Mini 878: Nouns Mafia - Da game is ovah!

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: I meant to say that Open 81 taught me that scum usually won't kill the vig if they know the vig will mishit (but they usually won't block him or her either).

[Iecerint]

SC's post doesn't make much sense. Why would SC think that EK was roleblocked if he thinks he's a bulletproof townie? For that matter, why would scum roleblock EK when she's announced her intention to kill a bulletproof townie?

[StrangerCoug]

It's based more on what elvis_knits said than any knowledge that my role gives me. She said she'd also consider Percy, and he might not be a gambler. Hence, why I think Percy is condemned if elvis_knits was roleblocked.

[Iecerint]

I see. It's still pretty remote thinking. If I were in your claimed position, the elsewhere-entertained notion that EK was roleblocked wouldn't even cross my mind.

That's not to say that I disagree with your conclusion, reasons aside.

[StrangerCoug]

I have better reason to believe that my bulletproof abilities are confirmed than that elvis_knits got roleblocked, but Percy needed that warning.

[elvis_knits]

Okay, wait.

SC, you're saying that if the scum knew I was going to shoot a town they would not bother to kill me or to block me (even if they could block).

That sounds good.

So if I was NOT blocked.

That speaks to you being town (like you say) or NK immune due to being SK or GF.

Also that would suggest Percy is town. (He could also be NK immune SK or GF, but if he was hoping to absorb the kill them he would have to explain tomorrow WHY he was still alive, and with you already claiming BP, he can't explain it).

So are you arguing that my night result means that you are BP, there is no mafia RB, and that Percy is town also?

If so, who do you think is scum?

You have to be thinking Iecerint and ML, and Budja(Konowa)? Yes?

[StrangerCoug]

Okay, wait.

SC, you're saying that if the scum knew I was going to shoot a town they would not bother to kill me or to block me (even if they could block).

That sounds good.

So if I was NOT blocked.

That speaks to you being town (like you say) or NK immune due to being SK or GF.

Also that would suggest Percy is town. (He could also be NK immune SK or GF, but if he was hoping to absorb the kill them he would have to explain tomorrow WHY he was still alive, and with you already claiming BP, he can't explain it).

So are you arguing that my night result means that you are BP, there is no mafia RB, and that Percy is town also?

Close. Yes, you should have reason to believe that I am bulletproof, and your explanation that Percy is therefore likely town makes sense to me. Mafia roleblockers are not ruled out, but they have no reason to target you unless Percy is scum. If you were roleblocked, then Percy is fudged.

If so, who do you think is scum?

You have to be thinking Iecerint and ML, and Budja(Konowa)? Yes?

Yes, with Budja most likely being SK of those three.

[Budja]

You are so obviously the SK it hurts.
Percy's 815 is very good posting.

Claim: Ten-pin Bowling Ball, Vanilla Townie

[Iecerint]

Progress. Choose the next, please.

[elvis_knits]

If I'm choosing, I say Percy next.

Unless someone else really wants to go.

[elvis_knits]

Okay, wait.

SC, you're saying that if the scum knew I was going to shoot a town they would not bother to kill me or to block me (even if they could block).

That sounds good.

So if I was NOT blocked.

That speaks to you being town (like you say) or NK immune due to being SK or GF.

Also that would suggest Percy is town. (He could also be NK immune SK or GF, but if he was hoping to absorb the kill them he would have to explain tomorrow WHY he was still alive, and with you already claiming BP, he can't explain it).

So are you arguing that my night result means that you are BP, there is no mafia RB, and that Percy is town also?

Close. Yes, you should have reason to believe that I am bulletproof, and your explanation that Percy is therefore likely town makes sense to me. Mafia roleblockers are not ruled out, but they have no reason to target you unless Percy is scum. If you were roleblocked, then Percy is fudged.

I do not have reason to believe you are bulletproof. I have reason to believe that you are bulletproof, OR SK, OR GF... or that there is a mafia RB.

And I am ASKING YOU if you are trying to say Percy is town. I'm not telling you I necessarily believe that. I'm trying to figure out what you are saying with your "scum won't kill a vig they think is aimed at town."

I have asked the mod if he can tell me if I was RBed. Some mods do notify players, so I just want to make sure. If he will tell me, I will tell the rest of you.

If so, who do you think is scum?

You have to be thinking Iecerint and ML, and Budja(Konowa)? Yes?

Yes, with Budja most likely being SK of those three.

Why do you think Budja the SK?

[MacavityLock]

pluperfect subjunctive!

*grammargasm* loquerisne linguam latinam?

No, I don't speak Latin. I just had very good English teachers, and apparently remember their lessons from 12 years ago.

Much as I'd love to talk about certain things, I'm going to wait for all claims. I think the claim order is probably locked in to Percy, Iec, me, unless anyone has serious objections.

[Budja]

No, thats a good order.

I do agree EK being roleblocked -> Percy scum and/or SC non-BP scum.
Either way, SC is still likely scum.

Why do you think Budja the SK?

I should have asked this .
I'm Interested in your answer SC.

[StrangerCoug]

And I am ASKING YOU if you are trying to say Percy is town. I'm not telling you I necessarily believe that. I'm trying to figure out what you are saying with your "scum won't kill a vig they think is aimed at town."

I wasn't trying to say that Percy is town because I am bulletproof, no. Before you said it suggests that Percy is town, I felt that he go either way.

Why do you think Budja the SK?

Some of it has to do with process of elimination. Of the living players, I know what I am, you are very likely to be town, Percy's confirmed Mafia if you got roleblocked, I don't think an SK would post the kind of weak cases that MacavityLock has against me, and my gut tells me that Iecerint is not the SK. Who's left?

[Iecerint]

If I were in SC's position -- regardless of my alignment -- I would come to the same conclusion and indicate that Budja was the SK. (This is not to indicate that SC's alignment is in any significant way ambiguous.)

[Percy]

I am

A Mostly Empty Bottle of Jack Daniels

, a two-shot bus driver. Last night I switched SpyreX and elvis_knits, and I've still got one use. I actually could have used both of my shots in one night, but I chose to do nothing N1 and keep one for N3.

If elvis was blocked, it was because someone tried to block SpyreX. If the scum were concerned that SpyreX would get more powers, they may have tried to block him while killing the vig. Either that, or there is no RB and SC is in fact unNKable.

SC is trying to convince us that he's really oblivious to stuff like logic and strategy, but I remember at one point he seemed pretty smart.

Yeah, I think he's playing this card

very

forcefully. His mistake in calling elvis "Percy" yesterday is just too obvious to be genuine imo, and SC has been around for a while - I doubt he wouldn't know what to do with a BP role.

You are so obviously the SK it hurts.

I know you're questioning why SC thinks you're the SK, but why do

you

think SC is the SK, as opposed to, say, mafia RB/GF/whatever? If it hurts with its obviousness, I think we'd all like to share in that pain.

Iec, I believe you're next.

[Iecerint]

I am

Randall Kennedy, author of the 2003 book

[removed]: The Strange Career of a Troubling Word

, Cop. When I investigate someone, I learn their noun and alignment.

N1 I investigated ML because I thought he was active enough to draw conclusions if he was scum, but inactive enough that it would be hard to get a conclusive read on him otherwise. I learned that his noun was "Picasso's Guernica" and that he was town. My results indicated specifically that he was town rather than that he was "Innocent," so I think this clears him of both the SK and mafia roles.

N2 I investigated SX because I thought he was scummy enough to survive N2 and he was a major suspect of mine given Seol's flip (i.e. hypothetical SCSX and SeolPercy scumteams I mentioned yesterday). I think we could have lynched SC yesterday had he not interfered. It also seemed like elvis would be unlikely to go along with a SX lynch if I didn't have a Cop result on him. I was told that I was not able to investigate SX. This could reflect that he was NKed, that he was un-investigateable, or that I was RB'd. I asked the Mod about this at the start of D2, but have received no response. I am inclined to believe it was because SX was NK'd.

ML is last.

[StrangerCoug]

Percy, why did you switch SpyreX and elvis_knits?

[Iecerint]

Here's a thought --

If Percy is telling the truth, that means that I was actually "unable to investigate" elvis last night. SX's NK couldn't explain that. So I was roleblocked, EK cannot be investigated, or Percy is lying.

[Budja]

@Percy, I believe he is bulletproof and a bullet-proof SK makes sense. I've never seen bullet-proof scum before. Not that I'll be upset if he is mafia.

If I were in SC's position -- regardless of my alignment -- I would come to the same conclusion and indicate that Budja was the SK. (This is not to indicate that SC's alignment is in any significant way ambiguous.)

I hate to pull suspicion onto myself but does this imply you share that view?

[Iecerint]

No. I think that SC is SK and that you and Percy are scumbuddies. There's a vague, vague outside chance that EK is a (brilliant) uninvestigateable SK and one of you three is town, but this would require me to accept that the apparent arsonist is town, which is unlikely unless ML claims it. I doubt he will, even if it does kinda fit his noun flavor. I think he would have been more suspicious of elvis up til now.

Best play IMO is to lynch you or Percy, redirect SC to the other of you, then lynch SC tomorrow. I'm inclined to believe that Percy should be lynched because he may be faking a PR to prevent tracker claims from having messed him up, but I'm not sure.

I think Percy fakeclaimed bus-driver because it allows him to potentially take EK's place in keeping the town win possible (e.g. performing the "redirect SC to the other scum") step.

[Percy]

Percy, why did you switch SpyreX and elvis_knits?

I thought elvis, as claimed vig, would draw the NKs. I thought SpyreX was most likely to be scum.

Iecerint, why did you insist on claiming

before

ML? Surely the obvious thing to do would be to wait until

after

he claims to check your sanity/his claim...? This smells really bad.

I was roleblocked, EK cannot be investigated, or Percy is lying.

I think your analysis here (given that your claim is the truth, which I'm not sold on due to this ML oddness) is spot on; however, I obviously think it's one of the former two options.

@Percy, I believe he is bulletproof and a bullet-proof SK makes sense.

This is not painfully obvious. I think your stance on this issue may very well point to one of two things; either you're the SK hoping to do some finger pointing, or you're covering for the mafia RB. I don't see any other reason why you'd be so eager to conclude that SC is a bulletproof SK.

[Iecerint]

I had ML's noun in addition to his alignment, so claiming before him with his noun would allow him to confirm me. Otherwise, I could have been fakeclaiming as he already would have given his rolename. I breadcrumbed to him a little D2, so it shouldn't have mattered, but I figured it couldn't hurt to make it a sure thing. Since no one else has claimed ML's noun, I thought it was pretty unlikely that I'd been busdriven, so I was pretty confident that my results were accurate.

I'll admit that I had not considered the sanity issue. I have never been in a game with a non-sane Cop. If I had thought of that, I would have insisted on going last. I figure that's a pretty outside chance, though.

[Iecerint]

He could also be GF, but that's similarly on the unlikely side of things IMO.

[Iecerint]

ALERT: I have just been informed via PM that I was roleblocked N2. My N2 result is now independent of Percy's alleged bus-drive, so EK's investigativity is no longer in question. This probably also means that EK was not roleblocked, unless the scum have 2 roleblockers or something. (I imagine that EK will be able to let us know about this.) This means that SC is most likely bulletproof.

However, I've thought of another possibility -- in the event that A and B are busdriven and A NKs B, does A target himself? If it's ever the case, it might explain scumPercy's alleged busdrive. Busdriving elvis's target with elvis would suicide her. It might also explain EK's shot failure (e.g. if the Mod ultimately decided that the kill wouldn't go through), though I'd be willing to bet that SC is bulletproof regardless.