Mini 857 Disney Movie Mafia 2 - The Classics (Roll Credits)

[LlamaFluff]

hey mod, can I request a 2-3 day extension on the deadline..

it falls on a holiday in the US and I know that the 24th and 25th I will be super busy with family up my ass.

I will extend the deadline to Saturday November 27th at Noon PST. There is a high chance I will not have access untill the following monday however, so there may be a long twilight.

Vote Count

Gorrad (2) - StrangerCoug, Kublai Khan
curiouskarmadog(2) - Gorrad, semioldguy
StrangerCoug (1) - Crazy
Kublai Khan (1) - Starbuck

Not Voting (2) - Jazzmyn, curiouskarmadog

[Crazy]

Yeah, I agree. I just wanted to see if SC would push for the possibility that he mentioned.

I was merely answering a question you asked. I have more reason to believe you asked Jazzmyn specifically than me specifically, but that was a question any experienced player could answer. For me to seriously suggest that LlamaFluff changed the way he does scum PMs, I'd have to have gotten one in this game, and I haven't.

And that would be why I asked. =)

[semioldguy]

Do you suspect anybody else, semioldguy?

As of my more recent posts, Jazzmyn has been making it onto my suspects list. Due to my top suspects replacing out shortly after, I have been re-evaluating what I think of all the other players.

Unvote, Vote: Jazzmyn

How come you had more of a scum read on fuzzylighting than Neopi? What on Earth did Neopi do to reduce your suspicion of that player slot?

My neutral leaning scummy read was based on residual scumminess from the player slot that fuzzylightning left, yet I was not able to get a read on Neopi. None of his posts were hardly more than a single sentence and the newness of the player prevented a good read.

Kublai Kahn's entry from the game alleviates some of my suspicion on Brandi. I mostly agree with his reads. He brings up a good point about Jazzmyn's stance of strongly suspecting Starbuck, but not voting her (or voting for anyone).

Will wait for curiouskarmadog to finish his read, but so far he sounds better than YankCane151.

[Jazzmyn]

Care to show some evidence of this?

Sure. Start here

So you can say this, but won't provide the evidence.

You have over 200 posts in this game. The link above is to them, where anyone can read them to see the evidence. It is so voluminous that posting them all individually is far too onerous a task and it is actually easier to just read the entire body of evidence in one place.

I'll give you a history of my votes & FOS's in chronological order

In addition to those, you also accused Crazy of being scum (your 72).

You also went after Gorrad for "voting Brandi for a ridiculous reason" and trying to "justify his lurking by saying it's part of his playstyle" even though you said you had played with him before and hadn't seen "this playstyle as he puts it" (your 73).

You also FoS'd semioldguy (your 204).

So, I think it's fair to say that you have gone after

almost

everyone who has who has voted for you, commented negatively on your play or directed suspicion at you (even if inadvertently as in the case of Crazy): MonkeyMan, Chamber, me, Brandi, Gorrad, and Crazy although, interestingly enough, not YankCane.

Yes, I did push for his lynch, but I didn't push for it after he claimed the flavor.

Also, I ask again for evidence of my encouragement of the Monkey lynch "throughout all of Day 1" as you accuse me of.

You continued to encourage a Monkey lynch even after his flavour claim. Evidence:
After Monkey claimed his flavour:
Your post 149: you unvote Monkey "for now" - i.e. leaving it open for further re-voting.
Your post 161: you say that you think Monkey "slipped" when he commented on Neopi's role claim - i.e. suggesting that he is scum.
Your post 162: you suggest that Monkey is the Tramp - i.e. suggesting that he is scum since he had claimed the role of Peter Pan.
Your post 163: you again suggest that Monkey is the Tramp - i.e. suggesting that he is scum since he had claimed the role of Peter Pan.
Your post 165: you say that it is a good possibility that Monkey's claim is fake.
Your post 170: you say that you are "either for [lynching] Monkey or Neopi" - i.e. again suggesting that he is scum and that you support his lynch.
Your post 173: you say that there are decent cases against Monkey and criticize him for not thinking that they are decent - i.e. suggesting that he is scum.

Your last posts on Day 1 were your posts 174 and 175, both with more back and forth with Monkey.

I think that's pretty good evidence that you were still encouraging a Monkey lynch even after you unvoted him, and right up until your last posts of Day 1.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

I'm having a hard time comprehending your both attacking me for directing suspicion solely on the inactives and agreeing with my implication that I know there could be scum in the actives.

I wasn't attacking you. I was just asking why you asked the question the way you did, and you later explained it but I think I might have misunderstood your explanation. My latter post that you quoted was me addressing that part of your post was a bit of a strawman. But I'll chalk it up to misinterpretation on my part, your part, or both.

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Jazzmyn

- According to your vote, it was Starbuck's attempted self-hammer which earned your vote on her. Which you carried out until the end of the game. I'd try to analyze more, but you gave a very detailed explanation (post 887) about exactly what your reasons were for keeping your vote where it was.

Do you still think that Starbuck is the scummiest player in the game? If so, why aren't you currently voting for her?

Yes, I still currently think that Starbuck is the scummiest player in the game. I didn't vote initially because a real life matter kept me from being able to keep up to date with the game for several days and I wasn't sure if I was going to have to replace out, thus I couldn't post my case on her, plus I am not one to throw a lot of votes around even at the best of times.

After making my case on her, I thought I would wait until she responded to it, and now she has, but I find her response lacking and quite disingenuous. I intended to vote for her at the end of my post #1103, but I see that I neglected to do so. I will rectify that now:

Vote: Starbuck

In other news, I still have to do a thorough read of YankCane, and I have a few other things to catch up on here, but the other game that I'm playing currently is in LyLo (I think) so I have to tend to that first. I'll be back tomorrow.

Regards,
Jazz

[Starbuck]

You are just chock full of flailing and misrepresentations. You are only quoting half of my sentences and chopping off the rest because it doesn't fit with your case!

Care to show some evidence of this?

Sure. Start here

So you can say this, but won't provide the evidence.

You have over 200 posts in this game. The link above is to them, where anyone can read them to see the evidence. It is so voluminous that posting them all individually is far too onerous a task and it is actually easier to just read the entire body of evidence in one place.

Wow, did you really just try to say that I don't know how to read people in iso when you can't even link to it correctly? Seriously get off your high horse and get over yourself.

If you want to make a case on someone (and not this weak one that you are trying to pull off), you PROVIDE the EVIDENCE. I have provided the information from my posts that you are referring to because you keep misrepresenting me. I link directly to the post to show where it came from. You can sit here all day long and point your finger at me, but if you don't provide the evidence ON YOUR OWN, no one is going to listen.



So, why am I starting on page 43 when I asked you for evidence about the following:

Thus began a relentless campaign of Starbuck v. Monkey, which never really ended until Monkey's lynch at the deadline. Even though Starbuck got off of the Monkey wagon when he claimed his power role, she got back on it later, and then jumped off again before he was lynched, but she continued to go after him - relentlessly - without ever letting up, even while she purported to believe his claim. It just doesn't add up.

You realize that you left out one vital piece of information here? I jumped back on Monkey because he was refusing to claim his flavor. I didn't just jump back on for the sake of jumping on. Way to leave out details in order to make yourself look better.

You say I went after him relentlessly without every letting up. Care to show some evidence of this?

I want you to provide SPECIFIC EVIDENCE from Day 1 about this. This proves to me that you are refusing to do so. Refusal to provide information and specific evidence is scummy. You are beating around the bush and flailing horribly.

In addition to those, you also accused Crazy of being scum (your 72).

Starbuck's ISO Post 72

Why would he lie and say that I fakeclaimed when he knows nothing about my role? My guess is that he is scum painting a target on me, and WHEN I flip town. He will be in the spotlight and need to answer for that.

I guess I need to start using sarcasm tags if you seriously believe that this was an accusation.

You also went after Gorrad for "voting Brandi for a ridiculous reason" and trying to "justify his lurking by saying it's part of his playstyle" even though you said you had played with him before and hadn't seen "this playstyle as he puts it" (your 73).

What are you trying to say here? This is most definitely a misrep.

Starbuck's ISO Post 73

Let's look at the whole statements that you convieniently forgot to include:

He never random voted, but votes for Brandi because she agreed with KMD that not random voting is odd. Almost all the games here on MS start with a random vote of some kind,

I don't like that Gorrad would vote Brandi for such a ridiculous reason

, but wouldn't vote KMD for the same thing.

I also don't like how he tries to

justify his lurking via this post and this post. He then says it's part of his gamestyle

(which he states is anti-town) , which I haven't seen before. I've played previous games with Gorrad and I really haven't seen this gamestyle as he so puts it.

So where was I trying to justify his lurking? No where. Why? BECAUSE I WASN'T JUSTIFYING HIS LURKING.

Quit trying to cut and paste things to make yourself look better. Why? Because it's scummy.

You also FoS'd semioldguy (your 204).

Ok, and your point is? He didn't provide a whole case. Are you really jumping on me because I left out one FOS? To make my grand total of FOS's this game to 2. Rather than the 1 billion as you have been trying to elude to?

[Starbuck]

You continued to encourage a Monkey lynch even after his flavour claim. Evidence:
After Monkey claimed his flavour:

Your post 149: you unvote Monkey "for now" - i.e. leaving it open for further re-voting.

Starbuck's ISO Post 149

Your flavor makes sense in accordance with your claim. I really didn't learn anything new about you, but your flavor supports your claim. So I don't understand what was so difficult about that.

Unvote

, for now

I really don't want overzealous townies or scum to quickhammer.

I guess you would feel that way about this since you have such a weak case on me to begin with.

Your post 161: you say that you think Monkey "slipped" when he commented on Neopi's role claim - i.e. suggesting that he is scum.

Starbuck's ISO Post 161

I think I smell a slip here. Monkey's a watcher, and Neopi is a tracker. Hmm.

A watcher/tracker combo, especially after what Neopi had claimed could have definitely been feasible.

Your post 162: you suggest that Monkey is the Tramp - i.e. suggesting that he is scum since he had claimed the role of Peter Pan.

Starbuck's ISO Post 162

It would fall in line that Monkey is the Tramp with his emphasis on "classic" Disney movies.

My statement here is a feasible (and not as scumtastic as you paint it to be) since Tramp & Peter Pan are both "Classic" Disney characters.

And how was I suggesting he was scum since he claimed Peter Pan? I fail to see this. You are grasping at straws.

Your post 163: you again suggest that Monkey is the Tramp - i.e. suggesting that he is scum since he had claimed the role of Peter Pan.

Starbuck's ISO Post 163

Add that Starbuck's trying to tell players how to play and psuedo-threatening them, rather than allow the mod to decide what is or isn't allowed doesn't reek of someone who is trying to decipher information, rather someone that is trying to surpress it.

I don't think I ever told anyone how they should play. You are reaching here.

I can see how what I said earlier about possible modkills could be seen as threatening, but it was not meant to be. I felt like the discussion was turning that direction. So rather than lose a player, I was trying to bring the discussion away from that subject.

I also definitely think that you are reaching by saying that I'm trying to surpress information when I have not. I have freely given answers to ever question asked of me, whereas you have deflected and refused to answer a lot of what has been asked of you.

So explain to me how I was "suggesting he was scum in this post since he claimed Peter Pan" here because I seriously don't see it.

Your post 165: you say that it is a good possibility that Monkey's claim is fake.

Starbuck's ISO Post 165

For how long it took him to actually claim his flavor, I think it's a good possibility.

It WAS a good possibility at the time. It's very easy for you to say (now that Monkey flipped town) that it wasn't, but at the time, when we didn't know his alignment, it was a very good possibility.

Your post 170: you say that you are "either for [lynching] Monkey or Neopi" - i.e. again suggesting that he is scum and that you support his lynch.

Starbuck's ISO Post 170

I'm either for Monkey or Neopi. I definitely think there's a lot that Neopi isn't telling us.

Here you go, only taking half of what I said again.

I said I'm for either, but the fact that I stated that "I definitely think there's a lot that Neopi isn't telling us" should tell you right there that I was more for a Neopi lynch than Monkey.

Your post 173: you say that there are decent cases against Monkey and criticize him for not thinking that they are decent - i.e. suggesting that he is scum.

Starbuck's ISO Post 173

There are decent cases against you, but obviously it doesn't matter what type of case someone brings against you because in your eyes, it will never be decent.

There WERE decent cases against him. He was very scummy for all of Day 1, and I find it hard to believe that you didn't think so.

Your last posts on Day 1 were your posts 174 and 175, both with more back and forth with Monkey.

Starbuck's ISO Post 174

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

Starbuck's ISO Post 175

@Yank: Both...and I'll post my defence later, but I think it would be really dumb to lynch a power role without giving them a chance to prove their power.

Why are you putting off your defense for so long? (and in many cases repeatedly) If you are town your defense should be really quick/easy to do because you shouldn't have to make anything up. It helps the town most the sooner you do defend as it gives us all more time to see your response/defense before deadline which is very near.

You're being way too pushy. I have a life outside mafiascum. Stop trying to say that because I'm not doing everything on your terms it somehow makes me scummy.

Wow, this is quite a hypocritical statement, especially because you keep pushing everyone else, but the minute you don't want to give information or have something going on in real life, it's suddenly okay.

Not really. My complaint on you was you were posting in other games.

Your "complaint" on me was that I am in multiple games and caught up in other games before I got to this one, but as it was said before, as long as I catch up here, it really doesn't matter the order because I still kept posting here.

So your argument is null and void.

He jumped all over me earlier in the game about me being gone for the weekend and having real life go on, but the minute that he had something going on and someone gave him a hard time about it, he threw a temper tantrum. This is why I stated what I stated about him being hypocritical because HE WAS.

Maybe if you were around more often, you would have seen this when it happened.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok, getting back to this read…post 891, on page 36. As last time, typing as reading.

891, Gorrad steps up with a vote on Neo (scum), as does brandi in 893.

896, neopi erased, woah…that was fast. Vig or SK jumping right to it today.

897, understand Gorrad’s reasoning for voting Yank, but DON’T understand his reasoning for thinking Yank is scummier than Jazz. Later avoids questions, I think it is important and would like to know why.

900, crazy’s vote of SC makes sense…also crazy mimics my questions why yank is scummier than Jazz.

908,

If it's not important, I'm not going to answer. It's not set in stone, and I have one or two reasons I'd rather not spell out at the moment.

dance monkey dance....

Page 37-39

Blah blah blah, too much conversation about V/LA between (Star and brandi)

I disagree with SC, I believe that start does have a case against Star, not sure why you say she didn’t have one….(edit: ok you acknowledge a case in 970)

Also too much conversation about flavor related issues (between Jazz and Crazy, though I agree with Jazz, not sure why Crazy is basing anything from Star’s claim)

That being said, it does look like crazy is scum hunting and is asking good questions.

978, SC’s vote of gorrad looks strange…though I understand the lynching of lurkers…so meh.

Brandi, Yank, semi, and Gorrad are lurking…..that being said, later in game brandi and yank are replaced…

Game stalling.

998,

I see Jazzmyn as the most likely to be town.

bold statement, why?

1021,

Fair enough, I suppose. But I don't think that Gorrad is scum and, as I said previously, scum is just as often found among the most active players as among the least active players so I'm not convinced that this was a valid reason for you to sow suspicion

solely

upon the less active players while ignoring the more active players, who are just as likely to be scum.

not liking this post...not liking the Jazz/gorrad relationship...too much trust between the two of them when they both have been scummy (jazz more so)

1022,

I'm still waiting for a case from you, Jazz.

and there is this.

1038, KK replaces brandi….should be interesting..KK, is not a lurker…

--more game stalling, jesus Christ, this game must be cursed, death and sickness—

1051, I replace in, yay.

--not much happened before I posted my part one of the read…people explaining their votes. I replaced in after KK and have posted more content…boooooo, KK—

1065,

@Everyone else: I will be fully caught up tonight and will post my thoughts, comments, answers to questions, and suspicions then.

Star case?

1069,

Jazz, this guy has been super scummy all of Day one. His votes and post are pragmatic and his defense of the Mafia GF is horrid.

What's wrong with pragmatic posting? Are you sure "pragmatic" is the word you mean?

Looking through his posts, I never saw him defend Neopi. I noticed he was on the fence to the Neopi wagon, which is scummy, though.

always felt pragmatic met opportunistic in all personal motivations. perhaps I am wrong.

1071, Jazz’s case on star.

Jazz has some points (agree with self hammer point), going to have to reread (again) to see if Star actually is attacking those on the MM lynch.

1074, star retorts, going to have to read this exchange again..

--stopping with post numbers, caught up now that you shouldn’t need—

I'm pretty sure if Neopi had a safeclaim of some sort. He would have used it.

good point.

--ok, so here is where I think I stand on people, no this isn’t my pick for a scum team…but people I think are scummy—

Scum:

Jazz, keeping him here for reason I stated for Day 1 and I am also not liking his relationship with Gorrad, something about it is just rubs me odd. Why so much trust?..also interested in see a retorted to Star’s latest posts about you.

Gorrad, getting bumped to scum. No content..coasting the game. statements don’t make sense to me. Trust of jazz don’t make sense, looks more like buddying.

Neutral:

KK(brandi)….moved KK to the neutral category, but still leaning scummy from Brandi…that being said, I like KK read through post, watching him though, to see what he does next….sits and wait?...scum hunts??...lurks?

Star, back and forth where to put her. I almost put her in the town category, but that self votes really bothers me….going to review Jazz’s accusations of Star. Looks like she is scum hunting.

SC, would put him in the town category, if it wasn’t for that vote at the end of the game yesterday…

Semi, no new developments from him today….stays neutral.

Town:

Crazy’s stays town…not liking the conversation about flavor and roles…too much noise based on fluff. Other than that (and things I mentioned from yesterday)…I think he looks town and is actively trying to find scum.

--
Would like to hear from gorrad.

Vote most likely will be on Jazz or Gorrad…need to (re)read Star at the beginning of the day.

[semioldguy]

@curiouskarmadog
I'd really like to see a vote from you. I know you have just very recently replaced in, but it seems clear from your posting that you do have suspicions. Deadline isn't far off and you sitting back on your suspicions without a vote to make a solid stand makes me feel uneasy.

I don't like seeing people make a list of suspicions not accompanied with a vote. Doing that would allow cover for scum to make those suspicions and see which one hooks others and run with it or allows others to influence your vote between your top suspects making you less accountable for your own vote.

[curiouskarmadog]

oh I plan on voting...need to reread Jazz's points about Star in the opening of today....if I had to vote right now, I would probably vote jazz....but need to reread it first.....I also dont like Gorrad.

[semioldguy]

I see Jazzmyn as the most likely to be town.

bold statement, why?

It was mostly a gut read at the time which I felt was strong. I have since re-evaluated my read.

[StrangerCoug]

Where is Gorrad?

[Jazzmyn]

Wow, did you really just try to say that I don't know how to read people in iso when you can't even link to it correctly?

I have no idea what you're talking about. I said nothing of the sort.

The link is messed up, though, for some reason. I assume it is a glitch in the system because when I look at your iso, and cut and paste the url from the top of my web browser it still comes up as: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=1100 but that doesn't match up to the actual link. I have no idea why. So, since I can't link it, I would encourage players to scroll down to the iso thing at the bottom of the page and look up the post numbers cited.

Seriously get off your high horse and get over yourself.

What are you talking about, and why are you trying to make this personal?

I want you to provide SPECIFIC EVIDENCE from Day 1 about this. This proves to me that you are refusing to do so. Refusal to provide information and specific evidence is scummy. You are beating around the bush and flailing horribly.

I disagree. The majority of your 200+ posts bear out what I am saying, and anyone who has read the thread can see quite readily that this is so. I am not about to try to post links to all of your posts when it is much easier to just read them in iso for the full picture. If you are seriously trying to suggest that you were not all over Monkey on Day 1 - before, during and after his claim - then I think you're going to have a severe credibility problem.

I guess I need to start using sarcasm tags if you seriously believe that this was an accusation.

It sure didn't look like sarcasm to me. Others' mileage may vary.

What are you trying to say here? This is most definitely a misrep.

It is nothing of the sort. In fact, it appears that either you are feeling very stressed by my accusations or you have a problem with reading for comprehension or you are deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote.

So where was I trying to justify his lurking? No where. Why? BECAUSE I WASN'T JUSTIFYING HIS LURKING.

News flash. I did not accuse you of justifying his lurking. I said that you went after him for the quoted reasons: "voting Brandi for a ridiculous reason" and trying to "justify his lurking..." There is no misrepresentation here at all. I cited the reasons for which you were criticizing Gorrad, and I quoted them accurately.

Quit trying to cut and paste things to make yourself look better. Why? Because it's scummy.

I did no such thing. Are you skim reading and making errors as a result or are you deliberately misrepresenting things? There have been at least a few occasions in this game where you have used your own errors as the basis for accusing others of things that they had not done, to point suspicion at them where it was not warranted. I don't know whether this is due to skim-reading, lack of comprehension, or deliberate misrepresentation, but this isn't the first time you've done it and that adds to my suspicion of you.

Ok, and your point is?

My point is as set out in my prior post: that you have gone after almost everyone who ever voted for you, commented negatively on your play or directed suspicion at you (except YankCane).

Rather than the 1 billion as you have been trying to elude to?

If I've told you once, I've told you a million times, exaggeration is scummy. [/obvious tag]

Regards,
Jazz

[Jazzmyn]

Edit: Oops, I messed up that last quote tag. It should say "Starbuck wrote:", not "Jazzmyn wrote:"

Regards,
Jazz

[LlamaFluff]

Gorrad prodded

[Jazzmyn]

I guess you would feel that way about this since you have such a weak case on me to begin with.

Saying that you will unvote someone "for now" is, in my view, leaving open the door to re-vote him later, and your posts after Monkey's flavour claim belie your Day 2 claim that you believed him and backed off of him as soon as he claimed his flavour.

A watcher/tracker combo, especially after what Neopi had claimed could have definitely been feasible.

The point is that you suggested he "slipped" - which is suggesting that he is scum.

And how was I suggesting he was scum since he claimed Peter Pan? I fail to see this. You are grasping at straws.

Suggesting that he was the Tramp when he had claimed Peter Pan is suggesting that he was lying about his role, thus suggesting that he was scum.

So explain to me how I was "suggesting he was scum in this post since he claimed Peter Pan" here because I seriously don't see it.

I made a typo and wrote 163 there when I meant 164. In 164, you suggested that he was scum by suggesting that he was making up his role and making up his flavour.

It WAS a good possibility at the time. It's very easy for you to say (now that Monkey flipped town) that it wasn't, but at the time, when we didn't know his alignment, it was a very good possibility.

You seem to be forgetting that the point is that immediately at the beginning of Day 2, you came out saying that you believed Monkey from the moment he claimed his flavour, and you were criticizing everyone who was on the Monkey wagon. As set out previously, all of the foregoing posts that I have cited are pretty compelling evidence that you were not telling the truth.

I said I'm for either, but the fact that I stated that "I definitely think there's a lot that Neopi isn't telling us" should tell you right there that I was more for a Neopi lynch than Monkey.

Again, the point is that you claimed that as soon as Monkey claimed his flavour, you believed him and that nobody should have been on his wagon, but you yourself were open to a Day 1 Monkey lynch even after he had claimed both his role and his flavour.

He jumped all over me earlier in the game about me being gone for the weekend and having real life go on, but the minute that he had something going on and someone gave him a hard time about it, he threw a temper tantrum. This is why I stated what I stated about him being hypocritical because HE WAS.

Again, you miss the point. The point is that you were still going at him with your last posts of Day 1 despite your claim to have believed him and despite your claim to have backed off of him, and despite your Day 2 criticism of anyone who was on his wagon at the end of Day 1. Your last 2 posts were cited to show that they were, in fact, your last posts of Day 1.

Maybe if you were around more often, you would have seen this when it happened.

I did see it when it happened, and as I said, your last 2 posts of the day were included to show that they were, in fact, your last posts of the day, since that was relevant to my observation that you kept going at him right up until the end of the day.

As for your suggestion that I have not been around, it's neither accurate nor fair, and when I

was

away, it was for legitimate reason and I would much, much rather have been here than where I was.

Regards,
Jazz

[Gorrad]

I have cleared my schedule tomorrow. I swear, this read WILL be completed.

[Starbuck]

I disagree. The majority of your 200+ posts bear out what I am saying, and anyone who has read the thread can see quite readily that this is so. I am not about to try to post links to all of your posts when it is much easier to just read them in iso for the full picture. If you are seriously trying to suggest that you were not all over Monkey on Day 1 - before, during and after his claim - then I think you're going to have a severe credibility problem.

So you continue to REFUSE TO PROVIDE SPECIFIC EVIDENCE when you were asked for it MULTIPLE TIMES.

It is nothing of the sort. In fact, it appears that either you are feeling very stressed by my accusations or you have a problem with reading for comprehension or you are deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote.

You ARE going out of your way to deliberately misrepresent me, I pointed out quite a number of ways that you did so. Please don't patronize me and tell me that you didn't.

News flash. I did not accuse you of justifying his lurking. I said that you went after him for the quoted reasons: "voting Brandi for a ridiculous reason" and trying to "justify his lurking..." There is no misrepresentation here at all. I cited the reasons for which you were criticizing Gorrad, and I quoted them accurately.

I did misread this part, I apologize. They way it was worded made it seem like you were trying to say that I was justifying him in some way.

Anyways, why so defensive of Gorrad? He has been lurking and he did vote Brandi for a completely ridiculous reason. Are you seriously telling me that you find nothing scummy about Gorrad?

I did no such thing. Are you skim reading and making errors as a result or are you deliberately misrepresenting things? There have been at least a few occasions in this game where you have used your own errors as the basis for accusing others of things that they had not done, to point suspicion at them where it was not warranted. I don't know whether this is due to skim-reading, lack of comprehension, or deliberate misrepresentation, but this isn't the first time you've done it and that adds to my suspicion of you.

With the comprehension and length of my post, are you really thinking that I'm skimming? I type everything up in Notepad.

As I said just above, the way that sentence was worded made it seem to me like you were saying that I was trying to justify Gorrad. Maybe you just need to be a bit clearer, or using the actual SPECIFIC quote tags rather than picking the pieces that you wish to use.

I have made errors, yes, but I haven't denied them. When I have figured out what I did, I have admitted it and apologized, which is something that scum does not do.

My point is as set out in my prior post: that you have gone after almost everyone who ever voted for you, commented negatively on your play or directed suspicion at you (except YankCane).

WELCOME TO THE GAME OF MAFIA! Where if you are a vanilla Townie, you need to be suspicious of EVERYONE.

If I've told you once, I've told you a million times, exaggeration is scummy. [/obvious tag]

Whoa, you are trying to talk to me about exaggeration when you eluded that I had quite a number of FOS's when I really only have 2?

[Kublai Khan]

KK(brandi)….moved KK to the neutral category, but still leaning scummy from Brandi…that being said, I like KK read through post, watching him though, to see what he does next….sits and wait?...scum hunts??...lurks?

Eh, mostly wondering why Starbuck didn't answer the questions I asked her. The fact that she ignored my questions to her and instead focused on my Gorrad vote doesn't sit well with me.

Plus I'm waiting on Gorrad because he's my top scum suspect. (EBWOP: Gorrad is back! Grr.. waiting until tomorrow..)

Also:
The Jazzmyn vs. Starbuck text-walling needs to cool down. Starbuck seems like she might some valid points but it's negated by the "gotcha!" arguments and overall insulting condescension. Jazzmyn is landing a couple of blows, however she is backpedaling a bit. But overall the giant text war is a null experience and well...boring. Nobody should ever quote the same person more than three times. Choose your battles and focus on each other's scummiest positions if you want attention, because I'm just skimming over the war at this point.

@Starbuck & Jazzmyn: What are your reads on Gorrad?

[Starbuck]

Saying that you will unvote someone "for now" is, in my view, leaving open the door to re-vote him later, and your posts after Monkey's flavour claim belie your Day 2 claim that you believed him and backed off of him as soon as he claimed his flavour.

So the fact that Monkey was up my ass all of Day 1 means nothing to you then? It's very easy to defend someone now that they have flipped town, but he wasn't exactly a saint either.

It shouldn't have taken Monkey as long as it did for him to claim his flavor. He was all the way up to L-1 before he claimed it. I didn't feel comfortable having him at L-1 and giving scum the ability to hammer a claimed town PR. So I unvoted him. I wanted to see how the rest of the day played out. Longer days are better for the town.

Why aren't you jumping on the people who didn't get off his lynch after his claim? You think I'm so suspicious for not wanting to lynch a town PR (if I wanted to, my vote would have stayed), but you haven't said anything about all the people who stayed on his lynch after that point.

You are tunneling.

The point is that you suggested he "slipped" - which is suggesting that he is scum.

Suggesting that he was the Tramp when he had claimed Peter Pan is suggesting that he was lying about his role, thus suggesting that he was scum.

He could have slipped, at that point there was more than that one possibility of what actually was going on. What's wrong with trying to bring all of the possibilities to light for the rest of the town? It wasn't a bad theory. I was wrong, and I'm fine with that, but you can't sit here and tell me that it wasn't a possibility. It's really easy of you to come in now (when you were barely around then) and make judgment calls.

I made a typo and wrote 163 there when I meant 164. In 164, you suggested that he was scum by suggesting that he was making up his role and making up his flavour.

I'm not the Tramp, nor am I affiliated with Neopi. Starbuck's interpretation of my supposed slip is way off. I meant that he can only use his power after day 2, I lose my power if we lynch a townie, We are both claiming power roles, and both claiming restrictions on our power.

Neopi is claiming that he doesn't know who the Tramp is. You could very well be the Tramp.

Peter Pan is very commonly known, and I forgot who said it early but words like pixie dust, windows, and happiness are almost synonymous with Peter Pan. You could have easily made up your flavor which is what took you so long to claim it.

And this isn't that far off the wall either. It's not scummy to take in every single possibility or talk about every single possibility.

You seem to be forgetting that the point is that immediately at the beginning of Day 2, you came out saying that you believed Monkey from the moment he claimed his flavour, and you were criticizing everyone who was on the Monkey wagon. As set out previously, all of the foregoing posts that I have cited are pretty compelling evidence that you were not telling the truth.

Never said I believed him from that moment. Again, another misrepresentation.

Starbuck's Post 894

I really don't understand why there were still people on Monkey's train at the end of yesterday. I know I threw out the theory of him possibly being the Tramp, but his flavor definitely mirrored his role, no matter how scummy I found him to be acting.

I wasn't on the Monkey train because Neopi was scummier. So again, why are you jumping all over me about NOT being on his train when there's a pretty scummy person (like Gorrad) who was?

curiouskarmadog brought up a very good point. You seem very trusting of Gorrad and now that I think about it and have been reading back. I can see it too. Strange, how you just let him slip on by.

Again, the point is that you claimed that as soon as Monkey claimed his flavour, you believed him and that nobody should have been on his wagon, but you yourself were open to a Day 1 Monkey lynch even after he had claimed both his role and his flavour.

I didn't claim that, quit misrepresenting me.

He jumped all over me earlier in the game about me being gone for the weekend and having real life go on, but the minute that he had something going on and someone gave him a hard time about it, he threw a temper tantrum. This is why I stated what I stated about him being hypocritical because HE WAS.

Again, you miss the point. The point is that you were still going at him with your last posts of Day 1 despite your claim to have believed him and despite your claim to have backed off of him, and despite your Day 2 criticism of anyone who was on his wagon at the end of Day 1. Your last 2 posts were cited to show that they were, in fact, your last posts of Day 1.

This point had ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the game. So how can you logically use this in your case against me?

[Starbuck]

@KK - What was your question? You had some pretty long posts, so I probably missed it.

[Starbuck]

Also, I ask that you not skim. I have debunked more than a few of her accusations. She has failed to provide specific evidence. I have provided the links and direct quotes from the posts that she has referred to and she definitely has misrepresented me more than once.

And, I'm not meaning to be condescending in the least. I capitalize to emphasize. The game of mafia is a heated one, if you can't take the heat, you need to get out of the kitchen. That's my take.

@Starbuck & Jazzmyn: What are your reads on Gorrad?

I find Gorrad to be quite scummy.

Here is my rather short case on him Day 1 since he wasn't posting much.


Gorrad tried to say that he had a case on me and that I needed to read his posts if I wanted to find out the case, so I did in Post 938. Imho, that doesn't constitute a case.

Unvote

[Starbuck]

@Kublai Khan - I went back to re-read your stuff. If I missed something please let me know.

If you thought MonkeyMan576 wasn't the right person to lynch, why were you pressuring him so much?

I really don't feel I was pressuring him. As I said to Jazzmyn, at that point, a watcher/tracker combo could have been a good possibility. I was throwing out what I was thinking because any and all information helps the town. If my idea was far fetched, I expected that it would have been shot down. When really it wasn't until Day 2 when Monkey flipped as his claim.

You also saw that at the end of the day that my vote WAS NOT on Monkey. It was on Neopi, who was the person I found to be the scummiest. I only have one vote and I placed it on the scummiest person in my eyes.

I really don't understand why there were still people on Monkey's train at the end of yesterday. I know I threw out the theory of him possibly being the Tramp, but his flavor definitely mirrored his role, no matter how scummy I found him to be acting.

Why does this Day 2 behavior not jive with this late Day 1 post?

I'm either for Monkey or Neopi. I definitely think there's a lot that Neopi isn't telling us.

I can definitely see how it doesn't jive, but my vote stayed on Neopi. There's so much focus on me NOT voting for Monkey that there is no focus on the people who actually WERE. Or the person who made it so he was the Day 1 lynch. We had a 3 way tie going for awhile.

[Crazy]

Posting here later tonight.