Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

[Cobalt]

Can someone give me some DoS meta? Preferably close to his current play.

[Iecerint]

Moviestar Madness just finished today.

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: I'm assuming you're referring to chronological closeness, but....

[Cobalt]

I meant in terms of parallel play, to maximize my ability to read him here.

[Iecerint]

He was actually really active in MM, it looks like. Everyone sorta was, though. : /

[Plum]

PEOPLE: Check

here

and tell me how much it looks like Zwets' play here. He was Town in that game. How conclusive do you find the meta evidence against Zwets - which is the bulk of the case - in light of this?Do you still believe hee's playing against his Town meta as opposed to against his general playstyle? Please feel free to compare to the examples of Zwets-scum posted by others. Thanks and have a nice day &c.

Gorrad: I checked your examples, don't see a real parallel. I do seem to see a big, nay huge difference between Zwets-scum here and Zwets there.

Saber: No, I don't expect everyone to have a completely unique reason to be on a bandwagon. I expect everyone to have a

good

reason. That's one of the criteria I use to judge a bandwagon. Contrary to your professed opinion, I believe that there are objectively good targets and good bandwagons Day 1, even in a very large game. No, really. Zwets isn't an example of a good wagon and many people on the wagon don't have good reason for him to be their top lynch. Multiple others are guilty of what they're calling him out for (lurking more than usual and not reacting much to the wagon on him are the only two reasons I consider remotely legitimate, and the first has not even proven to be part of his scum meta so much as not part of his playstyle as any alignment, and the second is legit but, frankly, not as strong a point of scumminess as are found pertaining to many other players). Others are shamelessly bandwagoning or shamelessly policy-lynching. Cute comic, though.

Zwets is not a fine secondary choice. Zwets is a fine fifth or below choice. DisCode is a good choice. DeathNote is at least as good a choice, active but contributing nothing useful, posting but not actually helping. Fuzzy's IioA post was pretty egregiously bad and I have a healthy slice of gut to go with that. Saberwolf tried to distance himself from the bandwagon's consequences in an extremely scummy manner. Kise doesn't even spare a word as to his reason for voting Zwets. Hayker hasn't posted since last Tuesday and mostly posted long walls of flavor background. Malthusis hasn't posted for over a week. Point is, why Zwets? It's too easy a wagon probably because it's Zwets. Others are being just as, if not more, scummy, and certainly multiple others are just as lurky, and here we are with Zwets the nigh-inevitable lynch, depending on his claim.

Suffice it to say that it makes me like the Zwets wagon less and makes me want to scrutinize the people on it to see who comes out looking worst of the wagoners re: the wagon.

I basically agree with Saber's theory post about pre-planning things.

RECK: I don't see the lurking. I just see normal Zwets. Seriously. Telling me that the playstyle doesn't differ too much is all good and well, but by that count it also doesn't diverge much from what I've seen of him as Town.

Kise: I prefer pirates to ninjas anyway, so nyeh.

Needless to say, but why not throw the baby out with the bathwater, I find Ice's Post 697 eminently sane.

I'm not tunneling on Fuzzy for lurking (:? - though he has been and did try to throw pebbles at other lurkers in similar glass houses, so that strengthens my feelings on him somewhat). I'm focusing on him as a top suspect for Post 356. I think I've discussed many times why I find that post so scummy.

Raider is also being sane, so I plan to look into DoS later tonight. Except that I think Raider's wrong about Zwets having an incentive to die.

We don't need to "drag this out" but I'd prefer dragging to a Zwets lynch at present.

*Tears hair out*

If Zwets seriously keeps ignoring this, this will be inevitable even if it's not optimal.

[Cobalt]

I tried to get a wagon going on DN, but I didn't get much support, and then Ice tried that weird attack on where he claimed I feigned ignorance of DN's meta. I'd like to lynch DN but I don't see the support for a wagon.

[Iecerint]

Malthusis doesn't exist anymore. I am Malthusis. I agree with most of your post, except that DeathNote's meta is just as scummy as zwet's, so I think you could cross-supply your problem with the zwet wagon to the hypothetical DeathNote wagon. That's why I found Cobalt's DeathNotewagon championing suspicious, which led to all that notorious drama.

Needless to say, but why not throw the baby out with the bathwater, I find Iec's Post 697 eminently sane.

First, that quote is the same as the previous one, and post 697 wasn't mine. Which post did you mean? Second, I don't understand your tone here. Is the second sentence sardonic in light of the first? If not, what are you trying to communicate by the first?

[Kise]

The obvious difference, Plum, is that zwet is asking questions in that game you linked. He's actively trying to find out who's scum because he genuinely doesn't know. Here? Laziness, probably with no need to find scum because he is scum.

664 from Kise saying that they "skipped over" the 'squabble.' Damn, I want to know what passes for scum tells here. I sincerely wish to know this.

Dude defends himself, does nothing else, does not help town in the pursuit of any lynches, gives flawed reasoning, backs off fast as hell when the guy he votes proves he can post (that's me btw) and then just goes back into the shadow.

Also I see this as scummy if DoS does indeed flip scum at a given point because I have found it common that people sometimes get uncomfortable talking directly about taking sides when their scumbuddies are involved because it can be picked at later. Just food for thought.

Is the bolded supposed to be what I've done? Because.. I didn't.. do any of those things.. thank you for getting an avy. It was part of the reason I always skimmed your arguments (you had no character, no life, no flair!). If I have to put it in other words, I didn't feel as though either you or DoS could be scum. I could see townies raising the same points you both have. It doesn't look like an "either-or" situation on top of that.

Thanks for ignoring me, guys. zwet can get lynched since no one cares about Dis. (See my point?)

[Sir Chris]

that was DoS.

[Gorrad]

Plum the connection between Bleach Mafia 1 and this game is, much as Kise said, in Bleach he did not do anything. He posted, si, but, like here, did nothing. As town, he has terrible posts, but he TRIES to catch scum.

[Cobalt]

We're giving the meta argument too much merit. The way I look at it, we have a player whose contribution to scumhunting is apparently nil and shows no prospect of improvement. If he's not going to hunt scum at all, why should we let him slide?

[Kise]

FTR, I don't policy lynch. That defeats the spirit of the game. People sign up and expect to play a good game, not get taken out for shits and giggles. Now, this has nothing to do with my opinion of zwet in this game because he's doing dick all. Either he's scum that doesn't need to scumhunt, or in any event he's just not interested in playing.

[DragonsofSummer]

raider, why is DoS scummy for encouraging players to tunnel whereas I am not (at least not so far as you've described)? I could be fairly criticized as tunneling on Cobalt all game, but I didn't get scumpick in your post. To the extent that DoS is scummy for that, it seems that I would be, too. I'm not disputing that DoS may be scummy; I'm just trying to iron out an apparent inconsistency.

Wait when did I encourage tunnelling? I don't believe I ever said anything about it in a positive context?

@Raider: So your case on me is I've been trying to control the game by what? Not being as present as most people? That seems like terrible logic to me. It looks more to me like you are just saying hey DoS is scummy look at him, with crap reasoning and no evidence.

As for whoever was asking about my meta, I tend to post less at the beginning (day 1 in general) in large themes. Whether its because of the sheer amount of posts (at least half of which are irrelevant), or because I don't tend to have strong opinions on most people until after day one with this many I am unsure of. My play picks up starting on day 2 usually. So yes I am a lurker to an extent.

[raider8169]

Eh, your thing was a far more extreme example if it stood out in my mind.

From my PoV, raider calling out DoS but not you is scummy regardless of if DoS actually did claim people were tunneling.

Please go back and reread DoS's post and let me know if you still feel this way. They were differences in their posts, mainly Sir Chris was willing and did look at other people before deciding on who he would like to go after, I never was such evidence from DoS and moreso that he never showed intent to attack anyone else or willingness to do so.

[raider8169]

@Raider: So your case on me is I've been trying to control the game by what? Not being as present as most people? That seems like terrible logic to me. It looks more to me like you are just saying hey DoS is scummy look at him, with crap reasoning and no evidence.

lol, I love it when people only skim posts and think they got the idea or when they try to turn the words to something else. Either way you were calling out people for tunnel vision when they disagreed with you. As soon as someone responded you left. It looks like you were going after or trying to find easy targets. Can you say you have done otherwise?

[Shotty to the Body]

If everyone could reread 356 and tell me what they think that would be great, you could also iso fuzzy he has like 5 posts. If we want to kill someone that isn't zwet I support fuzzy or discode lynches.

[Iecerint]

It's quite egregious, isn't it? The unvote for RF is fine (I think I may have had my RFswitch around the same time), but the way he phrases the DC stuff ("He claimed miller, but he isn't really a miller", "I want to know what his real role is") is very odd. I vaguely recall that another player had already mentioned his suggestion that the Riku speculation was scum handing DC a fakeclaim, so he's just taking another person's argument IIRC. That he phrases that bit as a question implies that he is introducing that point for the first time, which I find disingenuous. (Let me know if FL really did introduce that point first.) Then he says the rest of the thread isn't worth commenting on because it's too jokey. He also drops the game after that post.

There are too many scummy players in this game.

Unvote; Vote: fuzzylightning

, I suppose. <_< I'm ambivalent on zwet because I can't read him very well and his play here isn't really different from the other games I've seen him in.

[Gorrad]

For those of you keeping score at home, that puts Zwet back at L-3.

Zwet, I would recommend claiming now. Eleven people want you dead.

[DeathNote]

Zwet won't claim, just so you know.

[Papa Zito]

Plum's talking like she knows what zwet will flip.

Plum, I don't know nor care what zwet's meta is. All I know is that he isn't contributing anything whatsoever to the game, and I've lynched too many scum who play the lurker game to stop now. You can say "Yeah but so-and-so isn't doing anything either" if you want but that doesn't excuse zwet (or those people for that matter) at all. I'll happily join a viable wagon on any other lurker scum, especially on Day 1 of a large game where it's just too easy to lurk. If zwet's wagon suddenly magically melted away and was replaced by *insert scummy lurking player slot here* then I'd join that one too. This isn't about zwet, this is about removing scummy players and improving our chances down the road.

That said, I'm also up for lynching one of Sir Chris/Rayfrost just to make them shut up.

[Shotty to the Body]

Plum's talking like she knows what zwet will flip.

Plum, I don't know nor care what zwet's meta is. All I know is that he isn't contributing anything whatsoever to the game, and I've lynched too many scum who play the lurker game to stop now. You can say "Yeah but so-and-so isn't doing anything either" if you want but that doesn't excuse zwet (or those people for that matter) at all. I'll happily join a viable wagon on any other lurker scum, especially on Day 1 of a large game where it's just too easy to lurk. If zwet's wagon suddenly magically melted away and was replaced by *insert scummy lurking player slot here* then I'd join that one too. This isn't about zwet, this is about removing scummy players and improving our chances down the road.

That said, I'm also up for lynching one of Sir Chris/Rayfrost just to make them shut up.

Then are you amenable to a fuzzy lynch? Melt!

unvote vote Fuzzylightning

[Iecerint]

Why do you want zwet to claim at less than L-1+intent to lynch, Gorrad? Limiting claims should be a goal.

[Kdub]

Is DisCode being replaced yet? It bothers me that he could do what he did and get ignored just by disappearing from the game.

Still disagree with Reckoner about zwet's play in EoW, but he's not helping himself much here by not defending himself.

[Gorrad]

Why do you want zwet to claim at less than L-1+intent to lynch, Gorrad? Limiting claims should be a goal.

Because right now he's the obvious lynch, and the more he delays the less likely it is that we'll be able to change targets if his claim is enough for us to warrant doing so. Deadline is in 8 days.