890: Cults of Darkness and Shadow - Game over!

[Seacore]

Also, with the exclussion of Data and Mipe, who are unlikely fans of their own lynching, it seems that only DeathSauce and Semioldguy are against the double lynch.

DeathSauce and Semi - Will you, with your noted objections, allow us to proceed with the majority plan?

Anybody else object?
So far I've got:
Seacore
Faraday
SerialClergyman (although he seems less than 100% on it by later posts)
SnowBunny
Starttransmission (although it seems to be a lack of objection, rather than a vote for)
Chaco

We haven't heard anything from Discode for a while.

Anybody want to change their minds? Because otherwise it looks like we have a clear majority wanting the double lynch.
Magua

[Seacore]

EBWOP
Magua should obviously be in the pro-doublelynch list, but I was editing while on the phone. He should be inbetween Start and Chaco

The list is in order of people who signed on to the data/mipe lynch, for auditing purposes.

[Faraday]

Exams atm. Have a break after tomorrow to get something up hopefully.

Mod can you prod data

(think it's been a while)I still want a scum list before anything happens but a double lynch still seems like a v good idea to me.

[Magua]

I am 100% set for a mipe lynch.

I am set for a Datadanne lynch, unless there's a lot of content forthcoming, which is something I don't really expect unless she's replaced.

[Seacore]

Oh absolutely, as data's is/would be a policy lynch, if another player replaced in, I'd wait for them to post their opinions and move for a solo mipe lynch (on the assumption that other scum didn't do anything stupidly obvious in the meantime)

[semioldguy]

I am against policy lynching. Policy lynches don't help the town. I will do what I can to keep them from happening (in this and any other game). Lynch someone because you think they are scummy, not because you don't like the way they play or because you don't think you can get a read from their play style.

[Magua]

lynching antitown players helps the town, even if those players are not scum.

Datadanne is an antitown player. I shall quote the entirety of all posts to date:

/Nevah gonna give you up!
Nevah gonna let you down!

(Lol, Look in the "Link" of the darkness pm.)

Hey, Percy got married, Congrats!

I was quickly looking through the roles, And thought (Hey, Why does the mafia pm have a link?)

Also, Remember to not Incant/Vote so quickly, As there is no unvoting Sad

Goddamn it. Razz

Incant mipe

Whats with voting the mod?

Quote:
Unincant Seacore


Are you retarded, Or just stupid?

Willpostmoarl8er.

Fin.

[Snow_Bunny]

I am against policy lynching. Policy lynches don't help the town. I will do what I can to keep them from happening (in this and any other game). Lynch someone because you think they are scummy, not because you don't like the way they play or because you don't think you can get a read from their play style.

Policy lynching =/= antitown lynching. One thing is saying "let's lynch player X because he is always antitown!" and another is saying "player Y is not helping town at all in this game. Let's lynch him."

Then, semi, what do you suggest we do with Data then? Force replacement?

[semioldguy]

Let him play. He has to post something. If he doesn't than he will be auto-replaced. As he posts more it will give us more to gets reads from. Just because he plays in an anti-town manner doesn't mean we can't get scum or town reads off of him.

Policy lynches take nothing into account regarding possible role of the player, just the personality of the player regardless of his role. It doesn't make the player lynched any more or less likely to be scum. It discourages actual scum hunting. Policy lynching is also role-fishing.

If you have a case for why he is scummy, that's fine. Otherwise, voting him itself as a policy lynch is just as anti-town as he is.

[Snow_Bunny]

It seems we are not understanding each other. I don't want to policy lynch. I want to get rid from a liability to town. Do you really think he will be help to the town in the future? If so, why?

He can keep posting "willpostmoarl8er" all the game for all we know! And there's no rule against that.

I'm puzzled. Why do you want a liability to town to live so hard? We are not even wasting today's lynch! So, why?

[semioldguy]

Don't lynch someone on an assumption of what they might do. If all he posts is that he will post more later, then you can see that as scummy. He hasn't done that yet. He posted it once. For all you know he might post a lot of good content later (or at least some).

The argument of it not wasting our lynch is a bad one. It IS wasting a lynch. An extra lynch we do now is one we don't have later in the game.

[Magua]

Alright then, how's this?

Datadanne should be lynched for:

1) Easy bandwagon hopping (mipe) with no reason, no thought, no discussion.

2) Lurking. "Willpostmoarl8er" was six days ago.

3) Ignores questions from the town to expand upon reasons for doing things.

These are all scummy actions, aren't they?

What would Datadanne have to do to get you to vote for her?

[semioldguy]

1) Mostly agree that this can be seen as scummy.

2) Disagree about Lurking being scummy. Is not active elsewhere on site (though also not in other games).

3) Partially agree. Due to not being in thread it seems odd to both hold lurking and this against him since he hasn't been here to answer most of the questions. He has ignored some though, but this case can be made against other players too, why single out Datadanne for this?

Datadanne would either have to outright and seriously claim scum (or some role more ridiculous than mipe's). Other than that, what it would take for me to vote Datadanne is at least another day. I am voting mipe today, will be looking at Chaco tomorrow.

[Seacore]

@Semi - Fair enough. I understand your reasons and thought process and find you to be fairly town. I just disagree with you, I think that removing Data gives more power to remaining active town, makes scum stand out more, and gives us the small chance of lynching two scum in one go.

So my question is this, you've stated your objection, and that is good, and I am completely for you continuing to argue your point of view. But will you actively disrupt a double lynch?
If we leave you and deathsauce as 2 of the four members of the mipe lynch, and we have four others on the data lynch, what would you do to stop it, if anything?

[DeathSauce]

Once again, semioldguy has distilled my thoughts.

Policy lynches are not only bad, they are scummy. It gives scum an easy out to say "Oh so-and-so is not contributing, let's lynch them."

Prodding/Replacement is by far the preferred option.

Incant:Snow_Bunny

If you still want a double lynch, I'll go for Mipe and SB.

[Seacore]

Personally I'd love Data to get replaced. Then I'd drop the "policy" (there seems to be a slight semantic argument about this word going on) lynch and just go with mipe. But I don't think that'll happen. A glance at data's other games suggests that this is his MO.
I ask the question of you too DeathSauce.

On the assumption that the clean majority of us want a data/mipe doublelynch. Will you merely continue to voice your objection (which is cool) or will you actively strike against it?

[startransmission]

I don't like startransmission's 228. Why are you in a hurry to lynch someone? This gave me a bad vibe.

As has been pointed out, I'm not necessarily in a big rush to lynch anybody- but I think the overwhelming consensus is that mipe is scum. So why are we waiting for a lynch? What purpose does that serve?

As I said earlier, I have no objection to a double lynch, and DD what little DD has provided has anti town to say the least. I would still prefer a replacement. What I do object to is sitting on our hands and refusing to lynch anybody unless we can lynch multiple people. I fear that if we wait too long we'll be lynching more people with fewer reasons/discussion or time. The DD/mipe combo lynch has dominated conversation lately, and that's only good for scum. Let's be done with mipe... we can move onto who's likely to be scum after that, and DD will still be there as a potential policy lynch to go with the next person who we all agree is likely scum.

[Seacore]

Lets imagine that we have only 2 options from this point.

1) We lynch mipe right now.

2) We resolve (democratically) to organise a situation in which mipe and data are both lynched.

In the case of 1) the conversation is over, we get information and night begins

In the case of 2) the conversation continues as we await the deadline, we get more information from the lynch (albeit at a higher cost) and night begins.

Your argument that the conversation is being dominated by this topic is moot, since you're arguing for the conversation to completely stop.

We gain nothing by lynching Mipe now that we do not gain by lynching mipe a week or two from now (with or without data). I can't see anybody putting an argument forward that allows Mipe to survive.

[semioldguy]

(1) If I or someone else is actively planning or intending to disrupt a coordinated double lynch, it isn't likely they are going to just come forward and tell you and thus allow you to additionally plan for that. That would undermine their own purpose of intending to disrupt the lynch.

(2) How do you plan to account for the possibility of mipe and/or Datadanne trying to mess up you plans? Why would you count on their cooperation? Either of them can just move their vote off the other and come by and hammer when the time comes for them to do so, saving themselves. There is nothing you can do to ensure this doesn't happen unless they are both already voting each other and don't take it off.

(3) Even if you know I am not planning to disrupt the double lynch, it can go wrong in enough other ways that it really isn't a good idea to try coordinating. Lynching mipe without an attempt at a double lynch gives us a sure thing for lynching mipe.

This is more of why I don't want double lynches to be coordinated. It can't be ensured. If they happen naturally, okay, fine. But planning it is not good.

starttransmission is entirely correct that we should just lynch mipe now.

[Seacore]

1) I'm trying to establish whether you are willing to go with what the majority have said (which is pro-town, even if you disagree with it) or whether you are planning to loudly say "if I can stop it, I will". If you say that you're going to do the first thing and then do the second, then it's a very scummy act. If ANYBODY disrupts the double lynch once it's put into place, that is very scummy.

2) We can't ensure this

3) It is in the "WHERE" things go wrong that we obtain or information. Who moved last minute to save one of the two lynch targets? Thats heaps of information right there.

Basically yes, if we move for this double lynch, there's a chance that they hammer the other one. And if they do that, we kill that person the next day, because they are totally scum, even if the other one flipped scum. If either of them are town, they should just accept their fate, because a double lynch provides us with more information and thus makes it more likely that they (as town, dead or not) will win.
If they don't, then we know they are scum.

@Mipe - Will you be willing to move your vote to data right now, because as you've seen, you're dead. Either alone, with data, or on day 2 if you screw up a double lynch, you're dead.

[Percy]

Incantation Count

mipe - 6 (Magua, Snow_Bunny, SerialClergyman, Datadanne, semioldguy, startransmission)

Seacore - 2 (DisCode, mipe)
Datadanne - 2 (Seacore, Chaco)
Snow_Bunny - 1 (DeathSauce)
Chaco - 1 (Faraday)

The Ritual will take only 8 Incantations to complete at 6:00pm Tuesday the 8th of December (site time).

Prodding

: Datadanne. He has until the next deadline to post or he will be force-replaced.

9 Incantations are currently required to complete the Ritual.

[Seacore]

Prodding: Datadanne. He has until the next deadline to post or he will be force-replaced.

Mod: Sorry, to clarify your use of 'next'. Does this mean, later today (what's site time again?) or does this mean the deadline after that?

[semioldguy]

So regarding number two. If you can't ensure it, then why are you trying to coordinate a double lynch?

Everyone trying to coordinate this double lynch is allowing mipe an out for the day.

That is scummy.

Furthermore, it doesn't make the other person totally scum if they save themselves. If they are town why should they just let themselves be lynched? I disagree that a townie should just accept that fate.

Even by your own reasoning that a townie should go along with this (which I disagree with)... if you think they should let themselves be lynched than the only way we pull off a coordinated double lynch in your eyes is if we are lynching two townies.

This double lynch coordination looks very scummy to me.

[DeathSauce]

1) I'm trying to establish whether you are willing to go with what the majority have said (which is pro-town, even if you disagree with it).

False assumption. There are only 12 players in this game, and it is entirely possible that the combined scum cults are the majority. Going along with the majority could in fact be pro-scum

[Seacore]

No, I'm saying mipe should just accept his fate. Data's already voting for mipe, so any movement by him burns himself, not mipe. And seriously, mipe should just accept has fate, he's already said he's immune to night actions, so nothing can save him.