Mafia 103 - Ktown Mafia (Game Over)

[Wickedestjr]

EBWOP: That quote was said by cruelty himself. The one that said this:

I started the Haylen wagon, and my final post before the deadline was confirmation that I was happy with it.

In the quote in my previous post, he said he didn't necessarily want Haylen lynched, yet here he seems to be taking credit for starting it, even though when he first voted her he didn't want her lynched.

[Wickedestjr]

Furry, I think I see what you are saying. One more question: Let's say that I vote for somebody that hasn't done anything scummy nor townie, and I do it mainly to pressure vote them. Does that mean I want them lynched?

I dunno, I wouldnt be pressure voting a neutral/no read.

Let's look at the contradiction one more time. Hopefully this time you'll understand why I was voting you:

I think voting for someone means you want them lynched.

Then again im not really into the 'hip and trendy' lifestyles that are going on now adays. Does 'dont necessarily want' mean 'would like to have' in today groovy slang?

and then you said:

Need to get caught up, but this is a fail of a HoS. Pressure votes work wonders. People play differently under pressure

Keep in mind that your second quote was in response to me giving CrueKnight an HoS. Remember why I gave CrueKnight the HoS? One of the reasons was because CrueKnight had said:

I'm just voting for pressure. I do not have any intentions to lynch you.

You seemed to have a problem with me attacking this. However, you also disagree with it. So...thanks for claiming scum.

[Wickedestjr]

1: You think I am town but FoS'd me earlier? Weird thing to say. 2: Also he didn't have a case really, he just made a lot of vague "leave it up to the imagination" stuff and the only thing he said that was not vague was the thing that I only voted you because you attacked me, which literally can't be true.

1: Actually it was something you said after I FoSed you along with this post that have given me a town read.

2: The points I agreed with were that I didn't think your posts were good.

[cades]

was Vigilante a townie?

[Rhinox]

Alright, I'm back and all caught up. First off,

unvote furry

. Still don't agree with defending other players even if you think they're town, but I don't think this makes furry scum. I guess this means we'll be putting up with the fuzzy handcuffs a little longer...

vote: malpascp

Out of all the people who voted Haylen, malps vote looks the worst in iso. I think there is for sure at least one scum who was on the haylen wagon and I think malp might be one. Reading him in iso, almost every time he posts, he is changing his vote. His votes don't have strong reasoning, and the votes are never followed up on. It is clear this is a player entirely uninterested in scum hunting, but wanting to look like he is participating.

cruelty, could your suspicion of malpascp be summarized as not contributing much?

Rhinox, what do you think of cruelty?

Why do you ask? I don't see anything I'd consider scummy at the moment, and I think he's been making some good points.

[Kdub]

SolemnJ and malpascp have been prodded. I am still in the process of looking for a replacement for Torqez.

Vote Count

CrueKnight (1)

- Torqez

Furry (0)

-

cruelty (1)

- Wickedestjr

Sir Chris (1)

- malpascp

Rhinox (0)

-

Wickedestjr (2)

- Sir Chris, cruelty

malpascp (1)

- Rhinox

Faraday (0)

-

SolemnJ (1)

- Furry

Torqez (1)

- Faraday

foilist13 (0)

-

cades (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (4)

- cades, CrueKnight, SolemnJ, foilist13

12 players alive, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is December 19, ~11:00 am MST

[cruelty]

rofl wicked. all post numbers in my iso.

For the record I don't necessarily want a Haylen lynch, I want less Haylen spam and more Haylen content.

I don't have a read due to lack of content, hence the vote.

And I said I don't necessarily want her lynched - if she suddenly came alive and was pro-town, scumhunting all over the place then I'd have no issue with her. I don't think this is going to miraculously happen though, so in that case then I'm happy to see her strung up. All I'm trying to do is push her into getting into the game. I'm not going to let her coast by on a path of smilies and facepalms.

My vote is where it is, I'm not sure what you want from me? The second-most scummy player on my list? I aint gonna delve into that. I'm not ruling out the possibility that she's town, but I'm happy enough with my vote given 4 things (snipped)

Does this, or does this not look like I was becoming more and more convinced of her guilt? Taking my quotes (specifically, the first one) out of context in an attempt to make them look bad is horribly, horribly scummy. Funny, though.

Why would you vote him for not contributing after we lynched a townie for that same reason?

Read him in iso. Tell me he isn't active lurking.

2: I'm not saying it is or isn't. I'm saying its not anti-town.

So scum is ALWAYS anti-town? Or would you concede that occasionally their survival becomes more important than bringing down town?

I have already explained this. You don't have to reiterate the point over and over again. I understand why you are attacking me.

Are you?

Also, why the heck would I want to get town credit from Scott Brosius and Torqez? You obviously didn't think this case through. If I am scum, then I just killed one of the two, leaving Torqez who has been the most quiet person in the game. Also, like I said, bandwagoning doesn't give you town credit.

Well, I presume there's more than one scum so it's conceivable that your partner(s) wanted him killed and you went along with it. This is a WIFOM deflection at best.

I didn't say bandwagoning gives you town credit. You were on a wagon that

wasn't a mislynch

. You specifically stated you wanted to be on a wagon despite not really liking CK as a lynch that much. There's absolutely no reason for town to do that.

Why would I want to critisize the people who were bandwagoning on somebody that I had previously been voting?

Seriously?

Let me lay this out for you because you apparently have no conception of what I'm saying.

actually I'm going to start a new post for this.

[cruelty]

When should we expect some content? Also, she has said that she has read the thread, so why hasn't she posted any content? Also, I find it hard to believe that she can't make any time for this game. Why did she even join so many games? VistaSoldier still remains a big suspect of mine, but I would like Haylen to come out and do something and explain the inconsistincies.

Unvote Vote: Haylen

Then your 34 was a bunch of quotes and replies, mostly directed at Haylen. And this:

@DeathNote - The case against Haylen isn't just non contribution.

People I'd Be Willing to Lynch:

Wickedestjr - He is incredibly scummy. I just don't know if others feel the same way.
Furry - SolemnJ's case combined with gut both make be suspicious of Furry.
VistaSoldier - See my reasons for voting him earlier.
Katniss - I don't like his wishy-washiness. Also, there is something else I noticed, but his most recent post in response to me didn't give me enough evidence regarding it. I'm waiting for his next good post.


People That May be Good Lynch Choices:

CrueKnight - My earlier case.
Haylen - See my last few posts in response to Haylen.

Still voting Haylen at this point, no problems yet. Post 36 is entirely directed at CK.

Also, I forgot to Unvote Vote: VistaSoldier. I still find him more suspicious than Furry or Katniss.

Right so this is contradictory - you specifically stated that you had two players who you thought would be better lynches (CK and Haylen, as per the above quote). Why didn't you even mention them?

Also, Haylen posted no content at all between your vote for her and this post, her only post was about her real life dramas and a little bit of moaning that the two of us were attacking her. You didn't get an answer to your questions, so I'm not sure why you unvoted. Moving on.

Unvote Vote: CrueKnight

He looks to be the biggest bandwagon that I actually prefer, and we only have three days. I'm going to start catching up now.
(snip)

I am going to keep my vote on CrueKnight, but I would prefer to lynch foilist, Furry, or Katniss.

Let's examine what just happened and lay it out nicely in chronological order.

1: Wicked votes for Haylen.
2: Wicked notes that the case against Haylen isn't just non-contribution, and states that Haylen is one of two good lynches, the other being CK.
3: Wicked suddenly and without warning votes for Vista, no mention of either Haylen or CK.
4: Wicked gets in a battle with Rhinox (MrSquirrel's replacement) - I didn't quote this because the posts are lengthy. IMO he's squarely on the back foot. He actually specifically states "I'm going to move Rhinox/Mr. Squirrel to the "People That May be Good Lynch Choices" category." So I guess we now have Haylen, CK and Rhinox here?
5: Wicked votes CK. This would be in line with what he stated earlier (CK being a good lynch choice) if it wasn't followed later in the post by the statement that he'd prefer to lynch one of three (three!) other people.
6: Wicked flips out on Sir Chris and doesn't even mention the CK/Haylen wagons. Strange, methinks.
7: Day ends.

I'm not going to post my thoughts on this, it's pretty obvious from previous posts what I think, so I'll leave the analysis up to other people. There are some pretty glaring inconsistencies and downright strange changes of heart in there though.

Please read him in iso.

As for answering this:

Why would I want to critisize the people who were bandwagoning on somebody that I had previously been voting?

Scum would love to be in a position whereby they can attack townies who were on a wagon that resulted in a mislynch.

[Faraday]

sorry guys exams atm. I'll get here ASAP and give the thread a good read.

[Wickedestjr]

was Vigilante a townie?

What?

Why do you ask? I don't see anything I'd consider scummy at the moment, and I think he's been making some good points.

What did you think of posts 548-550? Also, I asked, because I was beginning to suspect him.

1: Does this, or does this not look like I was becoming more and more convinced of her guilt? Taking my quotes (specifically, the first one) out of context in an attempt to make them look bad is horribly, horribly scummy. 2: Funny, though.

1: It doesn't look like you were becoming more suspicious. All of those quotes say that you weren't sure, but were voting her so you could find out.

2: Why do you keep making comments like this? These attempts to just laugh away my case are very scummy.

Read him in iso. Tell me he isn't active lurking.

He is. That doesn't mean he's scum. Also, active lurking is the same thing as not contributing. ... So I don't see how this defends against my point.

BTW, Faraday and Rhinox also need to explain themselves.

1: So scum is ALWAYS anti-town? 2: Or would you concede that occasionally their survival becomes more important than bringing down town?

1: Where the heck did I say that? Stop twisting my words scum.

2: This has absolutely nothing to do with my survival. I wasn't even on the chopping block Day 1. Quit imagining.

Are you?

Yes, I understand why you are voting me if that is what you are asking.

1: Well, I presume there's more than one scum so it's conceivable that your partner(s) wanted him killed and you went along with it. This is a WIFOM deflection at best.

2: I didn't say bandwagoning gives you town credit. You were on a wagon that wasn't a mislynch. You specifically stated you wanted to be on a wagon despite not really liking CK as a lynch that much. There's absolutely no reason for town to do that.

1: First of all, nobody voted CK after I did. So I don't know what you meant by having my scumbuddies going along with it. Also, how could I have possibly planned this out? Odds are if I am scum, then some of my scumbuddies would have been on the Haylen lynch, so all these points look like grasping at straws now that I've completely destroyed your case.

2: So you are saying it would give me town credit for not being on the mislynch? If so, then this is also a bad point, because if anything, it would be better for me to go with what the majority went if I was really worrying about this.


Ooh. Somebody just claimed scum.

[Wickedestjr]

Right so this is contradictory - you specifically stated that you had two players who you thought would be better lynches (CK and Haylen, as per the above quote). Why didn't you even mention them?

Nope, Haylen and CK were below Furry, VistaSoldier, and Katniss on my scumlist.

Also, Haylen posted no content at all between your vote for her and this post, her only post was about her real life dramas and a little bit of moaning that the two of us were attacking her. You didn't get an answer to your questions, so I'm not sure why you unvoted. Moving on.

1. My initial vote was partly for pressure.

2. I was pretty sure that Haylen was getting enough attention, and wanted to switch back to my main suspect VistaSoldier.

Scum would love to be in a position whereby they can attack townies who were on a wagon that resulted in a mislynch.

This is another bad point.

[Rhinox]

What did you think of posts 548-550? Also, I asked, because I was beginning to suspect him.

I think there is some interesting stuff there, but its meh as far as a case goes.

Why would you vote him for not contributing after we lynched a townie for that same reason?

This is non-sequitor.

The stuff about cruelty saying he doesn't necessarily want a haylen lynch but voting to lynch her anyways is the most interesting part, but its weak. I think cruelty has done a god job of explaining it already. I interpretted his vote first as a pressure vote, which later turned into a desire to lynch after haylen failed to deliver.

BTW, Faraday and Rhinox also need to explain themselves.

What exactly is it that I need to explain?

1: So scum is ALWAYS anti-town? 2: Or would you concede that occasionally their survival becomes more important than bringing down town?

1: Where the heck did I say that? Stop twisting my words scum.

2: This has absolutely nothing to do with my survival. I wasn't even on the chopping block Day 1. Quit imagining.

umm... pretty obvious here that cruelty was talking about some annonomous hypo-scum... why do you answer in #2 as if you are the hypo scum he was talking about?



I think this whole back and forth between wicked and cruelty is distracting from what we should actually be doing right now: lynching malp.

[CrueKnight]

Back... sorry. I'm usually busy on weekends.

.... as was this weekend...

*Reading through last 2 pages*

[danakillsu]

How do I get into a new game?

[Sir Chris]

Honestly, wicked just looks worse and worse to me. Also the lack of activity is a bit annoying at this point.

I... don't really have a lot to comment on because not a lot has been said. I am getting the same vibe from cruelty as I got from the Inqusition (I just maimed that word, sorry.) which is to say a favorably strong read as town.

[foilist13]

@Danakillsu - Go post in the Queue forum under newbie game list.

I'm feeling like cruelty looks ok at this point. His defenses at least make logical sense, and I can see where he's coming from.

Wicked though is looking odd. It feels like you've decided Cruelty is scum and you are going to dig through all of his posts to find the smallest bits on info that could be construed to look like evidence, despite the refutation of any of your previous points. Does that make you scum? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm going to be reading you much more closely.

@Rhinox - If we assume there is at least one scum on the Haylen wagon, why are you limiting yourself to just Malp? He looks the scummiest to you obviously, but shouldn't you expand that to at least two or three suspects? Perhaps you should go through the wagon and decide who you think is town to narrow the list. I am interested in who you might come up with as the most likely scum candidates.

[cruelty]

Completely destroyed my case? What?

You're quoting me out of context and deliberately misinterpreting me. A lot. This isn't so much destroying as it is deflecting and misrepping. But that's fine.


Examples! I hear you cry.

1: Well, I presume there's more than one scum so it's conceivable that your partner(s) wanted him killed and you went along with it. This is a WIFOM deflection at best.

2: I didn't say bandwagoning gives you town credit. You were on a wagon that wasn't a mislynch. You specifically stated you wanted to be on a wagon despite not really liking CK as a lynch that much. There's absolutely no reason for town to do that.

1: First of all, nobody voted CK after I did. So I don't know what you meant by having my scumbuddies going along with it. Also, how could I have possibly planned this out? Odds are if I am scum, then some of my scumbuddies would have been on the Haylen lynch, so all these points look like grasping at straws now that I've completely destroyed your case.

2: So you are saying it would give me town credit for not being on the mislynch? If so, then this is also a bad point, because if anything, it would be better for me to go with what the majority went if I was really worrying about this.

Ok.

1: Let me lay this out. Hyposcum-wicked knows that the people on the CK wagon are town. Being on that wagon gives him cred with them (it does, people like when other people agree with them). Hyposcum-wicked's partner(s?) don't like something Scott said, and want him lynched. Hyposcum-wicked shrugs, knowing (well, believing) he can't be implicated. Scott dies, cruelty questions Hyposcum-wicked about being on the bandwagon, Hyposcum-wicked points out that Scott died and he therefore must be innocent. Cruelty notes that this isn't a viable defence, Hyposcum-wicked misreps cruelty.

2: WIFOM/misrep. You specifically stated that you wanted to be on a bandwagon, you also specifically stated that you weren't feeling the CK lynch, in the same post you joined his wagon. Why would town do this? There's literally no logical reason.

1: So scum is ALWAYS anti-town? 2: Or would you concede that occasionally their survival becomes more important than bringing down town?

1: Where the heck did I say that? Stop twisting my words scum.
2: This has absolutely nothing to do with my survival. I wasn't even on the chopping block Day 1. Quit imagining.

1: I didn't say you said that. This is again misrepresentation. I was asking if you would agree that occasionally (or even often?) scum will act in a null or pro-town manner in order to survive.

2: As Rhinox said, I was talking hypothetically. The point I was making was that scum doesn't necessarily always act anti-town; they'd be identified fairly quickly and easily. Interesting response, though.

Nope, Haylen and CK were below Furry, VistaSoldier, and Katniss on my scumlist.

I read "people that may be good lynch choices" as more important that "people I'd be willing to lynch". This is interesting though.

Scum would love to be in a position whereby they can attack townies who were on a wagon that resulted in a mislynch.

This is another bad point.

How so? It's maybe slightly WIFOMish but I don't think any rational person would disagree with it.


Also, just noticed this.

However, I think both you and malpascp are town.

mal has nine posts in this entire game. 9 posts in 23 pages. How can you possibly have a read on him? Buddying (with SirChris, probably trying to clear your scumbuddy mal).



This (below) isn't an attack, just a question.

Why would you vote him for not contributing after we lynched a townie for that same reason?

So you're going to allow people to lurk because Haylen didn't contribute, got lynched for it and flipped town? Explain how this is a good policy.

[SolemnJ]

SolemnJ, how much experience with mafia do you have?

to tell you the truth, a lot.

***

Wicked, when doing pbpa, you need to take into context that people change their minds over time.

Furry seems to be acting strangely; completely stopping his attack on me, and not unvoting either. He seems to be ignoring the topic. As far as I see it, his reason for voting me is baseless, and he only seems to post when defending himself.

***

Also, Wicked, you said ud explain something when I return.

[Rhinox]

@Rhinox - If we assume there is at least one scum on the Haylen wagon, why are you limiting yourself to just Malp? He looks the scummiest to you obviously, but shouldn't you expand that to at least two or three suspects? Perhaps you should go through the wagon and decide who you think is town to narrow the list. I am interested in who you might come up with as the most likely scum candidates.

I'm not limiting myself to just malp, sorry if I gave that impression. I looked at how and when everyone jumped on the haylen wagon in context with the rest of their play and proximity to deadline to come up with my conclusion that I believe malp is most likely to be scum. I've already gone through the wagon and decided who I think is town, but I don't think its best play to announce all and every town read, as that just gives information to the mafia. I of course have other suspects, I just beleive its better to focus on the player you want lynched rather than trying to argue 2 or 3 cases at a time. That doesn't mean I won't question other players or look for other scum.

If I haven't made myself clear, I'm not getting the impression that either cruelty and wicked are scum based on their current exchange. Cruelty is making sound, rational arguments, I just don't agree that what he's arguing makes wicked scum. If you look back at wicked day 1, he became suspiscious of anyone who voiced suspicions of him, so his offense against cruelty is right in line with that. I view that up to now as a town tell, but of course now that I've mentioned that, any future occurances become null.

So I think its time we move on and hear more from and about other players.

[Kdub]

danakillsu replaces Torqez. Thanks!

Furry has been prodded.

Vote Count

CrueKnight (1)

- danakillsu

Furry (0)

-

cruelty (1)

- Wickedestjr

Sir Chris (1)

- malpascp

Rhinox (0)

-

Wickedestjr (2)

- Sir Chris, cruelty

malpascp (1)

- Rhinox

Faraday (0)

-

SolemnJ (1)

- Furry

danakillsu (1)

- Faraday

foilist13 (0)

-

cades (0)

-

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (4)

- cades, CrueKnight, SolemnJ, foilist13

12 players alive, 7 votes needed to lynch.

Deadline is December 19, ~11:00 am MST

[danakillsu]

/confirm

[danakillsu]

did Torqez's vote get transfered to me, or did someone actually vote to lynch me?

[danakillsu]

stupid question: how do I make the text of my post bold?

[danakillsu]

/b like this? /b

[danakillsu]

nope, not like that.