Mini 884 - Last Man Standing (Over)

[PorkchopExpress]

Up to my arse in boxes at the moment, I'm going to give Ecto a reread (and god knows what else) and post in the morning. My apologies for the inconvenience.

[Sotty7]

Ecto, I am dissing Vi as you say because her play after she got shot the second time was just awful, she knows this and basically admitted it in her last post:

I do think you're town Vi, but very pissed that you're just shooting.

Speaking as the Grateful Dead, being very pissed is a gamewide sentiment. Just imagine how I feel reading d_j 501.

Not that that excuses anything I've done ITT, but etc. I'd actually like to retcon this entire game >.>

Now I am not saying everything she did was bad, I think we can look at all the stuff up until she was shot a second time, but after that she was just having a little temper tantrum. Can hardly blame her considering how others are playing in this thread but that's how I read it.

Now you basically said that because Vi flipped town you want to go back and read what she had to say, I have no issue with that but you were the one that built a big case on Vi based on those posts. You thought that what she did and said was scummy enough to shoot her a second time to make sure she ended up dead. Townie or not shouldn't that mean that you just disagree with Vi in this game? Knowing her alignment should change your mind too much, unless you want to admit you were completely wrong and she was completely right. It just felt like you were getting ready to appeal to her authority.

I am not trying to goad you into voting for VP, I just don't see the reason your vote isn't active. Outside of VP, who else do you suspect?

I do agree with you on the Mod, he/they need to check in and give us a little guidance. A replacement Nacho wouldn't be too bad either. As for d3x, he is pretty much active lurking IMO he hasn't committed on the whole Vi/ecto/VP thing yet and seems to be very content to sit back while the rest of us battle it out. It's simply not good enough.

[Ectomancer]

Now you basically said that because Vi flipped town you want to go back and read what she had to say, I have no issue with that but you were the one that built a big case on Vi based on those posts. You thought that what she did and said was scummy enough to shoot her a second time to make sure she ended up dead. Townie or not shouldn't that mean that you just disagree with Vi in this game? Knowing her alignment should change your mind too much, unless you want to admit you were completely wrong and she was completely right. It just felt like you were getting ready to appeal to her authority.

I'm not above eating a little crow now and again. Yes, on simple disagreements I doubt another read will change my opinion much, but on issues where motivation by Vi was in doubt, then the motivation is no longer in doubt and it deserves an unclouded interpretation. I understand the concern, but that shot could only ever be a minor point against you anyhow, if one at all. I wasn't trying to prep it up for one by giving Vi's words some authority.

[don_johnson]

ecto: you realize you are asking me to not push a lynch on cnoA even though my reasoning for doing so is extremely parralel with reasons why you are wanting to lynch vp?

going nightless is stupid until we have at least one night.

i don't think everyone can shoot.

i don't see any reaosn why a particular ability is going to determine alignment.

conclusion: lynch vp, confid, or ecto and go to night. or sotty7. i don't personally find ecto scummy, but this "lets lynch vp but let confid go" attitude seems discontinuous with his convictions.

[MiteyMouse]

Official Vote Count!

*Ectomancer 3 (pwnz, Amished, VP Baltar, Sotty)
don_johnson 2 (ConfidAnon, d3x, don_johnson)
Benmage 1 (Nachomamma8)
pwnz 1 (Benmage)

Not voting:

PorkchopExpress, Ectomancer

Hohum is having some issues getting here, I am in contact with him and we will chat about an extension. In the meantime, please bear with me...I am trying.

I will prod NachoMamma...if anyone else needs a prod please let me know in here!

[MiteyMouse]

Fixed Official Vote Count!

*Ectomancer 4 (pwnz, Amished, VP Baltar, Sotty)
don_johnson 3 (ConfidAnon, d3x, don_johnson)
Benmage 1 (Nachomamma8)
pwnz 1 (Benmage)

Not voting:

PorkchopExpress, Ectomancer

[don_johnson]

innaccurate vote count fail.

i am not voting for myself.

i was voting vp baltar.

unvote.

vote confidanon

[VP Baltar]

I think it was a suggestion.

[Ectomancer]

I hear you and I follow that I risk being hypocritical, but...he's a healer. We know that for certain. I also know the old axiom of "you lynch scum", but...we can use that heal and shoot him if he tries to heal the wrong player.

[Ectomancer]

Still missing Amished now for 6 days now as well. Seriously I think half the game is inactive or flat out MIA.

[VP Baltar]

Ecto, what are your thoughts on a Porkchop lynch?

[Benmage]

Amish went V/LA-Away 0 access. should be back, what Dec 8?..sucks i know. But we have 4 other lurkers/activelurkers/noncontributors.

VPB why only Ecto? I'd answer, or do you want his opinion alone?

[don_johnson]

I think it was a suggestion.

ha. this makes me chuckle.

[VP Baltar]

ben, you can answer if you'd like. I welcome all opinions, but I'm most interested in ecto. Feel free though.

[Benmage]

ben, you can answer if you'd like. I welcome all opinions, but I'm most interested in ecto. Feel free though.

Off top of my head, hes not of much concern when it comes to a lynch. I've liked things he's said, and thing there are many more stronger candidates.

Why do you propose him as a lynch candidate?

[don_johnson]

*yawn*

mod: can i have another bullet please?

[Ectomancer]

Ecto, what are your thoughts on a Porkchop lynch?

Not interested. Guy doesnt post often, but when he does he takes positions, asks questions, makes accusations. His last real input was Nov 30th. He promises more soon, so was MIA, but now isn't. Maybe one of the last players I'm looking at.

[MiteyMouse]

Official Vote Count!

*Ectomancer 3 (pwnz, Amished, VP Baltar, Sotty)
don_johnson 2 (ConfidAnon, d3x)
Benmage 1 (Nachomamma8)
pwnz 1 (Benmage)
ConfidAnon 1 (don_johnson)

Not voting:

PorkchopExpress, Ectomancer

[MiteyMouse]

Fixed Official Vote Count!

*Ectomancer 4 (pwnz, Amished, VP Baltar, Sotty)
don_johnson 2 (ConfidAnon, d3x)
Benmage 1 (Nachomamma8)
pwnz 1 (Benmage)
ConfidAnon 1 (don_johnson)

Not voting:

PorkchopExpress, Ectomancer
Crap on a stick....sorry guys!

[Ectomancer]

So it appears I am at L-2? 33-50% of the town missing or inactive for about a week. Hmm. I've claimed already so I have no need to decide between L-2 or L-1 on that one. That number could hop quickly with a group that large rushing back in no?
Well, to VPB I believe it was, you say Vi claimed, correct? I think it is also true he claimed vanilla. I've also heard it said that my shot came out of the blue or something like that. Well why would I shoot Vi of all people if I were scum? I know wifom yadayada, but seriously, why? Out of the blue? Because I had, what, 2 votes at the time? IIRC?
I'm still hoping to get the mod ruling on the deadline before the actual deadline gets here, but I'm also still going to try to take my time in figuring out who is the best lynch, and I'm not going to be rushed into it simply because my head is lingering dangerously near the noose.

[don_johnson]

would you like me to switch and put you at L-1?

[Benmage]

would you like me to switch and put you at L-1?

scumday, you newb.

Ecto, amish is alrdy voting you/away so no worries there.

Still surprised you aint voting anyone. Porks atleast doing a reread.

unvote vote ConA.

Mighty, can you prod?

[PorkchopExpress]

@Pork/Ecto Who are your guys main suspects, and what are your opinions on VPB specifically?

@Porkchop-who the hell do you think is scum? I haven't seen much of anything from you that couldn't be considered poking and prodding from the sidelines. I have been holding back on you for a bit because I know you're a good town player, but posts like 468 seem to come up frequently from you this game.

Yeah, I’m getting totally pantsed by this game. I’m having a hard time getting any freaking purchase at all, feeling more than a little outclassed and it’s all very frustrating. I’ve reread the thread a bunch of times and it gives me a migraine. But, here goes...

@VP RE: Benmage vote.

I’m not in the mood to go around in circles on this, but that is not what you accused him of in the first place. To begin with, you accused him of following wagons with no original thought (Iso 17) and then, after Ben’s reply when he points out that you’ve done the same thing on the Confid wagon, you focussed on his mistake-riddled NM8 vote and his eagerness to vote before Confid “has even had a chance to explain himself”. That last part isn’t true either, since ConFid had already explained himself (post 120), and Ben had referenced that in the posts that you objected to. So far you’ve: hypocritically accused Ben of unoriginal voting, you’ve reframed the issue when you were called on it, and then you’ve erroneously accused him on rushing a vote. Hell, even in that quote of mine you dropped the part where I mentioned this the first time around and then replied that your later reasoning was what you were saying from the get go, as if I didn’t cover it at all. (So, in this case, I explained why I thought you were being hypocritical and you basically said ‘nah uh’.) This is why Ben’s isoread was compelling. My instinct that you were playing oddly just got me looking in your direction is all. Did I miss anything here?

Vote: VP Baltar

RE: The Ecto Vote.

Previous to your PoE, you mentioned him about a sum total of three times. You dismissed the NM8 wagon (indirect mention in iso 4), you threatened Ecto with a lynch for ignoring questions (iso 9) and then you asked him for non-NM8 related opinions (iso 14). You offered a case when you mentioned your PoE (pre Vi shot) but evidently you were delayed in putting up. When you did post an argument it ended up being about Ecto’s post-shooting play. I’d like to know what was tipping you off earlier.

I don’t think Ecto’s interaction with Ben (about shooting dj) is fear-mongering in the slightest. Ben’s said on more than a few occasions that he thinks dj is likely town, and on more than a few other occasions that he was going to shoot or lynch him. Trying to lynch someone you believe to be town (but is gunning for you) is horrendously bad play, worse than just shooting them even. Challenging this position isn’t scummy. Telling someone to act on their suspicions (if they have any) isn’t scummy. If anything, dj is working harder to get Benmage to shoot him than anyone else in the game. It feels like you’re misrepresenting Ecto here.

Frankly, I don’t know why Vi claiming Vanilla while she was wounded is such an important detail. Are you telling me that you’d expect scum to have given up their alignment because they were wounded (even before Confid revealed himself)? Was that were your town read of Vi came from? Simply that there’s no reason not to believe a deathbed claim?

Your vote seems pretty weak to me and your case is incomplete.

RE: Ecto’s Case on Vi and his shooting

Yeah, I didn’t articulate this very well. I don’t think it was an incorrect explanation of Vi’s play but I had a town feeling coming from Vi based off of the gun/bad shot talk (of course, Ecto wouldn’t have been able to use this even if he is town). I also have a terrible mind for hypothetical mechanics, so I was having trouble with the idea that scum could have daykills without skewing the game balance. My first thought was that there would have to be some sort of disincentive for scum to shoot up the place (which is why I thought their accuracy might be a tip off). I hadn’t considered the possibility that everyone might have a chance of missing (bad shots greater than others) or the like. So, I was concerned about the mechanics of Ecto’s play rather than his case.

Suspects are currently VP (scummy interaction with Ecto and Ben) and Pwnz (he’s pretty much actively lurking at this point.) Some of the hardcore buddying between Sotty and VP has me slightly suspicious of her.

[PorkchopExpress]

Oh, megapost apologies etc.

[Ectomancer]

Please mods, deadline answer? Before deadline?

I've posted my own basis for suspicion on VPB. If you want more, I would likely reference others positions as I primarily agree with the assessments. You know good and well I can go back and find more, but seriously, if you've played this game at all you know you can build a case on just about anyone if you are already biased in that direction.
So...along with my posted suspicions and the fact that I cant get an answer from the mods on deadline, and from a "Im town and you might not be" perspective, I'm not getting lynched today.

vote VPB

VP - you might want to pressure those mods for a deadline as well. I'm open to looking other directions, but you are tops for me right now, and I'm not lynching ConfidAnon today. If a deadline extension occurs, I'll open my vote again.