Open 184: Friends and Enemies Mafia (Over)


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:27 am

Post by farside22 »

CSL wrote:Wow, this is one heated debate. If Hewitt flips town, ABR will look stupid, If I'm correct.

Hewitt and ABR, keep arguing. It's fun watching you two have at it.
What have you done this game exactly but follow BW's and then critisize someone for not contributing. Talk about hypocritical. I disagree with ABR. I don't see it as a good case and the following with no reasoning in this game is really dumb.

unvote
vote: CSL
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:30 am

Post by DarkLightA »

hewitt wrote:If I'm right about ABR being scum then this is most definitely a prime example of chainsaw defense and I'm at least 2/3, for sure, correct in my scum list.
Go back and check the definition of chainsaw defense.

Regards,
"DLA"
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:48 am

Post by hewitt »

Jesus I feel like I'm playing with freshmen here.

Chainsaw Defense (Tarhalindur Version)
The general form of this tell is "a player who defends another player by attacking the other player's attacker is very probably scum".
The key to identifying this tell is intent - it is possible to confuse Chainsaw Defense with a player who simply finds the attacker scummy and has no intent of defense. In general, you can be reasonably sure that this tell is involved if a) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense has not previously been especially critical of the player he is now attacking, and b) the player supposedly using Chainsaw Defense seems to find the player he is supposedly defending at least reasonably pro-town.
The extreme form of this tell is Mutual Chainsaw Defense, where two players defend each other by attacking each others' attackers. This is a major scumtell, and Tarhalindur would be willing to lynch/vig both players with only this tell as justification.
The Chainsaw Defense is named after the mental image of a player ripping apart another player with a chainsaw for daring to attack his ally. It should not be confused with the Cochrane Defense, which can also be referred to as the Chainsaw Defense (the Wiki refers to the Cochrane Defense this way), which is a gambit made by players investigated as scum. The Chainsaw Defense can also be referred to as the Bodyguard Defense in order to prevent confusion.
UPDATE: After further analysis, Tarhalindur has determined that the Chainsaw Defense is only trustworthy once the player defended has been revealed to be group scum (once the player defended is proved to be Mafia, any player that used Chainsaw Defense on the dead scum should be scrutinized). Otherwise, it is a null tell. Mutual Chainsaw Defense may, however, still be an outright scumtell; more research is required here.
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RECORD

Town-Win- 2
Town-NightKilled-Loss- 3
Town-Loss- 4
Mafia-Win- 1
Mafia-Loss- 3

Team Win Percentage- 23.08%
Basically...my teams usually lose. How fun is that!
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:54 am

Post by CSL »

...
Unvote


You both are scumtells, and nulltells...Gah, I can't decide.

You know what, hewitt's play smells slightly like AtE...

I don't know what to think of ABR.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:02 am

Post by hewitt »

CSL wrote:You know what, hewitt's play smells slightly like AtE...
It's really just that I'm, quite frankly, annoyed to be playing with some of these players. I mean come on, DLA doesn't even know the definition of chainsaw defense, neither DLA or ABR have taken the proper time to actually outline a competent case, it's annoying.
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RECORD

Town-Win- 2
Town-NightKilled-Loss- 3
Town-Loss- 4
Mafia-Win- 1
Mafia-Loss- 3

Team Win Percentage- 23.08%
Basically...my teams usually lose. How fun is that!
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:07 am

Post by Lab Mafia »

Someone please post a vote count I wull be back tuesday
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:11 am

Post by CSL »

Yeah...

Unofficial votecount incoming...
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:24 am

Post by CSL »

Again, this is unofficial...

2 - CSL - (Netopalis, farside22)
3
- hewitt - (Albert B. Rampage, DarkLightA, Shotty to the Body)
1 - Yarmond - (kikuchiyo)
2 - Albert B. Rampage - (hewitt, saberwolf)
Ellibereth -
Shotty to the Body -
Netopalis -
kikuchiyo -
Konowa -
DarkLightA -
farside22 -
2 - Saberwolf - (Ellibereth, Konowa)

Not voting: CSL, Yarmond
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:08 am

Post by DarkLightA »

hewitt wrote:Jesus I feel like I'm playing with freshmen here.
Same here. Basically it's attacking a player who attacks your team mate. I happen to be against you, and so is ABR. I don't see the chainsaw in this.
DLA wrote:Go back and check the definition of chainsaw defense.
Does this sound like I don't know what I'm talking about?


Mod, can you devote more time to the game please? I feel that it's dying because of the lack of vote counts.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:28 am

Post by hewitt »

DarkLightA wrote:Same here. Basically it's attacking a player who attacks your team mate. I happen to be against you, and so is ABR. I don't see the chainsaw in this.
Can you read? Like, honestly, CAN...YOU...READ?
hewitt wrote:
If I'm right about ABR being scum
then this is most definitely a prime example of chainsaw defense and I'm at least 2/3, for sure, correct in my scum list.
Maybe I can simplify and bold this for you.

IF I'M RIGHT ABOUT ABR BEING SCUM THEN YOU ARE MOST LIKELY CHAINSAWING DEFENDING HIM.

This statement, is based off speculation. Which is all any of us have in this game. Unless you are scum, which again, I'm guessing I'm most likely right about, you don't know ABR's alignment. So that whole statement that you just made is ridiculous.

Players like you, who make dumbass statements like I happen to be against you and so is ABR are really prime examples of awful, awful Mafia players. And if you're town, which once again, I'm guessing is not likely, you are going to look like a dumb fuck after this game is over.

God this almost makes me wish I was playing with zwetschenwasser and Empking.
Show
RECORD

Town-Win- 2
Town-NightKilled-Loss- 3
Town-Loss- 4
Mafia-Win- 1
Mafia-Loss- 3

Team Win Percentage- 23.08%
Basically...my teams usually lose. How fun is that!
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:39 am

Post by DarkLightA »

According to what I see it's silly to say that you're attacking ABR.. I dunno.. Might just be the culture difference XD
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:40 am

Post by Ellibereth »

Some shit happened to my computer. Sorry. >.<
Reading through.
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:43 am

Post by hewitt »

DarkLightA wrote:According to what I see it's silly to say that you're attacking ABR.. I dunno.. Might just be the culture difference XD
And now you're spouting gibberish again great.
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RECORD

Town-Win- 2
Town-NightKilled-Loss- 3
Town-Loss- 4
Mafia-Win- 1
Mafia-Loss- 3

Team Win Percentage- 23.08%
Basically...my teams usually lose. How fun is that!
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:43 am

Post by Shotty to the Body »

Can I hear from the other players that exist in this game? Neto, Ell, Yarmond, Kik, Konowa, we could use your thoughts.
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:03 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Alright first I want to make one thing clear. Don't vote for people "for not contributing". It's a void argument. A vote
is
a contribution.

FOS Farside


And now, this is why hewitt is scum:
hewitt wrote:I agree with farside and I'm going to take the Masons day by day. Right now the stats really mean nothing to me.
Buddying up with farside, buttering her up.
hewitt wrote:
DarkLightA wrote:It would seem like the last sentence could be used to dampen the serverity of the vote.

Unvote
Vote: Farside


Not OMGUS:

First you supported me, then suddenly about 2-3 people go against me, and you find a chance to change before everyone goes against you for the support you gave (posts a few posts back show suspicion coming onto you because of this). So you find a chance to vote me first, making it seem like you'd be the starter of it,without really being so. This seems REALLY scummy to me. Don't know about you guys.
This is like the fakest vote I've ever seen on this site.
Chainsaw defense of farside.
hewitt wrote:
saberwolf wrote:Konowa has a unique meta when it comes to me.

Konowa as town has always voted for me and finds some excuse to vote for me in the RVS.

He also likes to vote without real reason, one of his town tells. If he was scum, he'd have built up a better case before he attacked me.
Konowa's naturally an easy target for scum from my own experiences playing with him.
hewitt wrote:We all know meta's usually a crapshoot anyways
Contradiction. He says that Konowa's meta is that he's an easy target, and then he says that meta is useless. So why did he talk about his experience of Konowa's play? It doesn't make any sense,
unless
he doesn't give a shit whether meta is useful or not and is just selectively using different elements of mafia when they
suit
him. There are many examples of this.
hewitt wrote:If I'm right about ABR being scum then this is most definitely a prime example of chainsaw defense
You did one yourself of farside, cited earlier. Now I don't know if a chainsaw defense is scummy or not, but when you arbitrarily apply mafia concepts to one player and not yourself when you are both doing the same thing, that is
extremely scummy
. Even without a vote -you said you don't like to vote in the beginning-, you are clearly attacking DLA for attacking farside. Chainsaw defense.

Then there's my original overcompensating argument. Many a post you make is an attempt at courting the town's favor
in full conscience
of the act.

-A huge emphasis on "creating discussion", instead of just discussing
Albert B. Rampage wrote:-The hewitt creature tries too hard to look pro-town by repeating ad nauseum that it wants "discussion".
hewitt wrote:Really because my history of not voting shows that it helps spark conversation and gauge reactions of other players very well. Basically you're saying players who don't random vote are scummy, and that's just silly.
hewitt wrote:Anything, I really don't care honestly as long as it starts discussion SOMEHOW.
hewitt wrote:Basically right now this game sucks and is absolutely going nowhere and I honestly don't even know what else to comment on. Which is...you know...always great...
hewitt wrote:Ugh yeah I know. I was hoping someone would vehemently disagree so we can start conversation somehow but apparently that didn't work.
-Trying to take credit for pro-town things rather than look for scumtells:
hewitt wrote:
farside22 wrote:What is saber attack on Hewit laughable? Don't you think it's better to have some discusion to get us off the RVS stage?
For the record though that would be me who got us out of the RVS stage not saber.
-Not wanting to look like he's tunneling:
Shotty to the Body wrote:There's another thing. You said you didn't want to appear as though you were tunneling. The way you present your case is more focused on not being called scummy then actually catching someone, that's what bothers me about it the most.
Now that's not all. Hewitt argues that Yarmond isn't a bad lynch, but that he will probably flip town:
Albert B. Rampage wrote:
hewitt wrote:I'm really not all that opposed to a Yarmond lynch considering we've got nothing else going on for us. Lurker lynches just always kind of bother me because we are probably going to hit town and that's just never really a good thing obviously.
hewitt wrote:I just said I'm fine with a Yarmond lynch but at the same time there's that nagging in the back of my head like damn...we're probably not going to hit scum here. And of course that would bother me.
This is the biggest example of overcompensating to me. These two posts
scream
"I want to look town".
He's not opposed to the lynch
, but hewitt warns us that Yarmond will probably flip town. This is exactly what scum would do.

Now soon after, he posts his case against me:
hewitt wrote:I think the best idea for today would be to lynch a player who is here yet hasn't shown any signs of being willing to contribute anything to the game.

Vote: Albert B. Rampage


He's done absolutely nothing so far this game but ask pointless questions to other players and has not provided any original thoughts to the game. He doesn't even respond to the answers of the pointless questions that he's asking. Reading all the players in ISO I think it's pretty clear that ABR has been and most likely will be the most useless player in this game.

If the vote's on Yarmond as a policy lynch for not contributing anything then I'm going to vote for the even worse offender, the player who's here and posting and still not contributing.
Lack of contribution. Got it.

I reply with a case of my own. I have crystal clear reasons for voting him (post 203), but he says that I'm voting him because I think he sucks (OMGUS).

But whereas his case on me consists of "OMGUS", which is actually not, lack of contribution, which actually exists only in his mind), and asking a hypothetical question, which he can't accuse me without condemning himself because he's used hypothetical situations too (eg: post 236).

However, the extent of his scumminess extends far beyond that:
hewitt wrote:I know you're delighted that your OMGUS case has garnered so many bandwagon votes. If I'm lynched scum will definitely win because I've never seen a town stupid enough to follow such a blatantly awful player like yourself.
"If I'm lynched scum will win". Straight from the standard scum playbook.
hewitt wrote:Wrong again and a gross misrepresentation of my case and actions. I don't give a shit about "appearing" pro-town or any of that bullcrap.
And this is just a flat-out lie. At this point hewitt is getting fairly agitated anyway, and just flailing about proclaiming that the town can't win, etc.

---

In conclusion, hewitt has been acting extremely scummy, more than anyone else in the game so far, and there's more than enough evidence to lynch him where he stands.
Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the bastards.
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:10 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Hewitt (4) : DarkLightA, Albert B. Rampage, Shotty to the body, saberwolf

CSL wrote:...
Unvote


You both are scumtells, and nulltells...Gah, I can't decide.

You know what, hewitt's play smells slightly like AtE...

I don't know what to think of ABR.
Why did you unvote? Please vote hewitt again.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:13 am

Post by hewitt »

Really ABR? Another weak, pathetic argument that has been inflated to look as if it's actually something significant? Filled with misrepresentations, incorrect usages of game terminology, and weak arguments to compensate for a case originated on an OMGUS. This has got to be a joke.
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RECORD

Town-Win- 2
Town-NightKilled-Loss- 3
Town-Loss- 4
Mafia-Win- 1
Mafia-Loss- 3

Team Win Percentage- 23.08%
Basically...my teams usually lose. How fun is that!
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:15 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

You're OMGUSing
me
. You didn't attack me because you thought I was scum, you attacked me for being one of the many players who "weren't contributing" in your opinion. I voted you because I thought you were scum. And then you OMGUSed me.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:21 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

You're presenting the classic Narcissistic Scum behavior-pattern:

"I may be scum, but I played a perfect game, and your reasons for voting me are crap! You're all awful players, voting me for all the wrong reasons!"
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:23 am

Post by Albert B. Rampage »

Farside, I asked you a DIRECT question.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:Ellibereth, Netopalis, kikuchiyo, farside22. If you had to lynch one of me or hewitt right this instant, who would it be?
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:31 am

Post by hewitt »

Albert B. Rampage wrote:You're OMGUSing
me
. You didn't attack me because you thought I was scum, you attacked me for being one of the many players who "weren't contributing" in your opinion. I voted you because I thought you were scum. And then you OMGUSed me.
Don't be fucking stupid.
Albert B. Rampage wrote:"I may be scum, but I played a perfect game, and your reasons for voting me are crap! You're all awful players, voting me for all the wrong reasons!"
Actually no not all the players in this game are awful at all. Right now, it's pretty much just yourself and DLA.
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RECORD

Town-Win- 2
Town-NightKilled-Loss- 3
Town-Loss- 4
Mafia-Win- 1
Mafia-Loss- 3

Team Win Percentage- 23.08%
Basically...my teams usually lose. How fun is that!
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 8:41 am

Post by Shotty to the Body »

You know it is possible to have civil arguments, I know the mod isn't around but can we cut down the ad hominem and get down to the facts?
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:42 am

Post by DarkLightA »

Shotty to the Body wrote:Can I hear from the other players that exist in this game? Neto, Ell, Yarmond, Kik, Konowa, we could use your thoughts.
Note to self taken.
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:47 am

Post by CSL »

Hmmm...

Vote: Hewitt


I'm getting tired of these arguments. There is nothing that seperates me from a hewitt lynch.
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:49 am

Post by DarkLightA »

Okay, after a short re-read I find that we now have two more people slightly here, and that one of them came into my little special FoS spot. Welcome. I'm sure you'll enjoy your stay.

UnFoS: Saber
FoS (especially if Hewitt flips scum): Shotty, due to 263, which I interpret as you asking for other people to give their opinion without being willing to say anything yourself. If Hewitt flips scum, I'll find this very suspicious, as it would make sense that you wouldn't want to comment on your scumbuddy.

Regards,
"DLA"

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