California Trilogy: City of Angels - Off Stage (Game Over)

[Talilan]

But if there was a possibility of another alignment, I would certainly look at things differently. Talilan could not get a free pass for KY Krew's actions anymore, for instance.

There's always a possibility of another alignment. We don't want a free pass. Judge Talilan on Talilan's play.
We aren't playing particularly well, but we are playing sincerely.

DGB I never understood your onstage plan and did not feel comfortable going ahead with something that vague. SL charged ahead with his plan before we could resolve that.

Thesp I am trying to figure out how it went so terribly wrong in that scene too. If we believe that we were knowingly steered to a 'very bad' I think we have to agree that there were more than just one scum on stage.

BTW, Thesp why did you not give any thought or attention to lynching StarKiss?
zu_Faul, why did you not give any thought or attention to lynching StarKiss?

~Tal

[Mighty Orbots]

I agree with this 1000% - Mighty Orbots, why didn't you ask about 41?

Is this a serious question? We had consensus on-screen for me to check hewitt. Why are you trying to spin this against me?

How is this significant? In what way will it change how you play? I'm serious - I want an answer here. (Same question to Mighty Orbots.)

Two reasons. One, I'm trying to figure out the mechanics behind this information, since it may be significant to the rapidly approaching endgame. Second, two smaller scumgroups means there is less coordination available to them.

I'm really puzzled why some people are just ignoring CKD. Many Bothans died to bring us this information.

I'm uncomfortable with Talilan, and I have lurking concerns about ShadowLurker that aren't going away.

Are you suggesting ShadowLurker posted the big list and then Talilan ensured that only bad choices were available by saying Yes?

BTW I need to see a scumlist from you. A lot of your play this game has been to sit back and criticize. Let's see your hand. I'm tired of trying to puzzle through what you're saying.

[Talilan]

I just re-read Thesp's post. On one hand he says he hopes we get a scum flip and that it could break the game open. I am forever the optimist and I agree.

On the other hand he says that if there's still 4 scum left that we shouldn't lynch. I assume if there are 4 scum currently alive and we lynch town it will get us into worst possible endgame.

I hope we started with only 5 scum, but we have to consider 4 scum still alive (6 total) as a very real possibility.

My first reaction is bordering on physical illness that we might decide not to use our last lynch, especially having wasted (IMO) yesterday's lynch.

~Tal

[hewitt]

Is this a serious question? We had consensus on-screen for me to check hewitt. Why are you trying to spin this against me?

Don't be a jackass and say we when clearly not every person On-Screen wanted you to check me. I made it VERY clear I thought it was stupid and that checking me was stupid because one of those son of a bitches were going to have screwed the town over and lied.

Oh. And I was right.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

DGB I never understood your onstage plan and did not feel comfortable going ahead with something that vague. SL charged ahead with his plan before we could resolve that.

VP Baltar got it. It involved series of 5 numbers that overlapped partially with the preceeding player's set. We would go more slowly, and examine fewer numbers, that's why I asked my husband to calculate the probability of having a VERY GOOD in, say, worse-case scenario, 12 numbers only. Even then, with 12 numbers chosen at random, the chances of hitting a VERY GOOD were 98 or 99%. And if the scum wanted to out themselves outrageously by making an extremely risky lie, it would be very easy to know who was lying, and kill scum.

I thought that was pretty clear. Why no one but VP Baltar was keen on it leads me to believe that VP Baltar is town, and the rest are a mixture of scum and townies going with the flow.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Don't be a jackass and say we when clearly not every person On-Screen wanted you to check me. I made it VERY clear I thought it was stupid and that checking me was stupid because one of those son of a bitches were going to have screwed the town over and lied.

Oh. And I was right.

First of all, you could be more polite. We're all people playing to a win condition that has been imposed on us. Being rude won't stop us from lynching you if we think you're scum.

Secondly, you're correct. Not everyone on screen wanted to check you in particular, but time was of the essence. So unlike you, I made the effort of checking WHO it was that suggested that you be re-checked.

It's funny how you yourself didn't bother to investigate who was telling MO to re-check your numbers. Yep. Very unusual.

It was VP Baltar and Talilan.

Because one of them was lying - or both.

VP Baltar was also pushing that I be investigated, by the way. Maybe examining you gave a worse outcome than examining me.

So you're either town, or a scumbag that was telling the truth.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

But more importantly, regardless of whether hewitt was town or scum telling the truth, Talilan's actions are scummy as hell and largely responsible for the VERY BAD outcome.

I urge everyone to look at this post I made explaining my scheme, and please tell me if you think that Talilan's declaration that they didn't understand my scheme is even remotely credible.

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 42#1960942

In all fairness, Talilan wasn't around when my plan was jinxed. SL, who also picked the numbers, forged ahead.

Not only did SL picked the numbers, he also decided which plan we would use:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 15#1959315

And then SL forged ahead and asked his question before my plan was discussed by everyone.

And then he was the first to pick.

In summary, ShadowLurker...

(1) picked the numbers
(2) devised the plan
(3) forged ahead before discussion was over
(4) was first to pick.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

I apologize for the stream of consciousness multiple posts. I'm just trying to figure things out and make order out of conflicting information.

[zu_Faul]

zu_Faul, why did you not give any thought or attention to lynching StarKiss?

If there is someone begging you to be lynched, you lynch them. Despite that, I don't think StarKiss is particularly scummy. Neither was Thesp, actually. I am pretty sure that Thesp is protown.


I seriously wonder why Goofballs was so "paranoid" about everything on stage, but let it slip the MO asked about a terrible set of numbers. You even hurried MO to sent in his choice.


I am sure at least one of Goofballs and Talilan is scum. I can't figure out who of the two at the moment. I must stress though, that I think it is possible that they are pulling a gambit and are both scum. This close to this very special endgame they can easily accuse each other (maybe now with 100% more NOLYNCH tomorrow) and point to it in the endgame.

Tags removed. Please use bold only for voting. - Mod

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

I'm sorry I let the town down, zu_Faul, but I got very discouraged. No one was listening, and I felt like I was totally bulldozed. Go read the thread again. Was everyone ignoring the plan I proposed? Pretty much. And my plan guaranteed either a VERY GOOD, a random outcome, and/or caught scum.

Of course I was paranoid. The plan was crap, SL rushed into it and we couldn't backtrack, and I really wasn't into it because there were tons of opportunity for a whole bunch of people to lie. And everyone else but Baltar and myself seemed to think that was

just fine

.

[Mighty Orbots]

Don't be a jackass and say we when clearly not every person On-Screen wanted you to check me. I made it VERY clear I thought it was stupid and that checking me was stupid because one of those son of a bitches were going to have screwed the town over and lied.

Oh. And I was right.

There were a few of us (Y HALO THAR HEWITT) who were content to follow along with the plan. In my case it's because I don't do math and people started throwing arcane formulae around like wizards.

Fantastic. We're almost done with this.

So, to verify: I'm asking if {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 41} contains a Very Good, right? And we're expecting a yes answer.

I was perfectly willing to check 41 per the plan. VP Baltar, Talilan, and DGB all agreed on this course. I was willing to do whatever. You just got pissy because we were checking you... prior to this you didn't care what happened. Shadowlurker was V/LA, I dunno where Thok was. So yeah, a majority (4/6 present) were in agreement.

---

In other news, I'd like to broaden my request from just Thesp to everyone else. Thok and Talilan have provided scumlists... I'd like to see everyone else's as well. We need to get our shit together offstage if we want any shot at this game.

[Mighty Orbots]

You even hurried MO to sent in his choice.

FFS we were at deadline.

What the hell is with this game.

Tags removed from quoted material. - Mod

[Talilan]

DGB, I don't follow why VP or myself has to be a liar AT ALL.
Why is Thok suddenly getting a free pass from you?
Where the hell is Thok anyway. I am VERY interested in his take on what went wrong last scene.

~Tal

ALSO:
Deadline is tomorrow. We have some really important decisions to make, and quickly.
1. Are we lynching? I say yes, but we'd want to be reasonably sure we're lynching scum, so...
2. WHO are we lynching?
In post 2367 of this thread CKD quotes StarKiss. Please go and read that comment. IMO there is no question StarKiss knows CKD is town, and he does not care. StarKiss is scum. QED. I think StarKiss is our safest lynch and I need two people who agree to stay offstage and lynch him.

~Tal

[Thok]

(4) was first to pick.

This is mostly irrelevant: ShadowLurker's pick was verified 5 times (every single no contained SL's original numbers, so in order for SL to have lied there would need to more liars than is reasonable given that this is a mafia game.)

Where the hell is Thok anyway. I am VERY interested in his take on what went wrong last scene.

My take is that at least one of you/Goofballs lied, (I know I told the truth, and I think the hewitt/Mighty Orbots pair lying is less likely given their position.)

I'm not happy with Goofballs trying to promote her plan as "foolproof". I think something like 3 yes's in a row with her plan set up a situation where we can't determine what the very good is, and more over if the numbers had a yes,no,yes pattern than the person who would have the middle no could lie without being caught. Also, her plan would have made us look at a smaller set of numbers than the actual plan did.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

DGB, I don't follow why VP or myself has to be a liar AT ALL.

Could be both!

Why is Thok suddenly getting a free pass from you?

My hatred of his playstyle borders on the irrational. Like some people's fear of snakes. Why am I his guardian or something? But then again he wasn't the one going rabid on Gaspar.

1. Are we lynching?

If we lynch someone it should be you.

blah blah blah question StarKiss knows CKD is town, and he does not care. StarKiss is scum.

A player that claimed scum was lynched. No really. You wantus to go back on all the mislynches? Your fingerprints are all over the crime scenes. Your file is a foot thick.

[Talilan]

If you really believe I should be lynched, you better fire me right now. and make it happen. You have that power.

And stop the hypocrisy. You've been an integral part of EVERY bad decision and I have not held that against you, because I havent felt that you are scum.

The Thok thing is a major point against you now. If you really believed he was scum (like you've been saying all along), he'd be the first person you would suspect of lying onstage. Yet you don't even acknowledge the possibility.

[Mighty Orbots]

Deadline is tomorrow. We have some really important decisions to make, and quickly.
1. Are we lynching? I say yes, but we'd want to be reasonably sure we're lynching scum, so...
2. WHO are we lynching?
In post 2367 of this thread CKD quotes StarKiss. Please go and read that comment. IMO there is no question StarKiss knows CKD is town, and he does not care. StarKiss is scum. QED. I think StarKiss is our safest lynch and I need two people who agree to stay offstage and lynch him.

This is still my suggestion:

I'm scheduled to be on stage, so Thesp will have to stay here to relay information. That's one. The only other one I feel really good about would be Shadowlurker.

hewitt
Thesp
Shadowlurker

?

[Talilan]

Thanks MO. I'm not disagreeing with your pick, but I thought you were feeling better about Hewitt after last scene....? What do you think about StarKiss?

Also I'd like a couple of options for the other two, so scum don't know for sure who is going to be offstage (they get to pick an advocate this scene).

~Tal

[Talilan]

Also, others weighing in would be appreciated.

[StarKiss]

My current scumlist would be:

SL
Tal
Hewitt


I doubt there are only 3 goons left though. We're probably better off no-lynching. We can't force best-endgame, let's not trigger worst endgame.

[Talilan]

I just looked at the rules again. It says we can only get the auto-worst endgame setup if we trigger EARLY it by hitting the minimum 5 innocents.
Even if we lynch a townie tomorrow and if that gets us down to 5 innocents, endgame still follows immediately. So there's no way we can trigger it early now. Am I right?

~Tal

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

If you really believe I should be lynched, you better fire me right now. and make it happen. You have that power.

That's ridiculous, if I fired you now, you'd still choose the next players. Unless I misread the rules.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

One of {DGB, Talilan} and StarKiss needs to die.

Now.

Look! Someone is ignoring Thok!

[Talilan]

SL is not the one who has been calling Thok scum all game. YOU are.

[Talilan]

I have spent a while agonising over the picks to go onstage, but provisional choices are sent. If ortolan sees any glaring problems with my picks he can change them.

We should keep the choices under wraps to not give info to scum, but I'll explain my reasoning tomorrow.