Mini 878: Nouns Mafia - Da game is ovah!

[elvis_knits]

EK, has Konowa done anything to change your suspicion of him? Is lingering Konowa suspicion part of the reason that you switched from SC to Seol?

No, Konowa hasn't done anything (at all). PUN!

No, he hasn't done anything to change my mind. Partly he hasn't been too active, which sounds like it's because of real life stuff, his wife's appendix bursting and such. So I don't blame him for that at all, but it's hard for me to get a better read on him. So nothing has changed, no.

My top three are prob, Seol, SC, and Konowa. Konowa farther behind than the other two though.

I think it might be good for everyone to post a top two or three since deadline is Dec2. Posting will probably pick up after the holiday weekend, but we need to be ready to sort things out quickly. So whenever people get a free moment, just say who your top 2-3 people are.

Vote Count Twelf

StrangerCoug:

3 (Konowa, Iecerint, MacavityLock)

Percy:

2 (SpyreX)

SpyreX:

2 (Percy, Seol)

MacavityLock:

1 (StrangerCoug)

Seol:

1 (elvis_knits)

8

alive,

5

to lynch.

Your rapidly approaching Deadline:

Wednesday, December 2nd, 12:00 Noon EST

[Iecerint]

SC > Seol >>> Others

[SpyreX]

Seol / Percy then Konowa.

Seol makes more sense logistically but every bit of Percy's interaction makes me think him higher probability.

I'm not not lynching one of them today.

[elvis_knits]

Why does seol make more sense logistically?

[SpyreX]

The position on the wagon, o course.

[Iecerint]

I think the wagon argument is often strong, but not in this case. When players join a wagon after a vanilla claim, I think said joining is pretty blameless. I understand you counting that as a chip against Seol, but it should be a pretty minimal one IMO. I'd have jumped to Neto's wagon if I weren't already there given his premature vanilla claim.

[SpyreX]

Someday someone will explain to me why that was so premature and why that made it a-ok to jump. Someone.

[Iecerint]

It was premature because he was neither (L-1 + claim request) nor (right at deadline). It's OK to lynch vanilla claims because it was a BWCS -- the expected payoff of continuing to seek out claims was lower. These facts are easy to forget in hindsight because the alternate wagon was on scum, but townSeol and townEK wouldn't know that, etc.

The fact that the claim was premature is less important than the fact that a claim had occurred.

[SpyreX]

That still doesn't add up.

If it was one vote and a fear-claim then SURE. However, it was pretty apparent that the general air of the town was flowing towards him being a lynch.

So he claimed.

Its not rocket science - and if you look at the events after that claim up to lynch and can tell me straight faced that looks like town behavior well, do it. I want it on record.

[Iecerint]

I personally was on the verge of switching to BM, so I did not perceive that the air of the town was headed the way you insinuate.

I think D1 vanilla claims should be followed by a lynch 95% of the time. As such I think that moving to lynch Neto after his vanilla claim was acceptable town behavior.

[StrangerCoug]

Your implicit scumteam is EK, ML, and me (I guess one of us is SK?), whereas we are literally the least scummy players in this game.

I obviously beg to differ, so what does this tell me?

[Iecerint]

I suppose it tells you that I am not very impressed with your scumhunting, regardless of whether it is real or fabricated, and, given that the fabricated kind is more difficult, I see your list as a bit scummy.

[SpyreX]

And the fact the rapidity allowed Box to not even have to claim (especially after SC's post on that page)?

I'm not lynching a vanilla because they are vanilla any more then I'd shy away from a PR claim.

And if you're making the argument that the claim was premature because it wasn't close to deadline... nothing to say about the rapidity of the lynch?

[Iecerint]

It's in the best interest of the town to minimize the number of claims. I'm not sure why you seem to think premature claims should lead town to seek out extra claims. PR claims are often confirmable, so I'd be less prone to lynch a claimed PR. This is more true of some PRs than others.

The claim was not premature specifically because it was far from the deadline. However, had it been close to deadline, I would have forgiven Neto for claiming prematurely. The lynch's rapidity is pretty null-to-pro-town; Neto's lynch was all but a foregone conclusion after his claim, so there was no need to draw it out and risk leaking PM information.

[SpyreX]

Its like bizarro world.

Boxman gets put to L-1 specifically for him to claim.

Doesn't. Instead, as the pressure was being put on Net he claims. Then is lynched for it.

You are saying this series of events is pro-town.

[Iecerint]

I'd forgotten that BM was at L-1. (Was he really?) But it doesn't change much. Mainly, it just emphasizes how silly it was for Neto to claim. And after he'd claimed vanilla, best play was to lynch him.

[SpyreX]

Thats a HUGE point of everything I've been saying, especially about Seol.

Box was at L-1 and this whole vanilla powerlynch hooo business was fueled by scum. It has to be.

[Iecerint]

I still disagree with you about EK and Seol being scummy for lynching the claimed VT; however, I just went back and noticed that SC was asking for BM's claim rather than Neto's claim way back when. I am now converted to being OK with a Seol lynch, maybe even preferring one.

Unvote; Vote: Seol

.

This puts Seol at *L-1*. Unless EK changes her mind (give her a post to do so), I would support a claim from Seol.

[MacavityLock]

My top 3 are:
1) SC
2T) Percy, Iec.

Iec is getting more twisty with every post, but it's still a lot of gut. Percy's answer re: linking doesn't completely satisfy me, but it's about the towniest I could expect from him. I likely won't be shifting my vote to him.

Need more data from Seol and Konowa.

P.S. Re: SC's vote on me, note the potential chainsaw action as regards Percy.

[Percy]

I am saying, fairly clearly "not committing to a wagon when you have previously stated that there is an alignment link is bullshit."

I've already stated how I wasn't linking alignments. I'm not going over it again.

Now, what in the hell am I being accused of revising?

How about you read my posts? That would be just awesome.

Or, you know, just explain what you meant by this comment:

As for the other: look at who his two TOTALLY town reads are. Yea.

Thus my "crying wolf" when it was a very specific set of questions about what I thought about the process that were answered and then you lept in with "NOTHING TO SEE HERE NO SIR"

What "process"?
Also, crying wolf still doesn't apply, whatever you originally meant. How does shutting down setup speculation (which is what I unapologetically did) equate with "crying wolf"?
Discussing setup in a theme game is usually a bad idea, as it leads to bad assumptions and mislynches. Setup discussion is for endgame.

However, it was pretty apparent that the general air of the town was flowing towards him being a lynch.

And I guess scum had

no part

in pushing his wagon to this point

Would lynch SpyreX or StrangerCoug.

@StrangerCoug

: Elaborate on your reasons for voting ML.

I'm torn about Seol. I get a townvibe from him when I read him in ISO, but I much preferred his D1 play (before Neto's claim) to his D2 play. He needs to post asap.

@Seol

: Are you arguing that one of your motivations for switching to Netopalis was to prevent Boxman from being forced to claim too?

[Iecerint]

Agh, this is too stressful. I retract my preference for a Seol lynch.

Unvote

. I'm still between SC and Seol, but I'm not convinced of who I think should claim.

[SpyreX]

I've already stated how I wasn't linking alignments. I'm not going over it again.

And I've already stated how no matter how you want to cut that you are. So, I'm fine with not going over it again.

How about you read my posts? That would be just awesome.

We've already proven I'm slow. Do we really have to go into my inability to read as well? I had to have this dictated to me by a dancing bear, afterall.

Show me what I've revised. With posts. And explanations.

As for the other: look at who his two TOTALLY town reads are. Yea.

I've been pretty clear about thinking you and Seol are scum together. So, with the minimal amount of actual interaction its more than a little telling that Seol is your A++ BFF totally town buddy.

But, of course, can't be THAT obvious and have him be the only one. So, what to do? Ohh, I know, pick someone who has actively been town!

What "process"?
Also, crying wolf still doesn't apply, whatever you originally meant. How does shutting down setup speculation (which is what I unapologetically did) equate with "crying wolf"?
Discussing setup in a theme game is usually a bad idea, as it leads to bad assumptions and mislynches. Setup discussion is for endgame.

Elvis asked me about my thought process regarding the mafia and power roles. I explained my thought process.

Then, you came in with some anecdotal evidence to say it was a BAD THING TM (note, I am not basing my lynch choices on that speculation nor was elvis - it was a question regarding my thought process).

When, of course, not a peep was mentioned when people started talking about SK's. Huh.

So, yea, you're crying wolf. Or, a better anaology would be chicken-littleing. The sky isn't falling.

And I guess scum had no part in pushing his wagon to this point

Maybe. Maybe not. However, that series of events that went down at the end of it after nets claim are totally nutso.

Actually, I am barking up the wrong tree at the moment:

Unvote, Vote Seol

.

If he flips scum you might as well spend all night working on your fakeclaim because you are dead.

----

And, yea, I'm doing the final piece of my little callout that no one wanted to bite on:

Its obvious I'm a doublevoter. Now, OHH HELL MORE SETUP SPECULATION, but I'd love to see a mini with a scum doublevoter. Now, yea, yea I sure could be a third party but unless someone is gonna go "Yea I totally gave a doublevote to the guy who was in the process of being replaced" well...

(Note, I'm NOT saying this IS what my role is, just that I'm pretty sure it is MY role doing it).

So, what pair of players are camped there?
Who has that player called out?
Hmm, its a mystery, isn't it.

Note: I saw Ice's unvote. This wasn't OHH NOES Secrete Hammer.

[Percy]

Wow.

Not only did he not wait for a claim OR for a defence from Seol (the last time Seol posted he had

two votes

, ffs), he also didn't wait until deadline OR until everyone had stated their scum suspects.

Note that StrangerCoug was hitting a lot of people's scumdars, and he hadn't stated his list of suspects. I really thought we were proceeding towards an SC lynch - at least, I think it's pretty apparent given the general air.

This hammer vote of SpyreX's is saturated scumminess, and I think he's the scumteam with SC.

That part of his post below "----" is probably SpyreX's attempt to prepare himself for a Seol townflip - "Hey guys, in case you hadn't gotten it through your thick skulls (*chortle*) I'm totally a double voter, and it would be totally crazy if I was a

scum

doublevoter hey. So yeah, I'm town."

I would say that possessing two votes is a skill that is fairly independent of alignment, and I think it's rather telling that he put an argument like this in his anti-town hammer post.

@SpyreX

: If Seol flips scum, then I'll be ready to defend my position. You want to lynch me? Go ahead and try. But you'd better be ready if he flips town, because this hammer stinks a lot worse than the vote you're lynching Seol for.

[StrangerCoug]

@StrangerCoug

: Elaborate on your reasons for voting ML.

He misrepresented you by saying you said that if Boxman were town, it follows that Netopalis would be scum. It didn't necessarily, and I didn't interpret anything you said as such. I'm not going to repeat what you said ten million times.

[elvis_knits]

...

Seol is not lynched.

My vote has been on Seol for a bit, so that's one. Iecerint voted Seol then unvoted. So back to one. Spyrex puts two more on Seol, so that's three.

Seol is L-2. He is not lynched.