Open 175 - Picking Simplicity (Game Over)

[Col.Cathart]

Skitzer or Hyl are my prefered lynches, 12kb is an acceptable one (possibly yabba too). Not overly keen on any other at this point though.

I'll repeat my question, since the first one was ignored:

What is the reasoning behind Hyl/Yankee/Saberwolf except from voting outside of the wagon at the end of the day?

[Kreriov]

Unvote

Serial might be taking advantage of his more in depth experiences in this game, but he makes enough good points that I am not comfortable voting him. I think a closer look at WarWound is warranted. I still think he was scummy, but can see the idea that he was just a newb. Newb scum maybe, but newb indeed.

I do have one question for Serial.

@Serial - One of your main points against SC is that he votes for WarWound. You characterize it as an 'easy' vote with little substance. I essentially did the same thing when I replaced in. (Though I obviously feel my reasons were solid, of course.) Why did you not go after me for the same thing? Or were my reasons different enough from SC's and more valid?

[SerialClergyman]

Kreirov, the main reason is because I dislike SCoug's position's play, rather than SCoug's play itself. I felt that that slot was scummy, but had those thoughts confirmed when SCoug, who I know as an excellent player, came in and voted lynchbait, voted poorly in the MSH/Spyrex logic argument and then made grandiose noises about spotting the obvious OMGUS from Nikanor.

But you also should know better, especially as you've seen WarWound's play before. Was your vote primarily a policy vote, or did you feel WW was scummy?

WarWound wasn't doing anything to further the game. He had been allowed lots of opportunity to help us, but he wanted to sit there and whine. That I don't have a meta favoring new players is not scummy. I play hardball.

At this point I'm pretty convinced that WarWound is scum.

Yes, we understand that a lot of the people on the site from whence you came don't have a very high intelligence level. That does not give you the right to opt out of scumhunting because you're afraid of a mislynch. Town doesn't lose if they mislynch once (unless there are five- and six-player games that I don't know about). Town loses if they mislynch too many times. You've also been throwing a lot of ad hominem attacks and otherwise useless content.

Vote: WarWound

In the first quote it looks like you're saying you voted WW because even if he's a newb, he wasn't really helping the town and that's how you roll. In the second quote, made when you first voted him, you seem convinced he was scum based on his actions.

Was your vote for WW a policy vote for an unhelpful new player or because you think you've genuinely found scum?

[StrangerCoug]

WarWound wasn't doing anything to further the game. He had been allowed lots of opportunity to help us, but he wanted to sit there and whine. That I don't have a meta favoring new players is not scummy. I play hardball.

At this point I'm pretty convinced that WarWound is scum.

Yes, we understand that a lot of the people on the site from whence you came don't have a very high intelligence level. That does not give you the right to opt out of scumhunting because you're afraid of a mislynch. Town doesn't lose if they mislynch once (unless there are five- and six-player games that I don't know about). Town loses if they mislynch too many times. You've also been throwing a lot of ad hominem attacks and otherwise useless content.

Vote: WarWound

In the first quote it looks like you're saying you voted WW because even if he's a newb, he wasn't really helping the town and that's how you roll. In the second quote, made when you first voted him, you seem convinced he was scum based on his actions.

Was your vote for WW a policy vote for an unhelpful new player or because you think you've genuinely found scum?

I believed WarWound was legitimately scummy for refusing to scumhunt. If I were to say "We're not lynching anybody today. There's too much risk of a mislynch," and the game was nowhere near LYLO, would you view me as scummy for that too?

The last two sentences of the first quote are less of a case on WarWound and more of a defense against yabbaguy's accusing me of voting WarWound for being lynch bait, by the way. I am less likely to vote for a newbie that's already playing better than I am, but unfortunately, those are hard to come by. One of my weaknesses is that I don't usually differentiate newb tells from scum tells. (I got one from Iguana when I started reading, but she has gotten scummier since.)

[MichelSableheart]

What is the reasoning behind Hyl/Yankee/Saberwolf except from voting outside of the wagon at the end of the day?

Personally, I would be willing to support a Saberwolf lynch because of post #134 by Hyl. Zwet was lynchbait day 1. It is likely that the mafia decided to push his lynch when they had the chance. Hyl's #134 fits that picture exactly.

[Kreriov]

@Serial - I felt, and feel, WarWound was scummy. I also put great stock in Zwet's dying declaration that WarWound is scum. Zwet is typically lynch bait, but when he is town, he seems to pick out one scum somehow before he dies. (And is almost always wrong up until that point!) In particular I did not like how WarWound followed Iguana like a lost little puppy. As SC says, this is normally a scum tell, but it is also a newb mistake. Since there are still 5 anti-town roles out there, I think we can afford to be a bit prudent and try to find out which now that you have replaced into WarWound's spot. With 5 bad guys to find, we really need your help if you are town and, frankly, you will not be that dangerous as scum until much later.

[skitzer]

Iguana: Your first two points on me I can give the same answer: Maybe they aren't scummy, but they are noteworthy. You can't tell me everything you bring up makes you one step closer to betterness. It's simply not the case. And I most definitely did not express a "me too" attitude when I said I would vote zwet. I would have voted zwet

because a lynch is better than no lynch

.

[semioldguy]

Vote Count 15:

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to lynch.

hohum

(2) – Head_Honcho, Col.Cathart

SerialClergyman

(1) – Toro

saberwolf

(1) – Nikanor

yabbaguy

(1) – MichelSableheart

Kreriov

(1) – Flava Flave

MichelSableheart

(1) – SpyreX

StrangerCoug

(1) – SerialClergyman

skitzer

(1) – Iguana

Not Voting (8) –

Blastinus, skitzer, yabbaguy, Grimmy, saberwolf, hohum, StrangerCoug, Kreriov

Notes:

* Prod going out right now since Holiday weekend is over.
* Searching for replacement for Blastinus.
* Deadline for the end of Day Two is on Thursday, December 10 at 2:00pm PST (Pacific Standard Time)

[SpyreX]

Spyrex, at least stop trying to convince MSH that he's wrong, because if he's scum you won't be successful, and try to convince me that he is, and that this logic issue is more important than my case.

I'll try again.

It isn't that he's wrong. It is HOW he is wrong. He's got enough understanding of what he was trying to accomplish that the mistakes in the process are FAR more likely willful than accidental.

Further, the fascination with the SK points heavily at being the SK (especially at this juncture). This culminates with NOT voting for the SK.

Hence for the mo my other business falls to the side because lynching the SK is paramount at this point if one has a good read.

---

That said, we are way too spread out. We need some power wagons to get some business going.

[hohum]

prodded. Forgot about the game. I'll get a post up tonight.

[MichelSableheart]

That said, we are way too spread out. We need some power wagons to get some business going.

Agreed. Willing to support a wagon on yabbaguy, Saberwolf, Head_Honcho and Iguana.

[Col.Cathart]

Personally, I would be willing to support a Saberwolf lynch because of post #134 by Hyl. Zwet was lynchbait day 1. It is likely that the mafia decided to push his lynch when they had the chance. Hyl's #134 fits that picture exactly.

Fair enough, though I'm still far from calling him obvscum. On the other hand, Saberwolf so far he's not helping the town, as he's doing completely nothing, so his lynch isn't really that bad at this point...

I'm interested to finally see some insight from Hohum.

Lynches, I'm fine with: Hohum, StrangerCoug, Nikanor, Blastinus.

Lynches I can support if deadline will demand it: lurkers.

[saberwolf]

I was waiting for somebody to call me on my lurking

ok then, time to read the remaining 20 pages...

[Iguana]

unvote
vote saberwolf

Saber/hyl wagon go

[Col.Cathart]

I was waiting for somebody to call me on my lurking

ok then, time to read the remaining 20 pages...

Wait... You're actually saying, you were lurking deliberately?

[saberwolf]

I was waiting for somebody to call me on my lurking

ok then, time to read the remaining 20 pages...

Wait... You're actually saying, you were lurking deliberately?

yes, I am.

oh, did scum just make the game too easy for you? My bad

[Col.Cathart]

yes, I am.

oh, did scum just make the game too easy for you? My bad

Ugh.

Unvote

vote: Saberwolf

[saberwolf]

I can't get in trouble this game for self hammering as well if I'm not the hammer

vote: saberwolf

[yabbaguy]

I need to re-read later. I was about to post a list of who I want wagonned, but then realized I'm not passionate about any of my hitlist candidates. I need to reassess. Interaction scumhunting is so much harder in a large game...

I'm deliberating a policy vote on the anti-town who's basically thrown the white flag, but y'know... they can flip town, too. It's not like saber was under fire for anything, either. Let's fix that.

@saber: What gives with the selfvoting? Are you still trying to win?

[saberwolf]

I need to re-read later. I was about to post a list of who I want wagonned, but then realized I'm not passionate about any of my hitlist candidates. I need to reassess. Interaction scumhunting is so much harder in a large game...

I'm deliberating a policy vote on the anti-town who's basically thrown the white flag, but y'know... they can flip town, too. It's not like saber was under fire for anything, either. Let's fix that.

@saber: What gives with the selfvoting? Are you still trying to win?

Yes, I'm still trying to win, but you should know by now that my methods are not the traditional ones.

[Iguana]

Well see you tomorrow.

My vote isnt moving.

If this game last past wednesday, somethings wrong.

[SerialClergyman]

Ugh, that's rubbish sabrewolf.

[SpyreX]

... did he just scumclaim and vote himself?

Unvote, Vote: Saber

Note: I'd still prefer to lynch Sable the SK, but.

[SerialClergyman]

Yo Spyrex - tell me what you think about SCoug and my arguments against him even if you think MSH is more important... rough comment is fine.

[SpyreX]

You're not gonna like it.

The more the conversation between you two goes on the MORE convinced I am both of you chuckleheads are town (or doing a REAL good job slapfighting as scum).

I think the issue is more a difference of opinion - sometimes with VI's you nail the lynch. Sometimes not. Now, this is one of those times that WW oozes Town VI so I'm not gonna back it.

However, I'm not condemning SC for it. Nor, ultimately, for jumping on for seeing a presumed (which I still think stands, but I digress) severe backpedal by MS.

You've been a fairly strong bastion of town, so yea there ya go.