Open 185 v2.0: JK9 (Game Over)

[Qooq]

/confirm

Reading now.

[Qooq]

FOS: CSL

I shouldn’t need too much of explanation for this one as much of the suspicion has already been raised. All one really needs to do is compare two of CSL’s earliest posts (10 and 14) to the one in which he voted for kyle99 (46). The discrepancy is obvious and it raises similarly obvious questions about what caused such a large gap in his strategy. I’ll flat out say his explanation in post 53 doesn’t cut it for me and that I will need a more detailed response from him before I am no longer suspicious. I will admit that the post where he threatened to replace himself if the game doesn’t become active doesn’t read scummy to me, though.

I don’t put my vote on CSL because on first read, kyle99 looked suspicious to me also. Right now I’m reading kyle99 as overanxious, perhaps inexperienced townie. I believe I need to be careful here because I don’t want to put words in CSL’s mouth (his reason for voting kyle99 was a grammar mistake), but I think I understand why he had his vote there, though I will need confirmation from him to be sure. To CSL: Could you please clarify your vote on kyle99 further.

If it’s worth anything, I’m reading Ginz and populartajo town right now, also.

[Qooq]

Just so it’s clear, I made my last post before I saw kyle99’s most recent post. I should’ve refreshed the thread. My apology.

FOS: kyle99

kyle99’s voting pattern is sketchy to me and makes him look suspicious. In post 24, he called for a lurker lynch. Then, in post 30, he put a vote on Ginz that from my perspective served no purpose other than to stir up discussion. Now, in post 69, he has made a vote with little of his own reasoning. I am not insinuating that kyle99 is trying to bandwagon, but I’m not sold on the justification behind his vote. We are nearing a lynch and putting someone close to L-1 because you want to hear an explanation is not simply not warranted to me. Neither is scum hunting for the sake of scumhunting. There is only so much you can blame on inexperience.

To CSL: Is that all you are willing to say about your vote?

[Qooq]

Then, in post 30, he put a vote on Ginz that from my perspective served no purpose other than to stir up discussion.

Is that not good enough reason?

In the context of your other votes, I don't believe so. I think it is dangerous to vote in so many different ways. It makes you hard to read, and making yourself hard to read is anti-town and a scum tell.

[Qooq]

Vote: CSL

Self-incrimination is anti-town. I think it’s clear at this point with so much suspicion against you that your explanation for your vote on kyle99 might as well be your lifeline. If you are unwilling to defend yourself then it is obvious that you don’t value your stake in the game. Sending yourself to the gallows doesn’t help the town and that is why you earn my vote.

[Qooq]

That puts CSL on L-1, by the way. Also, I want to correct a typo in post 72.

We are nearing a lynch and putting someone close to L-1 because you want to hear an explanation is not simply not warranted to me.

Should read "is simply not warranted to me".

[Qooq]

We are nearing a lynch and putting someone close to L-1 because you want to hear an explanation is simply not warranted to me.

Vote: CSL

Excuse me, but did you contradict yourself?

FoS: Qooq

My thought process was I thought we were still in the RVS.

I put a finger of suspicion on you to impel you for an explanation. When you failed to give a sufficient one, I then put my vote on you. Where I criticized kyle99 for voting, I FoS’d. Also, still in RVS? That makes even less sense to me and doesn’t provide any reasonable justification. You were against quick lynches in the RVS and then voted (when discussion was well underway) for a grammar mistake. This type of inconsistent plays hurts the town.

Ginz, if you believe a hammer now would be anti-town, why are you hesitant to remove your vote and take CSL off L-1? Is there something that makes you feel CSL is not scum? I was at first hesitant to place my vote on CSL also. At this moment, based on the information we have so far, I feel my vote is right. However, if you feel like you have any information that speaks otherwise I would be all ears. It does make me nervous that CSL is on L-1 with a few lurkers still in the game, but nothing CSL has said has proven my original suspicion incorrect.

[Qooq]

Going to go ahead and

Unvote

before someone gets trigger happy.

Obviously that type of claim requires a bit more consideration. Would love to hear from the people who haven't posted much before moving forward.

[Qooq]

Hmm, an interesting twist to say the least. I’m not sure that the counterclaim was a good decision, though. I wish I had gotten in a post before Ginz claimed Jailkeeper. We had plenty to work with and had plenty of time. Alas, safe to say I will be highly interested in what happens tonight and will be closely watching tajo as the day begins tomorrow.

Vote: CSL

As it is too late to debate the consequences of a counterclaim, this vote is pretty easy. CSL has been suspicious to me the entire game and joe’s logic in post 93 is sound to me. Twilight time.

[Qooq]

I’m not sure that it was. As I said, we had plenty to talk about and had plenty of time. Counterclaiming is either going to work great or backfire horribly. Only time will tell, and, as the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20. It is also a bit strange that you called for a counterclaim (regardless of how you look at it, optimal or not) a really radical strategy, and then asked people to back off and talk about it. Can you argue with joe’s logic or think of a reason not to lynch CSL? I don't mean to be hostile; there are no votes or FoS’s here, all I said was that I would treat your posts with more care.

[Qooq]

If nobody had counterclaimed csl, do you think he would have been lyched?

I don't think he would've been lynched tonight. Tonight, meaning, December 9th, 2009. We would have had more time, that I am sure of. I am not arguing that it was better than a counterclaim, in fact, there is a chance this counterclaim could be much, much better than waiting and delaying a lynch, but who is to say we couldn't have counterclaimed after debunking his claim a bit?

Finally, I asked people not to back off. I wanted to have everyone commenting on this situation to get better reads. I dont feel confortable with going to night in page 4, even if we have found one scum.

If you didn't want someone to be lynched on page 4 (do page numbers have some sort of significance to you, by the way?) then why call for a counterclaim? If anything, something like a counterclaim would speed up the lynch process exponentially, like it has here. I guess I'm just not understanding your mentality. Paraphrasing from my point of view, you want the topic to be fully discussed, yet you propose a rather extreme idea that inspires a lynch whose logic you fully agree with.

I am the Jailkeeper.

I won't use my action tonight because I think the tracker has better odds to pick my killer whereas I could accidentally block the tracker. So on with the lynch!

Use your action on me tonight.

Umm... any chance for further explanation? That came out of left field. As far as I understand, we don't have a lot of time during twilight so the quicker the better.

[Qooq]

This game died when Saber self hammered.

Is Saber CSL?

I don't know what to say, honestly. A scummy-looking townie claimed JK to try and save his life and got counterclaimed by the actual JK who got killed by the mafia overnight. Cool.

I'm not sure the logic behind the joe lynch is quite right, though. Let's pretend joe is scum for a moment. We know that neither CSL or Ginz were his partner and he would obviously knew that, too. When they both claimed JK he would have known that one was a townie, and one was the actual JK (unless both of them were false-claiming). What would be the point of drawing attention to himself like that? I'm not seeing it.

[Qooq]

Hito: I'll go on record by saying I agree with the majority of your iso-analysis and have no major problems with it (thanks for replacing in by the way). I particularly like what you said about kyle. I agree he has actively lurked, although I must admit the game has been pretty dead. And when it has sped up, I controlled most of the dialogue. I really liked what you said here:

And I've got nothing for scum buddies. There are no connections I'm basing a case off of - this is only page 6, and it's a page six with mostly non-content posts. I'm not even that happy voting at ALL when multiple players have basicially said nothing; but we also desperately need to get this game moving and so I picked the scummiest player I could find. I think it goes without saying I certainly don't want a lynch until everyone is fully in this game.

I am not getting a definitive scum read either and that is making me nervous. Tajo (CKD) seems scummy to me because of the way the roleclaim turned out, but I think that is pretty unfair to him since I was reading him town before that. Hindsight is always 20/20 and while I don't agree it was the optimal play, I don't think asking for the roleclaim was a necessarily scummy play. Like I said when it happened, it was either going to be great or horrible.

FoS: mykonian

Mykonian flew onto my scumdar when he started aimlessly throwing his vote around. First he quickly voted for joe, by far the easiest target to jump at the start of day 2, with fallacious logic and quickly remanded it when I barely questioned his vote. Next he voted drowmage for lurking. Now his vote is on CKD because he is hard to read, even though he hasn't posted in this game at all. Inconsistent voting is anti-town. It makes one hard to read and as such, makes it hard to analyze both the person voting and the people who react towards that person's vote.

At this point though, I'm not really sure what to do. With people replacing in it's hard to go for a lurker lynch, especially when they can't really provide a good reason for the person lurking in the first place. I guess I would be down for a lurker lynch on principle, though. I'm guessing that with CSL basically screwing the town over it would be tempting to sit back and watch the town implode and not say anything. As cynical as this is going to sound though, I'm not sure that 'everyone getting active and posting' will really help much of anything. Obviously I'm for anything constructive but what are the replacements supposed to say?

"Sorry the other guy lurked, I'm not sure why..."
"Sorry my guy asked to be roleblocked for basically no reason..."
"Sorry the other guy asked for a roleclaim which destroyed the town..."

I'm all ears and pretty flexible at this point.

[Qooq]

Also, Qooq:

And when it has sped up, I controlled most of the dialogue.

Could you explain this line a little more?

I don't mean to let other people answer questions for me, but I did mean what kunkstar said. I replaced into a pretty inactive game around post 70 where it picked up because I played pretty aggro until the CSL lynch. It's been relatively quiet since.