888: X-COM TFTD Mafia: Over!

[Tracey Morris]

Are the aliens a third party? Was Gehrad an alien recruiter? M.C. Controller makes me think that might be the case. If the mafia killed him, that would be the explanation.

[Jaime Marcelle]

The beginning flavor text leads me to beleive that he was either scum or an SK. However, I still want to know are there multiple species of aliens?

Also, Gerhard seemed to be a VERY opportunistic scum: voting both Edward and Stuart when they were the most scummy people. He also attacked Orski (Edward's replacement) which leads me to beleive that whoever the replacement is for Orski is town.

Also, looking back I don't think he pointed anyone out as being town. Sure he defended people like Andrew said but that's not enough incriminating evidence for me to go on. Anyway, I'll keep thinking about this but for now I'll keep my vote off anyone.

[Claude Lefevre]

I think we are missing a general view:

There are two options. The first is that Gerhard was scum, the second is that he was a SK.

If he was a scum, he must have had scum-buddie(s). Since his role looks like an anti-town pr (judging from the name, at least, it does not sound like "nilla scum" to me, and he sez that the role was complicated), it is surprising that the remaining scum-buddie(s) didn't kill anyone. (only possible counter-argument: the victim of Gerhard buddies was saved).

If he was a SK, then he was very likely killed by mafia (unless we have a twilight-vig). In this case he would have no partners.

I lean towards the second, cuz I think the odds are better than "he was member of scumteam2 & he was murdered by scumteam1 & the victim of scumteam2 was saved"... in other words, I follow the Ockham Razor.

I gotta re-read and reconsider my FoS's. I will also post some substance about Jamie's post 303, and I will explain why it bothers me.

[Igor Schultz]

The beginning flavor text leads me to beleive that he was either scum or an SK. However, I still want to know are there multiple species of aliens?

Also, Gerhard seemed to be a VERY opportunistic scum: voting both Edward and Stuart when they were the most scummy people. He also attacked Orski (Edward's replacement) which leads me to beleive that whoever the replacement is for Orski is town.

Also, looking back I don't think he pointed anyone out as being town. Sure he defended people like Andrew said but that's not enough incriminating evidence for me to go on. Anyway, I'll keep thinking about this but for now I'll keep my vote off anyone.

yes I think I already told you this! he used what the game calls psy powers. He would contrl someone and kill through him. Thats how it works in the game. So he would be considered a mafia sk. I don't think that their is a 3rd party of any sort. Gerard was part of the scum faction. All of the aleins in x-com no matter of race work together never apart. It would help for everybody to actually play a round or two of x-com I have a download site alredy found: http://dosgamer.com/x-com-ufo-defense/, and tftd http://dosgamer.com/x-com-terror-from-the-deep/ you will also need dosbox to run these you can google that or go to: http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1. Play one hour of each (once you get past the learning wall) and then come and ask the town if he was an sk. Try raiding a base in ether game and tell me his role. Go on any ol' mission and tell me if there is an sk.

[Tracey Morris]

Or we have a bus driver and the aliens killed one of their own on accident. But, I find this whole game setup conversation uninteresting and a diversion from actual scumhunting.

[Tracey Morris]

on Otto's claim:

(a) it is a good idea because:

if he is NK immune, we lose the option of tricking scum into trying to kill him (possibly even several times), but assuming that we trust him, we gain an allegedly clear PR, which could be a good starting point.

How is losing the option of tricking scum to kill him a good thing?

I explained my role as close as I could without actually quoting the mod. I replaced all you's with I's.

That's all you did? You didn't change all the "were" to "was"? This claim is utter bullshit. He realized he blew it with his hammer and is trying to get everyone off of him before it starts.

Vote: Otto Ulbreicht

[Claude Lefevre]

Or we have a bus driver and the aliens killed one of their own on accident. But, I find this whole game setup conversation uninteresting and a diversion from actual scumhunting.

This may look too "creative", but I think it makes more sense than Igor's post... whatever...

@Tracey: losing the option of tricking mafia into killing Otto is obviously a bad thing, ça va sans dire... I was trying to spare the platitude and investigate further aspects of the current situation.

I will explain now why I am leaning towards believing Otto's claim. Assume that he is a NK-immune PR. He suddenly sees that a very scummy player claims to be a 1-shot BG. He thinks "yeah. yeah. and how many nk immunes are there in this game?". He assumes tha Stuart is scum and he hammers. This looks like a conceivable scenario to me. It is not a conclusive argumentation, tho.

Now I briefly discuss Jamie's post 303. Proposing that some powers of Stuart, and namely a power allowing him to "know for a fact" that Emile is scum, were kept hidden after his death seems very unlikely to me. Also, it sounds like an argumentation that was constructed "ad hoc" to support an Emile lynch. This is potentially extremely scummy.

Also, I dun like players who spread their FoS's and state that they do not want to vote, yet.

I am confused. I keep getting contradictory "vibes" from Jamie's activity. 2 pages ago I was almost convinced that he wasn't so scummy after all. Now I am keeping my eyes on him again, and although I hate opening the dance, I will put my vote back on him.

Vote: Jamie

.

[Tracey Morris]

I will explain now why I am leaning towards believing Otto's claim. Assume that he is a NK-immune PR. He suddenly sees that a very scummy player claims to be a 1-shot BG. He thinks "yeah. yeah. and how many nk immunes are there in this game?". He assumes tha Stuart is scum and he hammers. This looks like a conceivable scenario to me. It is not a conclusive argumentation, tho.

I had not thought of that. That is a valid point, but my vote will remain until Otto chimes back in.

[Spencer Remmington]

There are lots of reasons why there was only one kill last night. Many of which include there being only one kill. Discussing this only helps scum for two reasons:
1. It prevents/slows scumhunting
2. It allows scum to figure out what happened last night while town is still left in the dust.

I feel awesome for pinging Gerhard.

Please don't.

Question for Otto: Does being a bulletproof have anything to do with why you hammered Whyte?
Note: Please ignore Claude's last post.

Emile's reaction to Stuart's vote is definitely not town knowing that Stuart was town.

Vote: Emile Buchard

[malthusis]

"We also have some more good news," says the Head Scientist. "We found the sub the aliens got smuggled in on. We are currently analyzing it for any scrap of info we can find that will help us in the search of the aliens among us." After typing a few things into a pager in his pocket, he leaves the Pen, the huge door locking behind him.

The First Vote Count of Day 2:

Emile Buchard:2 (Spencer, Andrew)

Otto Ulbreicht:1 (Tracey)
Jaime Marcelle:1 (Claude)

Not Voting:6 (Orski, Igor, Emile, Jaime, Leon, Otto)

[Andrew Lemarchand]

Emile's reaction to Stuart's vote is definitely not town knowing that Stuart was town. Vote: Emile Buchard

You had said that you were going to vote Otto today. What exactly about Emile's p.305 made you change your mind?

[Claude Lefevre]

There are lots of reasons why there was only one kill last night. Many of which include there being only one kill. Discussing this only helps scum for two reasons:
1. It prevents/slows scumhunting
2. It allows scum to figure out what happened last night while town is still left in the dust.

I feel awesome for pinging Gerhard.

Please don't.

Question for Otto: Does being a bulletproof have anything to do with why you hammered Whyte?
Note: Please ignore Claude's last post.

Emile's reaction to Stuart's vote is definitely not town knowing that Stuart was town.

Vote: Emile Buchard

lots to comment about this strange post.
1) please, explain why discussing the night dynamics would help scum? If there are no sk, there was either a bus driving action or scum deliberately eliminated on teammate. They very likely already spotted what happened and we should assume that they know more than us.
2) what do you mean by "town knowing that Stuart was town"?

I understand why my last post is a problem to you: I may have suggested Otto a way out, if he is scum. But hell, we must talk about something! And besides, would you clear your position in the Otto or Emile situation? Or you think that they are both scum?

I am confused. Could everyone please stop being scummy at the same time? Kidding, but Spencer, please, explain.

[Emile Buchard]

@Claude, I don't really understand your case on Jaimie. Explain?

[Tracey Morris]

Emile's reaction to Stuart's vote is definitely not town knowing that Stuart was town. Vote: Emile Buchard

You had said that you were going to vote Otto today. What exactly about Emile's p.305 made you change your mind?

Other than Emile's post being very non-committal? I think his reasoning is pretty clear for his vote in the quote you provided.

[Tracey Morris]

Now I briefly discuss Jamie's post 303. Proposing that some powers of Stuart, and namely a power allowing him to "know for a fact" that Emile is scum, were kept hidden after his death seems very unlikely to me. Also, it sounds like an argumentation that was constructed "ad hoc" to support an Emile lynch. This is potentially extremely scummy.

Is it possible he had a list of the scum but was unable to say he had a list or explain why he was voting for anyone on the list? That does seem a little far-fetched so I doubt that is true...

[Jaime Marcelle]

yes I think I already told you this! he used what the game calls psy powers. He would contrl someone and kill through him. Thats how it works in the game. So he would be considered a mafia sk. I don't think that their is a 3rd party of any sort. Gerard was part of the scum faction. All of the aleins in x-com no matter of race work together never apart. It would help for everybody to actually play a round or two of x-com I have a download site alredy found: http://dosgamer.com/x-com-ufo-defense/, and tftd http://dosgamer.com/x-com-terror-from-the-deep/ you will also need dosbox to run these you can google that or go to: http://www.dosbox.com/download.php?main=1. Play one hour of each (once you get past the learning wall) and then come and ask the town if he was an sk. Try raiding a base in ether game and tell me his role. Go on any ol' mission and tell me if there is an sk.

Thanks! I'll have to try those sometime (I doubt I'll be able to today) but judging from your answer I assume that Gerhard was an scum but the question is... What happened to the scums kill? There is the chance of the bus driver but is there anyone in XCOM that could possibly do that? Meh, I'll just keep this in the back of my head for now.

Now I briefly discuss Jamie's post 303. Proposing that some powers of Stuart, and namely a power allowing him to "know for a fact" that Emile is scum, were kept hidden after his death seems very unlikely to me. Also, it sounds like an argumentation that was constructed "ad hoc" to support an Emile lynch. This is potentially extremely scummy.

Did you read the answer to this? I know how bad the chances are but the whole part of this was a reply to the convo of "What if Stuart knows that Emile is scum. That would explain why he wants to lynch him so much!"

Also, I dun like players who spread their FoS's and state that they do not want to vote, yet.

I was anylizing what we had so far. Right now I am split between Otto, Emile, and Andrew. (mainly Otto and Emile but I'm still deciding). If you want me to put on a vote until I 100% decide I'd be happy too but until then my vote stays off.

[Otto Ulbreicht]

Ok, so I'm here, with more interesting news.

First though, I'll explain my actions.

I have been following the game with my regular account, but have not been able to commit otherwise due to RL. I have seen whyte get so close to lynch, then evad eit, get close then evade it. I thought he was scummy just like everyone else. Why keep someone around that you know that at one point was super scummy...it will just mess with you at lylo. The kicker also was I couldn't see there being more than one NK-immune PR, but once I saw he was telling the truth after the flip, I felt it was necessary to reveal who I was. You need me at least for a little while longer, if for the very least to help lower your scumpool until lylo. Then at lylo you can decide whether or not to lynch me.

But now onto the news. I believe I am the reason Gerhard died. I recieved a message saying that somebody tried to use psionic powers on me, only to fail. Either that or vig shot him down before he could be successful.

Emile was also mentioned in my message from the mod, but whether it was for flavour or if it was for the game I don't know.

As NK immune, I have no worries about sharing info.

Discuss.

[Leon Dreyfus]

I'd say Vig test on Otto. If we don't have a shot that night, semi-clear him. And if he's lying. Scum down.

[Andrew Lemarchand]

Emile's reaction to Stuart's vote is definitely not town knowing that Stuart was town. Vote: Emile Buchard

You had said that you were going to vote Otto today. What exactly about Emile's p.305 made you change your mind?

Other than Emile's post being very non-committal? I think his reasoning is pretty clear for his vote in the quote you provided.

Well, it wasn't perfectly clear to me so that's why I asked Spencer, not you, to explain it further.

[Tracey Morris]

Why keep someone around that you know that at one point was super scummy...it will just mess with you at lylo.

Funny, that's exactly how I feel about you right now and keeping you around.

You need me at least for a little while longer, if for the very least to help lower your scumpool until lylo. Then at lylo you can decide whether or not to lynch me.

Yeah, so at LYLO we have this debacle called an unnecessary role claim staring at us with no way to prove it either way, unless a vig does try and kill you. Deciding whether to lynch you is not something I want to be doing late game.

As NK immune, I have no worries about sharing info.

Or as scum claiming a virtually unprovable duplicated power role you don't have to worry about sharing info?

The kicker also was I couldn't see there being more than one NK-immune PR, but once I saw he was telling the truth after the flip, I felt it was necessary to reveal who I was.

So you can understand our concern now that you are claiming nearly the exact same power role? The biggest concern is you claim to be a Lieutenant, whereas the other NK immune PR was a Captain? It seems the higher ranking would have a better ability. Also, why was it necessary to reveal who you supposedly are? Why didn't you just say you thought he was scum just like everyone else did (which you did say in this post)?

But now onto the news. I believe I am the reason Gerhard died. I recieved a message saying that somebody tried to use psionic powers on me, only to fail. Either that or vig shot him down before he could be successful.

Does your "role" say anything about whoever targets you will get killed instead?

I don't oppose lynching Stuart, but from the look of it I'd say that he is the "easy" target. Meaning that scum are trying to push his lynch.

So what does that say about your half commit, non binding attitude to his lynch? You couldn't be more of a fence sitter. Your not getting in the way of his lynch is duly noted; as is your contradictory suspicion of anyone that is attacking him as an easy target.

IGMEOY: Leon Dreyfus

Yeah, I had plans to come back and post more after taking my shower. I'll do so in a bit.

Your post is dismissed.

Still waiting...

[Jaime Marcelle]

I have been following the game with my regular account, but have not been able to commit otherwise due to RL. I have seen whyte get so close to lynch, then evad eit, get close then evade it. I thought he was scummy just like everyone else. Why keep someone around that you know that at one point was super scummy...it will just mess with you at lylo. The kicker also was I couldn't see there being more than one NK-immune PR, but once I saw he was telling the truth after the flip, I felt it was necessary to reveal who I was. You need me at least for a little while longer, if for the very least to help lower your scumpool until lylo. Then at lylo you can decide whether or not to lynch me.

You do remember that whoever was voted the most for the longest gets autolynched at the end of the day if no person was chosen right? Well unless we all decided to change who we wanted to lynch (and at that point it would be a very scummy person) Stuart would still be the lynch.

But now onto the news. I believe I am the reason Gerhard died. I recieved a message saying that somebody tried to use psionic powers on me, only to fail. Either that or vig shot him down before he could be successful.

Emile was also mentioned in my message from the mod, but whether it was for flavour or if it was for the game I don't know.

As NK immune, I have no worries about sharing info.

Something about this just seems out of place to me... So right now you are possibly claiming a NK immune that kills whoever tries to kill you? Look at your role PM and tell us if it says that because I doubt you have that power if it doesn't show up in your PM. Also, what did it say about Emile?

Also Leon, how long is your shower? You've been in there for a day.

[Leon Dreyfus]

I've really gotta stop posting from my phone!!!!! T-T

Anyways, what I meant was that it was too unanimous for him to be scum. To me it was pretty obvious that there was no bussing going on. Normally they stall out, until they've seen other potential targets. I didn't see that. So it was little things like that made me think he was the "easy" target.

Otto's claim is sticking by what he said, Jaime. I think you're interpreting it wrong.

[Otto Ulbreicht]

Upon further reading, I don't think I'm the reason scum is dead, cause the PM says while I have the ability to fight it, the attack stopped before I could do anything. I therefore conclude that there is a vig or SK that got lucky and killed him for us. I would like you guys to explain otherwsie why we have no night kill. It fits as far as I'm concerned.

[Andrew Lemarchand]

@Otto - What did it say about Emile? And if it said that the attack was stopped before you could even do anything, how could you believe (and tell us) that you were the reason that Gerhard died?

[Otto Ulbreicht]

I tried to probe emile's mind. In doing so I was attacked by a psionic force. I had the skills to defend myself, but apparantly didn't need to worry, cause the attack failed, and the force was gone before I even had to deal with it. I then forgot about finishing my probe on Emile and went to bed.

I also used the words: I

believe

I

may

have been the cause of his death, I wasn't certain. It may be in his role PM that if he failed to kill on any given night he dies, I dunno. I'm going to assume that I'm not though.