Mini 857 Disney Movie Mafia 2 - The Classics (Roll Credits)

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Gorrad (2) - StrangerCoug, Kublai Khan
Starbuck (1) - Jazzmyn
StrangerCoug (1) - Crazy
Jazzmyn (1) - semioldguy
curiouskarmagod (1) - Gorrad

Not Voting (2) - curiouskarmagod, Starbuck

Deadlin is still Saturday, Noon PST

[Gorrad]

To prove I've got SOMETHING:

For conveniance's sake, I will not be pointing out anything regarding dead players unless it relates to an alive player.

33: I still say this is scummy. Brandi's doing an obvious fencesitting ploy here, not taking a solid stand.

59: Crazy seems to be in the wrong here. 60 points it out well.

76: Early VC. Five votes on MM. All five are still alive. Not much help here.

78: Scratch that. Jazz was on the MM wagon, but withdrew this late in it. Much town points.

114: Bad vibes off this. Seems to be just a placeholder 'let's lynch this guy' post.

135/6: Have some truth to them. Semioldguy was doing serious lurking, and was on the MM wagon.

171: Interesting use of words. "I got us out of RVS". I'd...say town points for Starbuck.

225: Another VC, still five votes on MM. One of them is Fuzzy-scum. I'd put money on there being another scum on there. (Starbuck, SC, Crazy, Semi)

237: Semi's post is full of fail. You call this a case on MM? Seriously?

257: Also full of fail. I really don't like Brandi's play here.

261: I like this one. No real town points, but I like it.

263: Considering Semi's tunneling at this point, I find it hypocritical he's asking for KMD's full list.

More to come today. Also, it should be noted that early D2 when I stated suspicion of Starbuck, I was being tired and stupid. I had swapped Brandi and Starbuck mentally, and didn't catch my mistake until this reread.

[StrangerCoug]

Hey, Gorrad, the last post where you told us your thoughts about anything was #939, and that's me being lenient on you. Are you really that far behind?

[curiouskarmadog]

posting will be spotty the next couple of days (holiday)

[Gorrad]

Hey, Gorrad, the last post where you told us your thoughts about anything was #939, and that's me being lenient on you. Are you really that far behind?

Yes.

[StrangerCoug]

Mod: I anticipate a very hectic next couple of days with Thanksgiving business.

[Kublai Khan]

Hey, Gorrad, the last post where you told us your thoughts about anything was #939, and that's me being lenient on you. Are you really that far behind?

Yes.

Wait... You've been in the game from the start and the replacements (curiouskarmadog & I) are waiting on *you* to get caught up?

[Crazy]

Eh, mostly wondering why Starbuck didn't answer the questions I asked her. The fact that she ignored my questions to her and instead focused on my Gorrad vote doesn't sit well with me.

The tone in these sentences is incredibly evasive. Why would you say "I wonder why Starbuck didn't answer my questions" instead of "Starbuck, please answer my questions?"

@Gorrad - You seem interested in dissecting the Monkey wagon, yet you were on it at one point. Why does that make sense?

Btw, I will still stand by that Monkey was very scummy. My post #114 that you're worried about; however, was incorrect, since Monkey did come back to the thread.

[Crazy]

And ckd, I must say it annoys me that you're automatically dismissing any flavor argument with a flick of the wrist. I've said it so many times - flavor can't help deduce alignment, but it can help deduce roles! And Buzz Lightyear - Vanilla Townie works excellently!

[Gorrad]

Monkey was scummy. This does not excuse the fact that he was town. Town wagons are to be analyzed, just as any other.

[Starbuck]

Hey, Gorrad, the last post where you told us your thoughts about anything was #939, and that's me being lenient on you. Are you really that far behind?

Yes.

Wait... You've been in the game from the start and the replacements (curiouskarmadog & I) are waiting on *you* to get caught up?

QFT.

This makes me feel like you really are just floating along.

Vote: Gorrad

[Kublai Khan]

My neutral leaning scummy read was based on residual scumminess from the player slot that fuzzylightning left, yet I was not able to get a read on Neopi. None of his posts were hardly more than a single sentence and the newness of the player prevented a good read.

But isn't the fact that his posts are unreadable a read in itself? If I read a scummy read on fuzzylightning, I just can't fathom how an unreadable newb could possibly lessen that read.

I really don't feel I was pressuring him. As I said to Jazzmyn, at that point, a watcher/tracker combo could have been a good possibility. I was throwing out what I was thinking because any and all information helps the town. If my idea was far fetched, I expected that it would have been shot down. When really it wasn't until Day 2 when Monkey flipped as his claim.

You also saw that at the end of the day that my vote WAS NOT on Monkey. It was on Neopi, who was the person I found to be the scummiest. I only have one vote and I placed it on the scummiest person in my eyes.

Well, after I read the game I re-read the last few days of Day 1 in io for everyone. You did have your vote on Neopi (action) but all your posts (words) were engaging MonkeyMan576 and his shenanigans. My main issue is that your actions didn't match up to your words.

Your vote was not on MonkeyMan576, but you were set to easily switch your vote over to him without having to look like you had a drastic GF-saving change of mind.

Eh, mostly wondering why Starbuck didn't answer the questions I asked her. The fact that she ignored my questions to her and instead focused on my Gorrad vote doesn't sit well with me.

The tone in these sentences is incredibly evasive. Why would you say "I wonder why Starbuck didn't answer my questions" instead of "Starbuck, please answer my questions?"

WTF? That's pretty cheap and scummy of you Crazy. You quote my response in Post 1119 and dissect it as scummy without acknowledging what I was responding to.

In context, curiouskarmadog asked me what I was doing, what my plans were for this game. And I replied that I was waiting on Starbuck. I was not addressing Starbuck directly but I was hoping to lightly prod her (which worked, BTW).

[Gorrad]

Hey, Gorrad, the last post where you told us your thoughts about anything was #939, and that's me being lenient on you. Are you really that far behind?

Yes.

Wait... You've been in the game from the start and the replacements (curiouskarmadog & I) are waiting on *you* to get caught up?

QFT.

This makes me feel like you really are just floating along.

Vote: Gorrad

Hold on now, you have to explain to me how that's scummy. I'm not lurking, I'm genuinely behind. It's not like I'm seeing everything and just not commenting, I'm just busy as sin.

[Crazy]

WTF? That's pretty cheap and scummy of you Crazy. You quote my response in Post 1119 and dissect it as scummy without acknowledging what I was responding to.

In context, curiouskarmadog asked me what I was doing, what my plans were for this game. And I replied that I was waiting on Starbuck. I was not addressing Starbuck directly but I was hoping to lightly prod her (which worked, BTW).

I understand the context, but that doesn't seem to be a big deal for me. I suppose what bothers me more is that you never actually asked Starbuck to answer your questions. (For me, I tend towards this behavior when I'm scum, which is why I'm asking.)

You asked all your questions on November 22nd. If you actually did care, then why did it take you until November 25th to ask Starbuck why she hadn't answered your questions?

Starbuck even responded immediately to your vote on Gorrad - why didn't you ask her then?

[Starbuck]

Hey, Gorrad, the last post where you told us your thoughts about anything was #939, and that's me being lenient on you. Are you really that far behind?

Yes.

Wait... You've been in the game from the start and the replacements (curiouskarmadog & I) are waiting on *you* to get caught up?

QFT.

This makes me feel like you really are just floating along.

Vote: Gorrad

Hold on now, you have to explain to me how that's scummy. I'm not lurking, I'm genuinely behind. It's not like I'm seeing everything and just not commenting, I'm just busy as sin.

Everyone else that was floating along has been replaced. You've had ample time. The replacements caught up 40 something pages before you came back to the thread.

Also, you said that you had a case on me. I went back and read and found that you really didn't.

You are lurking and being very anti-town. You have been scummy and there's no denying that.

I feel you are the best lynch for today.

[Kublai Khan]

I understand the context, but that doesn't seem to be a big deal for me. I suppose what bothers me more is that you never actually asked Starbuck to answer your questions. (For me, I tend towards this behavior when I'm scum, which is why I'm asking.)

Why did the source of what bothers you change from my tone to the delay in prodding Starbuck to answer?

You asked all your questions on November 22nd. If you actually did care, then why did it take you until November 25th to ask Starbuck why she hadn't answered your questions?

Starbuck even responded immediately to your vote on Gorrad - why didn't you ask her then?

She stated that she was preparing for a memorial service. And she was so distracted that she missed an entire paragraph of my post. I figured it could wait.

[semioldguy]

My neutral leaning scummy read was based on residual scumminess from the player slot that fuzzylightning left, yet I was not able to get a read on Neopi. None of his posts were hardly more than a single sentence and the newness of the player prevented a good read.

But isn't the fact that his posts are unreadable a read in itself? If I read a scummy read on fuzzylightning, I just can't fathom how an unreadable newb could possibly lessen that read.

Not necessarily. Hindsight can make a lot of things look more clear than they were initially.

[Crazy]

Why did the source of what bothers you change from my tone to the delay in prodding Starbuck to answer?

It's all kind of the same. It's either "You never asked her directly" or "You only asked her indirectly."

She stated that she was preparing for a memorial service. And she was so distracted that she missed an entire paragraph of my post. I figured it could wait.

Uhh, you mentioned her "focusing on the Gorrad vote" as scummy.

Eh, mostly wondering why Starbuck didn't answer the questions I asked her. The fact that

she ignored my questions to her and instead focused on my Gorrad vote doesn't sit well with me.

Did it only occur to you that that was scummy 3 days later, or did you just neglect to mention it for 3 days?

[Gorrad]

Last sentence of 1126, Starbuck ><

I'm on V/LA until Sunday. This will be the only game where it'll be noticed, as I've caught up in everything else, but tomorrow I'm throwing a party, and the day after I go out of town for a job interview.

[Kublai Khan]

Why did the source of what bothers you change from my tone to the delay in prodding Starbuck to answer?

It's all kind of the same. It's either "You never asked her directly" or "You only asked her indirectly."

I don't see it as being the same. The directness/indirectness of my tone and the length of time that passed before the comment are two distinctly different things.

Did it only occur to you that that was scummy 3 days later, or did you just neglect to mention it for 3 days?

When curiouskarmadog asked what my plan was for this game, I thought about it. I went back and looked at who answered the questions I asked and who didn't. That's when I noticed that Starbuck hadn't answered. That's when I prodded for an answer.

So my answer is that it only occurred to me 3 days later that her behavior was scummy.

[Starbuck]

So the fact that I missed your questions because you had a super long post but answered them as soon as you made mention, gives me no merit in your eyes then?

I didn't refuse to answer them as you are eluding to.

[Crazy]

When curiouskarmadog asked what my plan was for this game, I thought about it. I went back and looked at who answered the questions I asked and who didn't. That's when I noticed that Starbuck hadn't answered. That's when I prodded for an answer.

So my answer is that it only occurred to me 3 days later that her behavior was scummy.

But couldn't you understand that because she was preparing for a memorial at the time?

[curiouskarmadog]

holiday is over on the most part should be getting to this today or tomorrow.

[Kublai Khan]

So the fact that I missed your questions because you had a super long post but answered them as soon as you made mention, gives me no merit in your eyes then?

I didn't refuse to answer them as you are eluding to.

What?? *facepalms*

I never said you didn't answer them. Crazy is asking why I didn't pressure you to answer my questions in the 3 days between the time I asked them and when I mentioned that you hadn't.

And my post wasn't super-long. It was longish but organized by having the subject of each paragraph underlined for easy navigation.

But couldn't you understand that because she was preparing for a memorial at the time?

Look, I sorta understand where you're coming from, but you've got it wrong. The person I'm focusing on, who I think is scum, is Gorrad. In the three days after I posted my questions, I wasn't really checking if Starbuck was answering. I was checking for Gorrad's reaction to my vote. When curiouskarmadog asked what I was waiting for I did a quick check to see who answered my questions and who didn't. Everyone had answered except for Starbuck--whose only reaction to my catch-up post was to try to note that my vote on Gorrad was without a case. So that's why she got a follow-up prod from me.

You ready to come down from Mt. Molehill?

[Jazzmyn]

It is not my place to reveal something about another player's role, but there are only a couple of hours until deadline, and if I say nothing, I think that a town power role is going to be lynched, without being able to do anything to save himself since he's posted that he's V/LA until Sunday.

I think that Gorrad is a town power role. This is because I got an "Event" message from the GM at the beginning of Day 2 about something that occurred during Night 1, and then Gorrad hinted at the beginning of Day 2 that it was his doing.

I don't know what Gorrad's actual role is, but if it was him who was responsible for the Night 1 Event that I was informed of by the GM, then I take from the nature of the Event that he is a PR.

If those of you voting him unvote him, he can probably be protected overnight. If you don't, then I think we will have given the scum a PR death unnecessarily.

I realize that some of you think I'm scummy and think that Gorrad and I are scum partners because of a "connection" between us. I also realize that posting this to try to save him may add to that impression, but it is entirely wrong. You can see that I was suspicious of Gorrad on Day 1, and not on Day 2. This is because of the Event that occurred on Night 1. It is that Event that changed my mind about him, and that Event is the "connection" that you see between us.

The fact is that I'm town, and I have good reason to believe that Gorrad is a town PR, so I want to try to save him because it appears that he won't be here to try to save himself.

I realize, as I said at the outset, that it is not my place to reveal something about another player's role, but in these unusual circumstances, I feel I have no choice. If I do nothing, Gorrad will be lynched and when he flips PR, I would be criticized tomorrow for doing nothing to prevent his lynch. If I do something, which I am doing, I paint a great big target on my own back if you don't believe me and think I'm scum trying to save a scum-partner.

So, I'm kind of in a damned if I do and damned if I don't situation, but I think that it is best for the town if I try to save a PR, even if it exposes me to suspicion.

I urge those of you voting for Gorrad to unvote him, and place a vote elsewhere. If you believe me, you shouldn't vote for me. If you don't believe me, then I guess you should either vote for me or leave your vote on Gorrad, but both of the latter choices will still be wrong.

Regards,
Jazz