Mini 875 - Utopia Mafia -- Mod Abandoned


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Post Post #175 (ISO) » Thu Nov 19, 2009 10:45 pm

Post by Budja »

Juls - in the neutral zone. general pro-town feel, but some of the recent focus on the question is scummy.
Haylen - looks transparent town.

@Mae, I take your point about the votecount (may the mod return soon) but its still pretty clear he is in no danger yet.

Unofficial Votecount
(probably right)
Tjoe Min Ja (3):, Vaya, Haylen, J-Fox
lewarcher82 (2): Juls, Budja
Vaya (1): Malthusis
Maemuki (1): Snow White
Budja(1): Tjoe Min Ja
J-Fox(1): Taranski
mentosman8(1): Maemuki
Juls(1): lewarcher82
Not Voting: mentosman8

Depressing how many prods/replacement we need.

Add Mae to my willing to lynch list above snow. Buddying vibe, appears to be trying to "ride the wave" (hard to articulate).
Lewarcher is still obvscum though.
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Post Post #176 (ISO) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:42 am

Post by Snow White »

A hoi hoi. Night out. Post today, need to collect sister and Dog Lisence first. Post when i come home. : )
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Post Post #177 (ISO) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:47 am

Post by Taranski »

V/LA for the wknd.

will try to come back and post something thats not nothing
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Post Post #178 (ISO) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:49 am

Post by lewarcher82 »

Guys, I am not trying to OMGUS anyone. I think Juls is scum. If you do not see how her question screws pr's, I don't know what to say. It's your problem.

Sometimes I have the feeling that people on this site don't use wits, they just apply schematic models. So you guys fail to see the unusual but strong scummyness of Juls question, and you are only able to say mechanic stuff as "you voted soon, you voted late".

A news: I have something else to do in my life, and I open mafia once a day, for 20 minutes or stuff. So forget about tempo and use your brains. Mafia woulnd't answer no to Juls question.
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Post Post #179 (ISO) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:50 am

Post by lewarcher82 »

Oh, one more thing. I am not changing my vote cuz someone thinks that it is an OMGUS. I am freaking conviced that Juls is scum. or she is so naive to think that mafia would answer no to her question. In both cases town's better off without her.

That's it for today. Good luck thinking.
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Post Post #180 (ISO) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 6:56 am

Post by lewarcher82 »

Maemuki don't use tricks with me! You included a quote that is NOT mine, but Snow's, in your big post against me!
Post the names of the authors in your quotes!

And now I am really out to eat some japanese shit.
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Post Post #181 (ISO) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:00 am

Post by Juls »

The question was a last ditch effort to get some convesation going on in this game. A game, tbh, I am not enjoying playing due to all the lurking/nonparticipation. It needed to be shook up and I knew the question may be preceived as scummy. Which was fine with me because if I DO get lynched because of it, then it is fine in my eyes because, as I said, town will gain an early advantage. But I will say this. If you are going to lynch me because my question was scummy, you need to do it today and not wait until late in the game. If you wait until late in the game town will lose.

Budja, I don't know what you mean by "transparent town" but I don't see where Haylen is town in anyway except anti-town.
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Post Post #182 (ISO) » Fri Nov 20, 2009 2:03 pm

Post by mentosman8 »

In terms of Juls' question, I do see where Lew is coming from, in the fact that it could potentially give scum an idea who PR's are if we start with any, just as much as it could incline scum. And really, it doesn't help scumhunt because everything comes down to WIFOM. "Well, scum would say no because they can't afford to lose a member, but they probably know that so they would say yes to look town." However, I do see it as an attempt to start discussion, so I'm not going to say I think it was a scummy question, perhaps moreso misguided.
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Post Post #183 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:14 am

Post by Maemuki »

lewarcher82 wrote:
Maemuki don't use tricks with me! You included a quote that is NOT mine, but Snow's, in your big post against me!
Hey, you aren't the only player on this game now are you?

@ lewacher, why is town better off without someone that actually tries to participate?
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Post Post #184 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:52 am

Post by Tjoe Min Ja »

@lew : control your manner...you aren't helping yourself.

@Budja : how come J-fox vote me?...and please answer Juls' question.

@Taranski :I'll be waiting for your comment.
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Post Post #185 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:08 am

Post by Snow White »

Oh grr. Whenever im caught up in one game i fall behind in my initially started game. Oh well! 2games down from win and death i should be okaies from here on in.

Lewarcher thank you for clearing that up about your sacrafice. Its good to have it on record. :D

@Budja post 140 you ask why should we just assume both mafia and town start out with no powers? Well it seems a little unbalanced otherwise do you not think? I read a lot into these games, i cant help it. And iwhatever the circumstance everything in mafia is always a possiblity.
Who is more likely scum? Ill try to compile a scumlist at the end of my post.

And Haylen, dont be modest, your reputation precides you. I knew about you before i inned for this game. And the more notority a scummer gets the more players will follow their lead if they believe them to be town.

Juls, why do you find Haylen scum?
Anti town i most certainly agree with but i dont believe it intentional nor do i feel particularily strong enough to place a vote on her. Moreover. I feel Budja, maybe with the most content would be precieved as scummier than any of Haylen, Lewarcher or JFox. What has made you VOTE Lewarcher over the others? You may say you find them all scummy because they refused to self sacrafice but what warranted you to SINGLE him out above Haylen.

ALSO. You have thus far still failed to give an excuse as to why you SINGLED me out as a lurker. When i was out of the bunch one of the most active until other priorities came to the front.

I agree with Vaya. The more likely scum, would have presumably played matyr. I see nothing suspicious of Juls question. Its a fair question to ask and i feel at least we have been segrated into conversation. Serious conversation. But basing a lynch on someones answer is a definate no-no. Its a risky game one which i will, if i dont feel the lynch is correct, refrained from.

Lewarcher we are going back to questioning the mod on how he has designed the game whether in giving roles at the beginning or not when the fact is we dont know.

And i agree witth Budja its just a whole lot of WIFOM. And likewise, im beginning to think JFox may be in need of a replacement, we cant just guesss for him and Juls you have just subjected JFox to scrutinisation even though he has had no say of his own.
FoS Juls
You have suggested lynching from a pick of those who have said they will not sacrafice themselves.

It is a good question Lewarcher because it HAS stimulated conversation. And we DO know which side people are on. Thus the people who are willing to sacrafice themselves may be called to do so in the future. No? Those who have answered "no" will have questions hanging over their head aas regard to what motives they have for wanting to stay alive.

I agree with Lewarcher's annoyance that you have used my confusion to vote him[quote]I didn't avoid the question, and you know it, since you immediately register my first answer as "not willing to sacrifice". I simply tried to provide meta-information to explain my position. Then you saw that someone felt confused by my answer and you decided it was useful to say that I avoided the question. This is scummy. You are fishing AND scummy. [/b] Rereading back over the event, after Lewarcher gave his reply you DID register it as a no Juls.

Okay, im not referring to the possiblities of the set up anymore. You all know my view at this stage. I do not see Juls question as fishing. End of imo.

FoS Budja
I believe one should have more reason to vote for someone than to see the reaction. We are imho out of the RVS. And the vote 2posts apart was hardly to be taken seriously. What sort of reaction were you expecting?

And what is Lewarcher scum for? What actually IS the case on Lewarcher? I presume there is one? And if someone bases a vote on Lewarcher on the fact he's honestly refused to willingly sacrafice himself then
FoS your way too.
because there were 2other people who said no too. To site one person over 2 others without valid reasons is not just anti town it is scummy.

Lewarcher same question to you. Why (apart from the question Juls asked!!) do you find Juls scummy?

Maemuki. Post 170 is ENTIRELY addressed to Lewarcher. But you are USING 2 OF MY QUOTES.
Confirm Vote: Maemuki
The excuse, that it wasnt, is nothing short of a lie. At no point did you mention MY name.
Lasty. Lynching lurker is a dangerous business. Frankly, i know lurkers suck. I know I sometimes suck. But you've got to distinguish when someone is trying to participate and when someone says nothing and sails through the game. But if you base a lynch on someone who is trying but not succeeing over someone who actively participates but is scummy then its a blind stab in the dark. *Everybody, cross your fingers!!*
Lastly, your advising someone you, as potential town think is scum, to not act so scummy. ???...???....

Im sorry Juls you are not enjoying the game that much, hopefully if you are still alive tomorrow, the interest with perk up.

I heartily agree with MM8. Frankly atm. I see both Juls and Lewarcher as townies who have just locked horns.

Scum.
Maemuki.

Neutered.
MM8.
Budja.
JFox.
Vaya.
Haylen.
Maltusis.
Taranski.

Townvibes.
Lewarcher.
Juls.
Tjoe.

As always subject to change. Mae, will be looking at you closely.
IGMEOY Neutrals
However i can always be wrong and nothing i write should be taken as gospel. Obv.
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Post Post #186 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2009 10:11 am

Post by Snow White »

Oh and btw. ill have some cases compiled for scum and some town by the end of day1.

Like i sez. I like reasons. Though they're always up to the individual to decide what they think. lool.
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Post Post #187 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:24 pm

Post by Budja »

@Tjoe, 1. how should I know? and 2. don't hassle me about not answering unless I actually posted after the question, thank you.

@Juls, Haylen admission to her playstyle seemed honest to me. Apart from the its just a general "openness" feel to her posts. (Not a great explanation I know, basically gut.)

@Snow,
1. Glad someone agrees with me on the question. You seem to have virtually an identical view to me.
2. Claiming no powers in a bad idea if powers exist as it is basically a vanilla claim (for now)
Snow White wrote:What actually IS the case on Lewarcher?
Read my posts. I am
not
following Juls' case which it the one you are disagreeing with.

The case on lewarcher is a) his switch of the Tjoe wagon after Juls pressured it for little reason (lesser point) and more importantly b) the OMGUS attack on Juls and her question only after he was suspected for it. He had no problem with role-fishing while it was being asked.

In short, inconsistency.
snow wrote: I believe one should have more reason to vote for someone than to see the reaction.
Why not? I was not going to push your lynch with it. It was to help me decide whether to vote for you or lewarcher. I chose you as I don't trust Juls. Then I noticed lew's scummy position switch and you were forgotten :P.

----

What would be really great is for opinions. We can't expect to catch scum with our votes and suspicions so spread out.
@everyone (who hasn't said so), do you agree with the lewarcher case?
If not, who should we all vote for instead and why?
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Post Post #188 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:39 pm

Post by Tjoe Min Ja »

@budja : J-fox never unvote me thus the "vote" invalid....

you are the one who mention it first....
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Mini 839 -- Mafia Invasion! -over- scum win
Mini 840. Tajo's I love you Mafia -over- scum - win
StrangerCoug's Worst Nightmare: D├â┬®j├â┬á Bastard -over- Town - win
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Post Post #189 (ISO) » Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:45 pm

Post by Budja »

Ah, I misunderstood what you were talking about :P.
I went from the mod's last count and he had J-Fox voting you.
Probably a mod-error.
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Post Post #190 (ISO) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:13 am

Post by lewarcher82 »

@Tjoe: yeah, sorry about my attitude.

@Snow: I have no further reasons to think Juls is scum. Only what I have been saying about her question: does not give info about scums, and puts pr's in a difficult situation. Also, she understood I was saying: no, but later she tried to take advantage of your request for clarification and tell that I wasn't clear. Moreover, stimulating conversation is good, but you know, if now I try to fish roles, conversation will be very active in the next days. This doesn't mean that role fishing is good :-D

@Mae: well, then please post the names of the people you quote, dude. The way you wrote, it looked like I was fosing people I never fosed.
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Post Post #191 (ISO) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 5:18 am

Post by lewarcher82 »

@Budja: for the third time, I switched from Tjoe's wagon after coming back from a V/LA. If you keep using this argument, you problly want me dead *really* bad: any new argumentations?
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Post Post #192 (ISO) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:18 am

Post by Snow White »

@Budja and Tjoe. Mod error. :lol:

Ive already registered that we've got paralell views Budja. On such a stance, im surprised of the actions you've thus taken. Even disliked some of them. Such as the L-3 vote on Tjoe in what was more or less 12 hours after Lewarcher's first vote. Vaya and myself posted to say the wagon was too premature for the amount of votes it recieved.

This was Juls word on the matter.
Juls wrote:Other than that the wagon on Tjoe was fine. It was about pressure. What concerns me is that it is still 4 strong. lewarcher, J-Fox, Haylen, Vaya...are you still convinced he was not being sarcastic and think he is scum? why or why not.
@Lewarcher you ignored the question and continued to unvote Tjoe in the next post. Why didnt you answer the question and why post 3times after Vaya and myself, with no word about how "premature" the Tjoe wagon was. Only after 3days did you unvote after Budja unvoted

Hm. Point taken on two Budja. As town and scum will be getting powers then we cant really hold to the whole sacrafice thing.

@Lewarcher you have since starting this game seemed overtly on edge about the simplest of things. Any particular reason?

What i dont like is two opposing reasons for voting Lewarcher.
Tjoe voted Lewarcher for not unvoting him soon enough.
Budja voted Lewarcher for unvoting Tjoe 3 days after.
Im confused. :shock: :lol: Sowwie. XD

@Budja. Why should you trust me anymore than Juls? What you said was "I am up for Lewarcher or Snow White at this point" Forgiven for now but not forgotten.
I just take my vote seriously i suppose. But there are how many other players in the game? Why single me out? I can semi understand your stance on Lewarcher.

*More content from other players please.
I'd OMGUS vote Juls for voting my inactivity but seeing as she's already got one OMGUS vote i'd rather keep that to a minimum. That and i like my vote where it stands atm.

----

Do i agree with the Lewarcher case? I agree he's being overtly jumpy but for the amount of suspicion on him i find it excusable.

My vote on Maemuki stands as:
1. Her initial RVS vote was a contradiction. She jokes about being psychic.
2. Once JFox and Juls vote Snow White, Maemuki votes Snow White. No reason other than "Meh, why not" Having no problem with a Bandwagon.
3. She hesitates on a third vote on Tjoe for fear of a bandwagon.
4. Has not addressed this as of yet despite being asked to by more than one player.
5. Once Juls unvotes Snow White, because no one is following. Maemuki tag teams Juls again in unvoting Snow White. (I cant emphasise how much i
HATE
tag teams)
6. Maemuki also included some of my quotes to mis rep Lewarcher. When previously including quote names (though admittedly not on every occasion) she failed to do so on this occasion and expected Lewarcher to know that these quotes were not directed to him which IS a lie from the first misquoted quote. She addresses the actions Lewarcher took under my quote.
Maemuki wrote:You know? The fact that Lewacher voted Juls after she made the question is extremely scum - oh crap, Budja got there before I

Why is it rolefishing, lewacher? Juls didn't ask for roles or anything of sorts.
Maemuki is still my first and foremost suspect.
Let me guess. Gut + joining a bandwagon that just happened to be yours? (Answer please.) Oh,
why are you not voting for me by the way?
My quote. I was voting Maemuki. And Lewarcher was voting Juls. She CANT have been addressing me because my vote WAS on her.

Im happiest with reasons.
That's why you didn't give reasons to me, right? :D
Because you chose to ignore the questions put to you, doesnt mean i've forgotten them and oh lookie here!! I've listed them right above this!!

1) A scum would not answer no to such a question.
And risk being lynched?
2) The purpose of asking such a question can be to throw suspicion on honest townies who just admit they want to survive and, possibly, to survivors. Moreover, it can be an attempt to fish the PR's. This makes the whole question scummy to me.
Honest townies? Depends. Either way - we're better lynching scum than town - you're attacking the question because you can't find another defence.
See qhat I mean now?
No.

Lewacher. Try to redeem yourself, answer to questions, stop trying to OMGUS Juls.

-Now you have had enough time to catch up Maemuki. I'd like an explanation to the above as well as your thoughts on the Tjoe wagon and like Budja, what do you think of the case on Lewarcher? Can you put it into your own words?
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Post Post #193 (ISO) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 7:28 am

Post by Snow White »

Ugh for long posts. Seriously. I hate them as much as ye guys do. Ill make this one breifer. :D

@Lewarcher, you do realise by pursuing the uestion Juls asked as vehemently as you have that you are drawing attention to yourself? But i do admit. I did not like the way she registered you as saying no and then backtracked saying you were unclear. If she was unclear, she shouldnt have put you down as "not willing to sacrafice". It is noted. But her efforts to get conversation i have found pro town... her actions have left alot to be desired.

For future reference and in case i forget, ill be V/LA on Wednesday.
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Post Post #194 (ISO) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 9:09 am

Post by Maemuki »

lewacher wrote:@Mae: well, then please post the names of the people you quote, dude. The way you wrote, it looked like I was fosing people I never fosed.
I'll try. If I call you an embarassing nickname then it's not my fault, ok? I dislike having to write names every time I quote. >.<
SW wrote: Having no problem with a Bandwagon.
*rolls eyes* I've said it once. But I'll repeat. RVS bandwagon ≠ Bandwagon with reasons. If you don't understand that - well, I tried. And me and Juls are not a tag team, I just leave my RVS votes on all the time and I tried to remember it. Remind me to forget the RVS votes on again.
SW wrote:6. Maemuki also included some of my quotes to mis rep Lewarcher. When previously including quote names (though admittedly not on every occasion) she failed to do so on this occasion and expected Lewarcher to know that these quotes were not directed to him which IS a lie from the first misquoted quote. She addresses the actions Lewarcher took under my quote.
I assume everyone here is not a hydra, so everyone here knows what they write. I assumed that Lewacher knew what he wrote...as well as you know what you write. If that was unclear, sorry. I'll try to include quote names from now on - but if you're uncertain ask.
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Post Post #195 (ISO) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 10:37 am

Post by Snow White »

Mae wrote:
SW wrote:6. Maemuki also included some of my quotes to mis rep Lewarcher. When previously including quote names (though admittedly not on every occasion) she failed to do so on this occasion and expected Lewarcher to know that these quotes were not directed to him which IS a lie from the first misquoted quote. She addresses the actions Lewarcher took under my quote.
I assume everyone here is not a hydra, so everyone here knows what they write. I assumed that Lewacher knew what he wrote...as well as you know what you write. If that was unclear, sorry. I'll try to include quote names from now on - but if you're uncertain ask.
Right. People know what they write. In this regard, you either
could not
have meant me like you claim. Because my vote was on you. Not like you suggest in your post.
Maemuki wrote:
Snow White wrote:Maemuki is still my first and foremost suspect.
Let me guess. Gut + joining a bandwagon that just happened to be yours? (Answer please.)
Oh, why are you not voting for me by the way?


You knew what you wrote, right? Here's what i think. You meant that entire post for Lewarcher because HE WASNT voting you, because he was voting Juls. This makes sense.

But since you NOW say this is addressed to me, it CANT BE because I was voting you but in this post you ask why i am not voting you. Thus it lacks sense.

Furthermore, the only conclusion i can come to is you delibrately used my quote to misrepersent him. In the hope someone fell in active or you wouldnt be picked up on it.

And lastly
Maemuki wrote:*rolls eyes* I've said it once. But I'll repeat. RVS bandwagon ≠ Bandwagon with reasons.
On iso, you've never said this. You never addressed Tjoes nor my own questions over why you refrained from his BW and jumped on mine. But the excuse given is valid, now, in what way are lies benefical to town?
/Rhetorical question.
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Post Post #196 (ISO) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 12:23 pm

Post by Budja »

I wanted to push Tjoe to L-3. More pressure is good. I was not aiming for a lynch then (I am now).
Snow wrote:Why should you trust me anymore than Juls?
I didn't. I chose to
vote
you as I didn't trust Juls.
TBH, the reason I had for voting you are pretty invalid now so I guess I do trust you a bit more now.
Snow wrote:I'd OMGUS vote Juls for voting my inactivity but seeing as she's already got one OMGUS vote i'd rather keep that to a minimum. That and i like my vote where it stands atm.
Its only OMGUS if you have no other (valid) reasons.
What strikes me as odd it that you seem to dislike a lot of Juls but she is one of your top town.
----

All other cases apart from mine against Lewarcher are bad IMO.

---

The Mae case is okish (I only half-agree with most your points) but not half as good as lewarcher.
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Mafia Scum
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Joined: January 27, 2008

Post Post #197 (ISO) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 3:44 pm

Post by malthusis »

Sigh.... I don't know why I can't keep up with this, but I guess I'll try my best.

Getting to actual posting I'll
Unvote
if I haven't already.

I haven't read hard yet, but why are you worrying so much on those early bandwagon votes, Tjoe? It's a perfectly valid strategy to pressure people in the early game and see if they crack.
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lewarcher82
lewarcher82
Mafia Scum
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lewarcher82
Mafia Scum
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Joined: September 2, 2009

Post Post #198 (ISO) » Sun Nov 22, 2009 11:31 pm

Post by lewarcher82 »

quick post from job:

@Snow: yes, I realise I draw attention to myself, but I really feel the question is fishy, and Juls's statement that I was unclear after she already counted me as "no" seems incoherent. So I am convinced tha Juls is scum, and from my point of view she is not doing anything to contraddict my feeling.

@Snow(2): I didn't answer the question, you are right. I didn't think Tjoe was not scummy anymore, I just realised that there were more votes on him than it should.

@Mae: you can use whatever nickname you like for me, it's ok. I leave it to your fantasy :-)
Used to play a lot, haven't played for like 8 years, would like to play again.
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Taranski
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Taranski
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Post Post #199 (ISO) » Mon Nov 23, 2009 8:28 am

Post by Taranski »

interesting case against mae. the misquoting is clearly an issue.
unvotwe. vote: maemuki
.

howver I don't really see why scum would intentionally msiquote.
SW, why do you fos juls but later have him on your town list.
whoever said the thing about contradicting reasons for voting makes a good point. Makes me not wanna hop on that wagon.

Juls q could have been detrimental to town, however I think it may be just a bit misguided. Don't at all think he is scum though. do not think its a valid reason to vote for someone for not wanting a sacrifice. however I can easily see why Juls would push that.

i have yet to reread so my thoughts are still just based off of new content and not the game as a whole, so I'll try to do that reread soon.

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