here ya go.

I don't see the dichotomy in that. He is saying he finds two people scummy - one of the two people is scummier than the other. The two people are not mutually exclusive, as he finds both scummy.

It is almost like humble's post where he says he suspects me and arafan, but finds me scummier.

[Evilgorrilaz]

Although I am severely torn about 5cvm, I am not going to vote for him. There are plenty of ways around this situation without lynching someone who could very likely be town, such as a vig kill or an investigation for a reveal later on. The reason I am torn is because I recently defended a similar pattern of behavior (although it was due to incompetence and not being a jackass) and that person turned out to be scum. I'd rather wait for now. I think we can actually do some scumhunting in the meantime.

With that said, I am finding Evilgorrilaz more and more scummy, with his sudden defense of 5cvm and lack of credible explanation for his defense. It is almost like he knows 5cvm is town and is trying to look like he is defending him now when his possible inevitable lynch is just around the corner.

I also find it strange that his current vote is still his original RVS vote, like he doesn't care that much about who actually gets lynched or want to contribute with his vote.

Vote: Evilgorrilaz

Oh, I didn't notice I was still voting teh squirrel.

Unvote

I don't see how my explanation is not credible. I clearly state I think 5cvm's posts are ways of getting people to react.

@Humble
Oh dang, I completely misread your third post. I thought it said what if 5cvm were modkilled and how would it affect your opinion on Arafan.

Also

5cvm has enough cunning to play such a high risk gambyt and succeed by being deliberately scummy?

Even if it isn't that successful, I don't see why he isn't doing it. So from that point, I think it is possible to read him (or at least get reads on other people because of him). For example, I said I find 5cvm's post nice. Hito starts posting pictures of cats in response. Hito's pictures of cats gives you the opinion that hito is town.

5cvm brings up the point about xvart suddenly lurking for a while. Therefore, he finds xvart scummy for it.

[TheButtonmen]

Alright here's my view on the current situation, Policy lynching D1 really limits the information we have going into D2 (That's Bad), Ignoring scumtells / not pressuring scummy reads to vote for someone you find annoying isn't even bad scum hunting, it's not scum hunting (That's Bad).

In conclusion, you should all vote Arafan (That's Good)

[Scott Brosius]

Hay guyz we're all freinds right? Except xvart.

Fun fact: random.org uses cosmic background radiation.

unvote, vote: xvart

Gogo bandwagon time.

And why the need for a bandwagon? Care to explain?

xvart.

Easy way to get out of RVS. Possible overreaction as scum here.

@xvart: I'm still curious--you accepting the coincidence or was i lying?

I do not accept that it was a coincidence; but, I don't necessarily think it was scummy; I think it's null at this point. It shall be filed away. With that said:

Unvote: A_Squirrel

Every single post by 5cvm has been scummy; not only that, but so brazenly scummy it makes me sick. Could there be a VI in a 12 person game?

xvart.

The sickening scum yet no vote is scummy. xvart---5cvm connection

I really don't like CS posts about discussing Jesters. They rarely occur and do not merit discussion D1. Very distracting.

I'm here, there's just nothing doing.

I say we lynch the lurker

so as to save the mod trouble,

and to rid the game of some dead weight.

To that end;

Vote: magisterrain

The bolded part looks scummy. Almost as if he needs an excuse to vote and is attempting to "do a good thing for the game"

Vote: 5cvm

I'm always on board for a policy lynch. It becomes too much of a distraction otherwise if we let him live.

[TheButtonmen]

@ Scott Brosius

Wait so you layout reasons 2-3 people look scummy, then vote for a policy lynch?

[Seregil]

Sorry, I've had a busy Mon/Tues. I've read all the posts but won't post until this evening after doing a bit of a re-read.

[ChiboSempai]

Yea Scott honestly why would you vote for 5cvm for nothing more than policy really after you go ahead and give 2 (sorta 1.5 I suppose) scumtells for xvart and one for Aranfan?

As for my Jester discussion, there was really no other discussion going on at the time so I don't see how it was distracting. It was later dropped when it needed to be.

Is there a deadline set for this day yet?

[Humble Poirot]

Quick post, not much time, but this is insane... Scott.. How many pages have you read? Why did you rush to hop on the biggest bandwaggon?

[hitogoroshi]

Thank you to Humble 274 for being I believe the first post that actually understands what justifications could prevent a policy lynch. That being said, I disagree that you could get something out of that player slot. Once again, I'm gonna want to see evidence that he could do anything pro-town, ever.

With that said, I am finding Evilgorrilaz more and more scummy, with his sudden defense of 5cvm and lack of credible explanation for his defense. It is almost like he knows 5cvm is town and is trying to look like he is defending him now when his possible inevitable lynch is just around the corner.

This is a perfect crystallized example of why I want to policy lynch D1. Why play this guesswork? You agree that we want someone to deal with 5cvm, but why not us, right now? That would be an equally good way of testing the 5cvm<--->Gorrilaz connection. :p

Alright here's my view on the current situation, Policy lynching D1 really limits the information we have going into D2 (That's Bad), Ignoring scumtells / not pressuring scummy reads to vote for someone you find annoying isn't even bad scum hunting, it's not scum hunting (That's Bad).

In conclusion, you should all vote Arafan (That's Good)

So button, tell me, are we:

1.) Leaving 5cvm alive forever and ever
2.) Policy lynching him on a later day?

Policy lynching doesn't give us as much information. But it

has to be done

: that is why policy lynching is a concept that exists. D1 is the day when we're least likely to nail scumbags on evidence anyway, so D1 is the day to policy lynch. For example, you said to Brosius, "You identified scumtells and then went for a policy lynch?" That's what we SHOULD be doing: because we'll have more posts to look for scum reads in D2 but 5cvm will never contribute less than he already is.

I agree, it's better to hunt off of evidence. But if 5cvm is never going to give us evidence, it's better for us to lynch him now, rather than going for it on, say, D3, when we have so much more ammunition to use against scum.

[hitogoroshi]

EBWOP: That would be button 282, not 2822. I hope this game does not go on that long :/.

[ChiboSempai]

What is the 5cvm <> gorillaz connection? I didn't notice it

[hitogoroshi]

Most of the suspicion on gorrilaz is based on the fact that he apparently likes 5cvm's play but has yet to defend his reasoning. But that's a lot of what-if that will condense into something far more tangible when 5cvm flips.

[TheButtonmen]

@ Hito

What do we gain by lynching 5cvm rather then a person we find scummy?

[hitogoroshi]

We don't have to lynch him later, when we have a better idea who is scummy.

[TheButtonmen]

Why doesn't this "better idea of who is scummy" extend to 5cvm?

[A_Squirrel]

Most of the suspicion on gorrilaz is based on the fact that he apparently likes 5cvm's play but has yet to defend his reasoning. But that's a lot of what-if that will condense into something far more tangible when 5cvm flips.

Doesn't have to be delayed. If 5cvm flips town, then ______________. If 5cvm flips scum, then ________________.

[hitogoroshi]

Why doesn't this "better idea of who is scummy" extend to 5cvm?

Because everyone else is actually posting content. 5cvm is not. If you want to know what you will think of 5cvm on D3, just imagine him saying "LAWLZ I AM SCUM WITH BUTTON AND XVART AND ALSO HITO IS INFORMED SK" for two days.

And squirrel, are you seriously suggesting that your opinion on gorrilaz's support-without-defense on 5cvm won't be influenced by the knowledge of 5cvm's flip? Believe me when I say that killing 5cvm will be the one and only time we get information from that slot.

[A_Squirrel]

No that's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is that you can assume that knowledge to make a guess. Like those what-if statements you were talking about earlier. Except that you sort of pushed them away as if we needed the lynch first. Only we don't. And I just don't see the connection between the two, so I'm asking you to explain further. If 5cvm flips town, what does that say about evil? And if 5cvm flips scum, what does that say about evil?

[TheButtonmen]

5cvms opinion has changed over the course of the game and he's slowly becoming more coherent, I expect that trend to continue to a point. On the other hand I have a very strong scum read today.

I'd rather lynch somebody I'm 75% on day 1 then lynch someone I'm 15-20% on day 1. Especially when that 15-20% could change quite a bit by day 3

[Seregil]

hito - your explanations of policy lynching since I voted makes sense of why you voted 5cvm. I must admit I haven't encountered a discussion it before. So far where I usually play mafia I haven't seen any plays/players where policy lynching would have been needed.

unvote hito

Now I have to decide to agree with your argument.