Mini 878: Nouns Mafia - Da game is ovah!

[elvis_knits]

My hypothesis for spyrex is that he became a lightening rod and was able to draw all NKs to himself.

I mean, even if scum banked on me becoming vanilla last night, it seems very convenient that they would both decide to hit spyrex. Spyrex didn't even know if he would gain more abilites. He might have just stayed doublevoter. If they're not going to kill me, wouldn't they try to go after a potential cop?

[elvis_knits]

Popcorn, elvis chooses next to claim?

I want one of percy/budja to go first. Then Iecerint. I want ML to go last. I know I can't just set the whole order, but that is what I would do if I had my wish.

Conclusion: As a direct result of the above, it is likely that SC is some sort of scum, and that the scum faction that doesn't include him has a roleblocker. I think the most likely case is that SC is NK-immune SK, and that there is a maf faction with two players remaining, one who killed SpyreX, and one who roleblocked elvis.

Spyrex speculated on the mafia power roles he thought possible. He didn't name MafiaRB. He said something about "other common scum power roles don't make sense because of [secret information]." Which I guess was some sort of role-based hypothesis? Maybe he thought a RBer wouldn't work with his "evolving" role? I meant to ask about this and forgot.

But if there is a mafia RB, then SC doesn't need to be NK-immune SK. We only need to have a mafia RB -OR- a nk-immune SK for my night result to happen.

[Iecerint]

I don't think that would've gone into effect until tonight. I agree that the targeting choice is bizarre, though, especially given the doctor flip. Maybe both teams thought SX was the other faction?

If we are all claiming, I must claim before ML. That is my only condition.

[MacavityLock]

But if there is a mafia RB, then SC doesn't need to be NK-immune SK. We only need to have a mafia RB -OR- a nk-immune SK for my night result to happen.

True, but there also is probably a reason that SpyreX pulled all kills, other than just random luck. Lightning rod-ing is possible, but that's pretty uncommon I'd imagine (don't think I've ever seen one), though this game has been funky.

[elvis_knits]

I don't think that would've gone into effect until tonight. I agree that the targeting choice is bizarre, though, especially given the doctor flip. Maybe both teams thought SX was the other faction?

Actually, good point. Maybe you're right.

If we are all claiming, I must claim before ML. That is my only condition.

Fine by me.

[MacavityLock]

Popcorn, elvis chooses next to claim?

I want one of percy/budja to go first. Then Iecerint. I want ML to go last. I know I can't just set the whole order, but that is what I would do if I had my wish.

Screw it. elvis, set up your preferred whole order. Let's see how people respond to that. Don't forget to include SC, just in case he has anything more to add to his BP claim.

[MacavityLock]

Or, if you prefer, choose who goes next after each claim, elvis. That way, scum can't be sure who's going next. Yeah, I like that. One by one, each claim directed by elvis.

[elvis_knits]

Good point. SC can change his claim if he wants.

SC, CLAIM FIRST!

[Budja]

I was just about to post my claim too .

Anyway, I've read day1 and skimmed the end of day 2.
SC behaviour at the end of day 2 makes him my top lynch.
EK is obv town for her early comments on Neo/Box (and for the proven claim now )
ML feels townish, very similar play to my last game with him.
No read on Percy/Iec yet.

If theres anything specific you want to point out to me, please go ahead.

[elvis_knits]

(I'm really hoping the SK realizes his best bet is to claim he's the SK)

[elvis_knits]

I was just about to post my claim too .

Anyway, I've read day1 and skimmed the end of day 2.
SC behaviour at the end of day 2 makes him my top lynch.
EK is obv town for her early comments on Neo/Box (and for the proven claim now )
ML feels townish, very similar play to my last game with him.
No read on Percy/Iec yet.

If theres anything specific you want to point out to me, please go ahead.

I'm so glad you're up to date (or up to date enough to participate).

Thank you!

[StrangerCoug]

Good point. SC can change his claim if he wants.

SC, CLAIM FIRST!

My role hasn't changed. I am Kevlar, bulletproof townie. My ability doesn't weaken, strengthen, or do anything complicated like that. Strong stuff.

If we're doing popcorn, I actually want MacavityLock to claim next, but if Iecerint insists on going before him, the only thing stopping it is my perception that there should be an attempt to go from scummiest to towniest...

I do not buy that SC failed to read the post before his hammer, where I laid out the potential problem with the night actions, and the town's possibility of being decimated.

I was anxious to hammer Seol after his refusal to claim. I'm not known for my patience even as a moderator (see the start and end of Mini 716).

I do not buy all of SC's vig fishing, and claims that the game was unbalanced if he knew he was a BP townie.

Denying the existence of a role is fishing for it? I don't understand the scum motivation of saying "I don't think we have a vig." Maybe saying "I don't think there is a doc" after a night with no kills is scummy since it implies knowledge of a Mafia roleblocker, but not "I don't think there is a vig." It is understandable for me to think that there was only one of an SK or a full vig and the Mafia—the three of them together in a mini is very unusual.

And if I say I didn't read the details about the claim, lynch me, because I know from looking at it the role as you describe is very complicated.

I do not buy that he didn't think to try to draw nightkills if he was a BP townie.

As I said, first time I've gotten it; therefore, not a role I'm familiar with when it comes to strategy (the latter of which often fails me in general).

[Iecerint]

I'm fine with EK choosing the next to claim. If she wants that to be me to accomodate both ML claiming ASAP and me going before him, that is fine. I doubt she will decide to do things that way, though.

[MacavityLock]

At one point, he specifically told me that if I targetted someone for a kill, and was successful, and gained their actions, they would replace all actions that I previously held, whether I had used them or not. In essence, if my kill on SC had gone through, I would gain whatever he had, but lose the kill and the redirect, even though I had never used the redirect.

I'd like to be sure I'm reading this right. elvis, if you were to have vigged a vanilla, would you have become vanilla? (Look at that use of the pluperfect subjunctive!)

[Iecerint]

I hope not. That would violate the Mega Man theme. <_<

[Percy]

I am willing to claim whenever elvis wants me to. I don't buy SC's claim (bulletproof townie in a game with a bomb? No attempt to draw the NK? His noun matching his power perfectly? This is a scum fakeclaim, guys), his hammer of Seol is scummy as hell, and I think he should be lynched as soon as we're done claiming, barring some massive inconsistency in the claims.

pluperfect subjunctive!

*grammargasm* loquerisne linguam latinam?

Also,

@Mod: I will be V/LA from the 12th of December until the 20th.

[elvis_knits]

At one point, he specifically told me that if I targetted someone for a kill, and was successful, and gained their actions, they would replace all actions that I previously held, whether I had used them or not. In essence, if my kill on SC had gone through, I would gain whatever he had, but lose the kill and the redirect, even though I had never used the redirect.

I'd like to be sure I'm reading this right. elvis, if you were to have vigged a vanilla, would you have become vanilla? (Look at that use of the pluperfect subjunctive!)

If I were to have vigged a vanilla and SUCEEDED, I would have gained all night actions of the vanilla (which are none), and lost all my prior abilities. So, yes, I would have become vanilla.

The loophole, which I did not anticipate, was that if my action does not succeed, I lose the action I tried, but retain the chance for actions I haven't used, as my actions have not been replaced by new.

Basically, I can take on any actions. Personally, I think drake is a genius and vig should always be played this way. Because it removes the chance of the vig targetting a town power role and losing the town power role. Like if I had vigged Seol and succeeded, the doc would be dead, but I would become the new doc. So, vig damage to the town is contained. Quite awesome.

[elvis_knits]

I want Budja to go next, unless anyone has objections.

(And I know SC has objections but I'm not counting that since basically everyone thinks he's scum).

[elvis_knits]

SC is trying to convince us that he's really oblivious to stuff like logic and strategy, but I remember at one point he seemed pretty smart. I think he was the first player to mention "arsonist." I had already figured it out since I could sort out the night actions easier knowing my part in it being the second kill on boxman/hoopla. But how did SC figure it out? Seems like an astute observation, and not fitting with his excuses for vig fishing or his lack of strategy at playing BP.

[elvis_knits]

What is wrong with you people? I've been snowed in all day and nobody is posting here...



I will have to go hug the dead body of SpyreX.

[Iecerint]

What do you want me to say? I agree with you and SC is obvscum? It kinda goes without saying. Of the 3 obvscum players, his scuminess is the least ambiguous. Your implication that he may be SK is reasonable and augments what ML already said.

Waiting on Budja.

[elvis_knits]

Iecerint,

Chat with me.

Let's look at the Netopalis wagon:

Neto:

boxman (scum),

Sensfan (town),

Iecerint(?), ML (?),

Seol (town), Elvis (town!), mathcam (town)

So, if you and ML are both town, then the Netopalis wagon was all town except for box.

I think this is possible since there was an exodus from Netwagon (SC and Konowa) right before Netclaimed and then a bunch of towns went for the BWCS.

But I think SC is prob an SK. I think he voted boxman early because he wasn't a boxman buddy.

I dunno, I guess I can believe that Konowa tried to save boxman all day until he thought it was impossible, then he switched to boxman, and miracle of miracles Neto claims and a bunch of townies lynch him.

I also think it would be smart for a scum team to not have both buddies trying to save boxman. BUT, the other buddy doesn't want to actually buss him either, hoping the buddy can avoid lynch. So, the other scum votes off both major wagons. Which, you know, was Percy.

I can believe that.

I am still slightly suspicious though since the wagon would be all town except for boxman. I mean, the circumstances make it possible, but it's still a bit irregular.

And Seol did think Percy was town. But Seol also let us lynch the doc, and nobody is infallible.

Thoughts?

[Iecerint]

I think the basis of my belief will become clearer after I claim.

I would explain the large number of town players the same way that Seol did -- after a (premature & unrequested) vanilla claim, lynching returns the best expected value for town.

[Iecerint]

If you'd like, I can partially claim up-front. There's just one detail I'd prefer to save until Budja and Percy have claimed.

[StrangerCoug]

I am willing to claim whenever elvis wants me to. I don't buy SC's claim (bulletproof townie in a game with a bomb?

And a bunch of other ways to die? There's a method to this madness, now that I think about it.

No attempt to draw the NK?

Nope. As I said, didn't occur to me to try.

His noun matching his power perfectly?

Yep. That's why I didn't like the Netopalis claim.

I think he should be lynched as soon as we're done claiming, barring some massive inconsistency in the claims.

Be careful with that statement—depending on how sure elvis_knits is that she got roleblocked, you can just as easily be in big trouble. Open 81 taught me that the scum usually won't block the vig if they know there will be a misvig, and she said she'd shoot one of us. As much money as I want to put on MacavityLock, you look at least as good for scum.

SC is trying to convince us that he's really oblivious to stuff like logic and strategy, but I remember at one point he seemed pretty smart. I think he was the first player to mention "arsonist."

Where did I say anything along the lines that I was oblivious to logic, first of all?

Also, by strategy failing me in general, I mean that I'm not good at it. You say it like it's a brand new concept to me, which it isn't. You can play a game of chess with me, and while I have an opening in that game that I feel serves me well, anybody short of a newcomer can beat me. Play me after this game is over if you don't believe me.

No. Seriously. Play a game of chess with me when this is over if you don't believe I suck at strategy.

I had already figured it out since I could sort out the night actions easier knowing my part in it being the second kill on boxman/hoopla. But how did SC figure it out? Seems like an astute observation, and not fitting with his excuses for vig fishing or his lack of strategy at playing BP.

Arsonist is actually an easy guess to make at there being in the setup. The Mafia has to have killed SensFan and Boxman was scummier than mathcam. I don't know how anything else can be concluded here.