Kingdom Hearts Mafia - Game Over!

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: Actually, I just thought of something. Vaya, please indicate why you asked that question.

[Vaya]

I did have a reason for asking the question. I liked Iec's list, it felt to me like it was coming from town, so I want to say Iec is town. However, if that list was made before he got his role PM, it couldn't have any bearing on his alignment. That's why I asked when he made the list.

[RayFrost]

That makes sense.

[Iecerint]

I think people tend to read from a town perspective. I don't understand how a pre-PM list wouldn't be credible. If anything, I think a pre-PM list would be more credible.

I asked Vaya about his reasons because I was wondering whether he was trying to read something more into the crossed-out players. I suppose not.

[RayFrost]

Iece, would you mind explaining why cobalt & shotty are on your scum list while players like hayker are on your town list?

[Cobalt]

Also, what about people who were crossed off a list and never added back (eg Plum, DTM)?

[Iecerint]

I was on the verge of taking Shotty off the scum when I hit page 23. Reading him in iso, nothing negative really stands out. I got a negative feeling in my stomach somewhere, but maybe I just wasn't crazy about his avatar. <_<

Reading Hayker in iso now, he should probably be off the town list. It looks like his only significant posts have been the huge (but very entertaining!) IIOA on the KH flavor and a couple of posts discrediting ModVoice. I guess I just enjoyed reading his flavorposts.

Cobalt definitely rubs me the wrong way, though. His early play was aimless, and then he responded to pressure to contribute by pressure-voting my predecessor, another lurker. Then he voted ace without explanation. When that didn't catch on, he voted zwet, yet another lurker. Then he switched to voting Deathnote, then back to zwets, which had become somewhat popular on the back of testimony from other players. His play all game has involved moving from target to target without significant explanation until he found a cause that other players would champion for him. It doesn't help that I know he's played with DeathNote at least once, but he feigned ignorance of his meta.

I feel naked not having a vote somewhere, so I'll go ahead and

Vote: Cobalt

on this basis. I'm not certain whether he's my favorite candidate, but it's certainly enough to keep myself from being a non-voter.

[Iecerint]

Players who were removed and never added back can be considered players I don't have a strong read on. It doesn't mean that they belong to the opposite group. For example, I thought Plum was probably town early on, but I became less sure as I read, so I removed her from my town list. This demoted her to "ambiguous."

[Iecerint]

EBWOP: It looks like my predecessor was voting SSK.

Unvote; Vote: Cobalt

.

[Vaya]

I think people tend to read from a town perspective. I don't understand how a pre-PM list wouldn't be credible. If anything, I think a pre-PM list would be more credible.

That's kinda my point actually, that people tend to read from a town perspective. If the townishness came from the fact that you made the list before you got a PM, it wouldn't mean anything about your alignment. But since you did make it after you got your PM, I can say its a sign of you being town.

[Iecerint]

Oh, I see what you mean. OK.

I forgot something else, too.

I'll help you.

@ ModVoice.

[Cobalt]

I'd like more explanation of faking ignorance of DN's meta.
Also, I always try to be voting for a target that I think will be a valid wagon, and rarely explain full cases. I think I've mentioned before that I lean toward the chamber school of scumhunting.

[Sir Chris]

I'd probably like to burn that school to the ground.

I wonder what school I am in! I'd call it Dragon Quest Academy and only hire blondes.

That's a bit off track.

I don't see anything obviously wrong with Cobalt's play, which was what I wanted to originally say, but then he posted he belonged to a school of thought so I just was compelled to be silly.

[Iecerint]

This is what I'm referring to. These first posts are iso back-to-back:

I have a cool idea. Let's lynch DeathNote.

vote deathnote

Look at DN. Aside from the fact that his posts are nearly all fluff, this bit

my character is so basic.... oops. Hope I didn't give anything away.

is absolutely awful, and he also told the modvoice to stop talking. die scum die

So... sajin is the voice?

STOP BEING SO SCUMMY

That comment by DeathNote doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I played an AitP game with him where he was town and was actually modkilled for joking about giving away role information.

It's mind-shatteringly awful. Among the many probings of the voice we've had, pointing out a possible identity for it is the one that is most detrimental to town and helpful to scum. It's horrible all around and I can think of no protown motivation to do it.

Then players start explaining that the "mind-shatteringly awful" aspects of DN's play aren't a reliable scumtell for him. Cobalt shifts his approach:

Plum, here's the problem I have with your view of DN: he has an extremely antitown playstyle, so scum will never kill him. But his meta means he won't get lynched for playing scummy, either. So he gets a free pass.

Since Cobalt really knew that his problems with DN play were quite null all along, this looked disingenuous to me. A more honest approach would have been pointing out that DN was an anti-town player and therefore deserving of a policy lynch (i.e. not dissimilar to what a lot of players are doing to zwet, though some of them claim he's on the scummy side of his meta this game).

[Cobalt]

Just because he has an antitown meta doesn't mean I won't point out when he does scummy things.

[Iecerint]

Your posts don't just point out his scummy things; they do so while ignoring his meta. You don't even correct other players' inference that you do not understand said meta. Even if you're town and mean the best or whatever, I think your methods were a little deceitful.

[Cobalt]

I didn't get the impression the other players didn't know I had already played with DN.

[Iecerint]

It looks like I may have made a mistake on this note. Based on that last quoted Cobalt quote I listed, I remembered this Plum bit as directed at Cobalt:

Deathnote and Zwet would both be acceptable lynches in my eyes, but frankly DisCode is so blatantly scum! For Zwet, at least, his behavior is normally this scummy. Can't really say about DN, haven't played with him enough to know.

DeathNote has been known to act extremely anti-Town, get told that, continue to do so and get practically speed-lynched on Day 1 as VT; he's a liability but the anti-Townness is a nulltell (towntell?) for him.

But it looks like it was directed at Gorrad. It's still true that Kdub educated you on DH's playstyle without you correcting him, though:

That comment by DeathNote doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I played an AitP game with him where he was town and was actually modkilled for joking about giving away role information.

It's mind-shatteringly awful. Among the many probings if the voice we've had, pointing out a possible identity for it is the one that is most detrimental to town and helpful to scum. It's horrible all around and I can think of no protown motivation to do it.

It's definitely not pro-town, but I was just pointing out that it wouldn't be unprecedented behavior for him.

[Cobalt]

:/ I didn't really see it worth correcting. Anyone can meta me as you did.

[Iecerint]

I don't think the fact that anyone could have called out your behavior excuses that it is questionable behavior. I also think it would take an unusual kind of player to meta you for something like that. I only know because I was there when you played with DN.

[Cobalt]

Which game was this, again?

[Iecerint]

Real cute, Cobalt.

Give him votes, please. Secret scumtell.

[Cobalt]

lol

[Cobalt]

Oh, it was Super Upick we played together in. An ongoing game I replaced out of where my player slot is still alive

[Shotty to the Body]

Nice to see some activity out of that slot, welcome Iecerint.

Very well, can't be any worse than my current vote.

unvote vote Cobalt

Raider in your next post please post a scumlist and specifically thoughts on Cobalt, Sir Chris, Discode, the Zwet policy lynch, and anyone else you find note-worthy.