Mini 885 - Boom, Game Gutshot/Abandoned by Mod!

[Evilgorrilaz]

Gone until this weekend for thanksgiving =p

[A_Squirrel]

@rite and hitogoroshi:
Same question for both of you. What makes you think 5cvm is a townie screwing around?

[ConfidAnon]

I think it's important to distinguish between alignment and action. A townie can act anti-town, and this is I think what 5cvm is doing. As I said before (which is more or less what rite also just said right above me) I think 5cvm is just some townie who thinks they are OMG SO EPIC for pulling A SUPER L33T GAMBIT!!! But regardless of this he is derailing the whole game and I'm about two more pages of drivel away from voting him just so he shuts up.

QFT


Sorry for not having much content . . . but really nothing of worth for me to comment on right now.

[TheButtonmen]

Gone until this weekend for thanksgiving =p

To be honest I hadn't even realized you were in the game. I'd love to see more out of you and magisterrain.... and by more I mean something other then /confirm and Ill post later.

Anyways, who else find's Aranfan really scummy?

What makes you think 5cvm is a townie screwing around?

I assume town because he hasn't had any scum tells yet*

*Sounds crazy i know but Milkshake(5cvms main) clearly made the 5cvm to fuck around, I think his terribad playstyle is likely independent of his alignment.

[A_Squirrel]

What makes you think 5cvm is a townie screwing around?

I assume town because he hasn't had any scum tells yet*

*Sounds crazy i know but Milkshake(5cvms main) clearly made the 5cvm to fuck around, I think his terribad playstyle is likely independent of his alignment.

Thanks for answering the question, but I wasn't really looking for an answer from you. =P

But, if you would do me a favor and answer these:

@ A_

Squirrel

, Xvart vote for you is what caught my interest, it seemed like a nonrandom vote and I didn't like the reasoning.

Why did you use

Then clearly this means I must join the voting game and bus him!

as your reason for voting him?

What did you think about the random.org coincidence?

Why didn't you say anything about his reasoning?

[TheButtonmen]

Why did you use

Then clearly this means I must join the voting game and bus him!

as your reason for voting him?

Why didn't you say anything about his reasoning?

Because saying I'm voting for you to see how you react to it, doesn't get very good results.

[xvart]

Because saying I'm voting for you to see how you react to it, doesn't get very good results.

So... Why haven't you provided any analysis since I gave you a "reaction"? Yes, you said my post count increased and length increased (oh, and that I didn't specifically mention

the

votes themselves); but you haven't said anything about whether you find that scummy, townie, or neither. Typically when someone is posting to get a reaction wouldn't they then comment on the reaction?

xvart.

[rite]

@rite and hitogoroshi:
Same question for both of you. What makes you think 5cvm is a townie screwing around?

Nothing too much more than gut instinct and thinking about the situation. Something about his gleefulness and straight face makes me think this was planned out (by him), and he thinks he's doing something much more revolutionary than he is.

The revelation that he's just a dummy account for someone else increases my suspicion that he's just a townie.

For the record (if we want to spend more time on this), what are the other options?

-he's scum "screwing around," that is, he thinks this is strategy or he's just a goofball
-he's scum with some posting restriction/game mechanic making him do this (unlikely in a normal game, right?)
-he's a jester trying to get killed (I personally feel like he would have changed his strategy by now, but perhaps not)
-he's pro-town with some strange posting restriction/game mechanic (again, unlikely in a normal game)

anything I'm missing? it's been a few years since I've played, I'm a little rusty.

in any case, out of those options, I feel like him being a townie screwball is most likely, but I'm open to be persuaded otherwise.

[ConfidAnon]

So... Why haven't you provided any analysis since I gave you a "reaction"? Yes, you said my post count increased and length increased (oh, and that I didn't specifically mention the votes themselves); but you haven't said anything about whether you find that scummy, townie, or neither. Typically when someone is posting to get a reaction wouldn't they then comment on the reaction?

xvart.

This is a good point.

-he's scum "screwing around," that is, he thinks this is strategy or he's just a goofball
-he's scum with some posting restriction/game mechanic making him do this (unlikely in a normal game, right?)
-he's a jester trying to get killed (I personally feel like he would have changed his strategy by now, but perhaps not)
-he's pro-town with some strange posting restriction/game mechanic (again, unlikely in a normal game)

I've seen a post restriction in a mini normal game (then again, I wouldn't classify it entirely normal because there were no vanillas, my role was a

Delayed

Serial Killer and a CULT won!)

[ChiboSempai]

Tbh I think we're spending a bit too much time on the 5cvm case, though some new tidbits about it have arisen. The fact that it's an alt account for someone else possibly just used to mess around is interesting (and it really pisses me off if that is true) but there's no way we can just auto confirm a role from him out of this since there technically is no proof from him about this. Even if 5cvm we're to flat out say himself that the account is an alt made to just mess around, how would we be expected to believe him on that without believing his other claims that he really is mafia and so and so are the mafia. Can't believe one claim can't believe another.

Regardless of what he actually is, for the possibility that he could be a Jester (which is a possibility from his actions), it's just safer to not lynch him today and wait for more information.

[ConfidAnon]

This thread needs less jester, more scumhuntying.

Unvote, Vote: ChiboSempai

[ChiboSempai]

As for sparking some more not-5cvm discussion, since it's hard to work off nothing (since it's early in Day 1) how about some questions for people.

From my personally, first some questions for Aranfan (since he's who I'm voting atm)

1. Have you ever played as an independent role in a mafia game? If so, and it's the type of indie that wins by being the sole survivor, what did you do to try and stay alive at all costs? If you haven't been one before, if you were an indie with the win condition of being a sole survivor - what would be your basic plan of action?
2. Could you please explain your quote "Although the question occurs as to who gets first place if the Jester lynched as the final anti-town faction." a bit better, as the second half sort of confuses me. Do you mean if the Jester is lynched after the mafia is already taken out?
3. Judging by what I quoted, you deem the Jester to be an anti-town role (obviously though), but why exactly do you think so?
4. Let's say you were scum and someone claimed in the game that he knew you were scum. You know everyone in your alignment however and you know that they certainly are not scum, and he got a lucky guess in claiming you. How do you react?

And some more generic questions. Randomly selecting 3 people from the 12. Random.org gave me...
A_Squirrel, ConfidAnon, and 5cvm (damnit lol)
1. What's your favorite type of role to play as out of Vanilla Townie, Town Power Role, or Mafia?
2. Day is coming close to an end early on in the game (D1 or D2 I'd say) and if majority isn't reached the decision goes to No Lynch. Do you continue on with the No Lynch or push to lynch someone, whoever it might be. Perhaps you could target someone who has been inactive and coasting, or perhaps some other random quality.
3. About how many games of mafia have you played in?

[TheButtonmen]

@ ChiboSempai

There is no question as to wether or not 5cvm is a alt, he posted in the thread under that account (Milkshake), got the mod to delete it and then posted it under 5cvm.

@xvart

I didn't talk about your reaction?

As for his reaction, there was a large increase in his post count / length since the votes were placed on him, yet oddly enough in those posts he never mentioned the votes directly.

And do I think they are scummy / towny / neither?

Are you suggesting that it is a negative that I did not mention the votes?

@ xvart Nope, I used the term odd on purpose

[ChiboSempai]

EBWOP, the last post was ninja'd by Confid and I didn't see it until I finished and posted my last thing.

[ChiboSempai]

@TheButtonMen: I'm not questioning whether or not 5cvm is an alt, I was questioning if the alt's purpose was to just mess around and perhaps not play serious, and instead act crazy like he is now.

[TheButtonmen]

@TheButtonMen: I'm not questioning whether or not 5cvm is an alt, I was questioning if the alt's purpose was to just mess around and perhaps not play serious, and instead act crazy like he is now.

@ ChiboSempai

, 5cvm is acting in equal parts terribad and dumbtarded, judging by the quick read through I took of Milkshakes other games, that is not his regular playing style. Thus clearly the alt is for playstyle reasons.

[xvart]

@xvart

I didn't talk about your reaction?

As for his reaction, there was a large increase in his post count / length since the votes were placed on him, yet oddly enough in those posts he never mentioned the votes directly.

Oh, okay. So the reaction you were trying to elicit from me was specific to most posting frequency and posting length? And whether or not I would specifically mention the votes themselves? You didn't care about whether I would go off the deep end and OMGUS you? Did you expect me to shy away and back peddle (I would think you would have a great grasp of back peddling since you seem to be so well versed in it)?

Do you really think my increased posting and posting length was based on your vote?

And do I think they are scummy / towny / neither?

Are you suggesting that it is a negative that I did not mention the votes?

@ xvart Nope, I used the term odd on purpose

So you only think it was odd that I didn't mention the votes? Nothing about my post length or my post frequency? No read on the

content

of my posts?

----

Let me review our interactions:

You voted for me with what appears to be a joke about bussing:

Ammendment to the previous post.

Xvart and TheButtonmen are the scum.

Then clearly this means I must join the voting game and bus him!

Vote Xvart

You then asked about what someone else thought of me:

B) Question @

Seregil

any thoughts on

Xvart

so far?

Question: why did you ask Seregil of all people? He was pretty inactive at the time.

A couple of things, first of all the vote for

Xvart

was done because at the time he seemed the scummiest (note, the scummiest not I thought he was scum) and wanted to see his reaction.

Then when questioned about your vote, you said it was because I was the scummiest

AND

because you wanted to gauge a reaction. You went out of your way to make sure it was clear that it was not because you thought I was scum, but because I was the scummiest. Just in case you did get the bandwagon rolling on me and caused a mislynch?

In the very next post you then said:

@ A_

Squirrel

, Xvart vote for you is what caught my interest, it seemed like a nonrandom vote and I didn't like the reasoning.

My vote

was

a non random vote. I stated my reason. Thanks for posting the obvious.

So you voted for me because:

1. I was the scummiest player;
   
2. My vote was non random and you didn't like the reason; and,
   
3. You wanted to get a reaction (about my post length and post count, and whether or not I mentioned the actual votes).

Here is some commentary on your behavior as I see it:

1. You voted for me because it was opportunistic since I already had one nonsense vote (5cvm);
   
2. You attempted to get some more support and you never followed up on it (because he didn't think I was scummy, perhaps?); and,
   
3. You claimed your vote was for an obviously bogus reason (reaction) that you never commented on.

Did I miss anything?

Vote: TheButtonmen

And I will be judging your responses on content, not posting frequency and length.

xvart.

[TheButtonmen]

So the reaction you were trying to elicit from me was specific to most posting frequency and posting length? And whether or not I would specifically mention the votes themselves? You didn't care about whether I would go off the deep end and OMGUS you? Did you expect me to shy away and back peddle(I would think you would have a great grasp of back peddling since you seem to be so well versed in it)?

If I knew how you were going to react, why would I fish for a reaction? Hell if I knew how you would react why would I then say how you reacted was odd?

Also you spend half your post discussing my thoughts on your reaction then you say this , also nice Ad Hominem by the way with the back peddling.

You claimed your vote was for an obviously bogus reason (reaction) that you never commented on.

So make up your mind how you want to attack me

Question: why did you ask Seregil of all people? He was pretty inactive at the time.

You answered you own question there.

[TheButtonmen]

EBWOP: I hit submit rather then preview when checking quote tags were correct.

So you voted for me because:

1. I was the scummiest player;
   
2. My vote was non random and you didn't like the reason; and,
   
3. You wanted to get a reaction (about my post length and post count, and whether or not I mentioned the actual votes).

Here is some commentary on your behavior as I see it:

1. You voted for me because it was opportunistic since I already had one nonsense vote (5cvm);
   
2. You attempted to get some more support and you never followed up on it (because he didn't think I was scummy, perhaps?); and,
   
3. You claimed your vote was for an obviously bogus reason (reaction) that you never commented on.

Now then;

I voted for you because I felt you were the scummiest at the time and because I wanted to see your reaction, I felt and still feel is that vote was serious it's based on a poor reason. Anything else if you putting words in my mouth.

And when did I attempt to get more support to get you wagoned, at the time I voted for you there was 5cvm's vote on you and he was changing votes at a stupid rate thats hardly wagoning. And asking another player what they though of you to try to get them to participate more again is not waggoing I didn't ask them to vote for you or present them with a case for you being scum.

And your third observation does not make sense to me, you think looking for reactions obviously bogus? And saying that I never commented on it is a straight up lie.

[xvart]

If I knew how you were going to react, why would I fish for a reaction? Hell if I knew how you would react why would I then say how you reacted was odd?

My point is the reaction you were looking for was post length, post count, and the specific mention of the votes against me. Your "commentary" on my reaction, which you fished for, was that my lack of mentioning the votes against me was odd? You have nothing to say about my post count and my post length and whether or not those are indicative of scum or town?

I guess my other question that I didn't make clear was to ask you if were you at all curious about the content of my "reaction" or the tone or the presentation when you were fishing for it?

So make up your mind how you want to attack me

I guess I didn't realize that I'm only limited in my questioning to one topic area?

Question: why did you ask Seregil of all people? He was pretty inactive at the time.

You answered you own question there.

Your right, I did. Then let me ask this, if you were trying to get him involved, why did you only ask him about me?

And when did I attempt to get more support to get you wagoned, at the time I voted for you there was 5cvm's vote on you and he was changing votes at a stupid rate thats hardly wagoning. And asking another player what they though of you to try to get them to participate more again is not waggoing I didn't ask them to vote for you or present them with a case for you being scum.

You're absolutely right about the 5cvm wagon. My apologies. I just found it curious that you only asked Seregil about me, and then didn't respond to his comments; especially since they were contrary to your own suspicions. Or did you only want to get him involved and didn't really care what he said?

And your third observation does not make sense to me, you think looking for reactions obviously bogus? And saying that I never commented on it is a straight up lie.

No, I think fishing for reactions is most certainly not bogus. What I think is bogus is basing scum/town alignment during a reaction fishing session on post length and post count, especially early in the game. Granted, that may have some manner of credibility, but only coupled with tone, content, and presentation.

How would you have felt if I continued to post at the same level I had been? Would you have been better able to hypothesize on my alignment or lack of alignment? What would that alignment have been? I can't possibly imagine a successful reaction fishing session based on post length and post count alone.

xvart.

[Aranfan]

As for sparking some more not-5cvm discussion, since it's hard to work off nothing (since it's early in Day 1) how about some questions for people.

From my personally, first some questions for Aranfan (since he's who I'm voting atm)

Glad to answer.

1. Have you ever played as an independent role in a mafia game? If so, and it's the type of indie that wins by being the sole survivor, what did you do to try and stay alive at all costs? If you haven't been one before, if you were an indie with the win condition of being a sole survivor - what would be your basic plan of action?

I haven't, so I can't say for sure, but I'd probably try to be unobtrusive. Contributing to the town but not enough to stand out to the factions with a nightkill. That kind of thing.

Although I don't see the relevance to this game.

2. Could you please explain your quote "Although the question occurs as to who gets first place if the Jester lynched as the final anti-town faction." a bit better, as the second half sort of confuses me. Do you mean if the Jester is lynched after the mafia is already taken out?

Yeah, or if there's also an SK then after both the Mafia and SK are dead.

3. Judging by what I quoted, you deem the Jester to be an anti-town role (obviously though), but why exactly do you think so?

Because it can take the win away from the Town, but mainly because it's goal is to cause a mislynch.

4. Let's say you were scum and someone claimed in the game that he knew you were scum. You know everyone in your alignment however and you know that they certainly are not scum, and he got a lucky guess in claiming you. How do you react?

I would probably question and attack the basis for his "knowledge". Of course, that's my standard MO when I have time to concentrate on game regardless of faction. Although, as noted above, I won't actually know until I encounter such a situation.

[TheButtonmen]

My point is the reaction you were looking for was post length, post count, and the specific mention of the votes against me.

Quote?

[xvart]

My point is the reaction you were looking for was post length, post count, and the specific mention of the votes against me.

Quote?

No problem. I asked you:

So... Why haven't you provided any analysis since I gave you a "reaction"?

Your response:

@xvart

I didn't talk about your reaction?

As for his reaction, there was a large increase in his post count / length since the votes were placed on him, yet oddly enough in those posts he never mentioned the votes directly.

If you were looking for something else you never posted it. When asked about your observations of my reaction, you directed me to your observations of my post count, my post length, and the lack of me mentioning the specific votes.

xvart.

[A_Squirrel]

Okay, I'm not going to wait for hitogoroshi since I just want to comment on something about 5cvm that's been bothering me. I originally asked rite and hitogoroshi since they both said they thought 5cvm was a townie screwing around. Afterwards, ConfidAnon and Buttonmen also voiced the same opinion.
Now, we pretty much know 5cvm is an alt; milkshake posted in the thread right before 5cvm and both of them said the same thing. If you look at milkshake's posts, he's pretty normal. But if you look at 5cvm's posts, everything is just screwing around. So if in fact the account was made to mess around, I feel as if his play style would be independent of his actual role. Since regardless of what he is, I can't think of anything that he could have done to jerk us around more.
If we agree that his style is independent, then the problem is that since everyone had the same chance of being scum when roles were being decided, there is a chance that he is scum which everyone seems to be glossing over. Yes, it's unlikely, but you still have to keep it in mind since with the way he's playing, he isn't really giving us much information.

@Confidanon: Was the game with PRs and weird roles here?

@Chibosempai:
1) I've only played here once, so I don't have that great of an idea how certain roles play. However, I'd guess that I'd enjoy playing as either a vanilla townie or mafia goon.
2)Assuming there have been no other no lynches, I'd try to push for a lynch, though a no lynch is acceptable (it doesn't change the number of lynches town gets). However, what it does do is move one lynch from the beginning to the very end where scum votes hold more power (since there are fewer people in general). Given that there's not much time, I doubt I'd be able to start and finish another wagon, so I'd have to vote for the person who I felt was scummiest and could actually get lynched.
3)Forum mafia, this would be my...second.

@Buttonmen: You wanted to get a response from Xvart. So you joke voted Xvart, when he had already responded to 5cvm's joke vote? O.o

[hitogoroshi]

Sorry about the absence; I had a car ride from Lincoln, Nebraska to the Twin Cities yesterday. By the time I arrived I was in no condition to make a coherent post. However, I do have internet and I will be active over break here.

I think 5cvm is a townie screwing around because there's really no incentive to scum to act as he is and I'm inclined to be very skeptical of initial jester claims. But as squirrel says, rightly, a townie or scum playing this way look more or less similar and so while I'm inclined to think 5cvm is a townie I also know that we can't really turn this into an acceptable way to play.

@Everyone else: You are all over reacting. I only skimmed your walls to text but I am sure that such long posts are completely unnecessary on page 6. I am playing a 25 person game right now and it works just fine with a 750 wc limit. Please try to tone it down, mkay?