Mafia 103 - Ktown Mafia (Game Over)

[Haylen]

Sorry, my building was on fire. I've been standing outside in the cold for the last hour and a half while come fire engines came to sort it out. I've writing half the post though. (My posts dont tend to be long, im just a very slow typer.)

[Rhinox]

unvote

I still think I made a good point, but I can't come to the conclusion that you are scum based on that one point alone, and I don't want to turn this into a distracting quote war nobody can win.

The Katniss comment is still a null tell. Townies have a collective goal of catching scum, and one way to help the town do that is to not sidetrack the town into thinking your scum when you have the inside knowledge of knowing you're not. If Katniss showed a consistent record of only defending and trying not to look scummy, that would be one thing, but one comment saying he wants to "hopefully prove he's not scum" is not "devoting his time trying to look pro-town". Katniss has appeared to be scumhunting in this game, as far as I can tell.

I'm not ignoring scott, but he made it clear why he didn't like Katniss' comment, and also voted katniss for other reasons that didn't include the comment. I have no problem with people supporting their cases with a vote if they provide sound reasoning, even if I don't agree with them.

Arguing that the case on you is bad is not much of an argument, but I'll play along. Suppose you're right and the case on you is the worst possible case... is town or scum more likely to make a bad case? Would you rather players sit back and not present cases at all until there is a good case? Can there ever be a good case that way?

I guess it was more convenient to attack Haylen.

I expected my old Furry attack to fail.
Also, Rhinox, I disagree with what you said about my new attack on furry; if he turns out to be town, I'll get myself an avatar.

The reason that I thought CK only deserved an FoS at the time was because it was possible CrueKnight had just made a towniemistake.

interesting...

What was your old furry case and why did you expect it to fail? What made attacking Haylen more convenient?

Can you sum up your new attack on Furry? maybe there is something I mised?

Hmmmm...

Now...question: why does Furry have so many votes on him?
-----------------------------------------------------------
Precisely; I'm wondering why Furry has so many votes on him.

I suspect Furry, and will post why when I get time.
---------------------------------------------------
I'll post my attack on Furry later on when I have enough/more time...

In the interim, you argued with ck and scott, and did not mention furry once... what changed?

Sorry, my building was on fire. I've been standing outside in the cold for the last hour and a half while come fire engines came to sort it out. I've writing half the post though. (My posts dont tend to be long, im just a very slow typer.)

Now now, you don't have to go making stuff up to get off the hook...

just joking. The power cuts out in my building at least once a month, so I could be in the same situation some day.

[CrueKnight]

you're avoiding it, CrueKnight.
You wouldnt have made that vote without at least a slight reason.
You can't just forget why you do things. You need to take responsibility.
Where did I apparently misquote?

I gave a reason. I'll say it for the last time: (Valid or not valid, this was my reason back then)
-Someone (i forgot who) said SolemnJ accused someone of something. I said I agree to this and I wanted to hear SolemnJ's response.
-SolemnJ said my argument was bull. And that is no reason to vote him.
-I say I wasn't planning to lynch him so just explain.
---*Everybody gets all over me at this point because I revealed that I was pressuring and not lynching so ZOMGIE were all gonna die and now CrueKnight is a scummie ZOMGZOMGZOMG!

I am going to leave it at that because I feel like we're going in circles.

CrueKnight:

Why did you unvote someone midway through the RVS and vote yourself? Why do you hate being in the spotlight at the beginning?

1. I thought RVSs was the joking stage, so I was messing around. A vote doesn't count unless there is a reason for it. And I didn't have a reason. (For who vote without a reason should get FoSs on them)
2. Because out of experience, it usually gets me killed early on the game. I either get killed by a scummie that is claiming a Vig or something and excuses himself because I looked scummie. Or I claim something important and and of coarse die because the mafia wishes to rid of me.

Low profile games usually keep me alive... well, I only won one mafia game in like 12 games so far so I guess I'm a natural scummie player. :p

[Haylen]

Why do you keep emphasising how scummy you are? You vote yourself for being suspicious and say how you hate being in the spotlight when you werent. It's like you're trying to use your scumminess in reverse psychology.

[Furry]

For the point - Cruelty, removing everything regarding lurking/fluff, what do you think of Haylen?

Furry, it isnt pressure voting someone who is town.
Its pressure voting someone who's alliance you don't have a definite opinion on.

Which is the point of my question... it was not clear what the read was when things were removed from the push. Rhinox gets it and has a different explaination up. What part of this are you not getting so I can explain better?

I guess it was more convenient to attack Haylen.

lol... yeah im happy with my vote

I expected my old Furry attack to fail.
Also, Rhinox, I disagree with what you said about my new attack on furry; if he turns out to be town, I'll get myself an avatar.

There was more then one attack? Also yeah it will fail when its built like it was, you keep making assumptions about my thought process and calling me scum for what you think I was thinking instead of what I was doing.

Also can I choose your avatar when I die?

[Scott Brosius]

you're avoiding it, CrueKnight.
You wouldnt have made that vote without at least a slight reason.
You can't just forget why you do things. You need to take responsibility.
Where did I apparently misquote?

I gave a reason. I'll say it for the last time: (Valid or not valid, this was my reason back then)
-Someone (i forgot who) said SolemnJ accused someone of something. I said I agree to this and I wanted to hear SolemnJ's response.
-SolemnJ said my argument was bull. And that is no reason to vote him.
-I say I wasn't planning to lynch him so just explain.
---*Everybody gets all over me at this point because I revealed that I was pressuring and not lynching so ZOMGIE were all gonna die and now CrueKnight is a scummie ZOMGZOMGZOMG!

I am going to leave it at that because I feel like we're going in circles.

CrueKnight:

Why did you unvote someone midway through the RVS and vote yourself? Why do you hate being in the spotlight at the beginning?

1. I thought RVSs was the joking stage, so I was messing around. A vote doesn't count unless there is a reason for it. And I didn't have a reason. (For who vote without a reason should get FoSs on them)
2. Because out of experience, it usually gets me killed early on the game. I either get killed by a scummie that is claiming a Vig or something and excuses himself because I looked scummie. Or I claim something important and and of coarse die because the mafia wishes to rid of me.

Low profile games usually keep me alive... well, I only won one mafia game in like 12 games so far so I guess I'm a natural scummie player. :p

This entire post is gross. You don't even bother to look back and see why you placed a vote on SolemnJ. You wanted an answer to my question. He told me that I called him a SK, when I did no such thing. So I mentioned that he could have a guilty conscience. This was 7 pages ago. Not exactly a long time ago. Laziness is a scum tell.

Also I don't like how you put your own survival in front of the town's. If you are town, you win when the town wins. Even if you do not survive. Keeping a low profile or being anti-town purposely in order to stay alive is a terribad strategy

Unvote
Vote: CrueKnight

[Torqez]

I don't have a read due to so much wording. I am so lost...

hear hear -_-

[SolemnJ]

My old furry case was based on his reason for voting me in the first place.
The reason I voted for Haylen and thought it more convenient was b/c she had more attention and seemed more scummy.
My suspicioun on Furry is fueled partially by a sixth sense.

@Furry
when you die, Furry, since you said so, even though you are scum, I'll still let you choose it
there are multiple scum this game, so I can pick and choose who to vote for whenever I please
Also, Furry, assumptions must always be made; but only the most likely ones can be believed.

If my case still isnt strong enough, I can wait until Day 2. There are many more scum in the sea.

***

Like CrueKnight.

WHY DID YOU WANT ME TO DEFEND OR EXPLAIN MYSELF IF YOU DIDNT EVEN KNOW THE ATTACK?
I really don't see the point of voting OR bandwagoning me if you don't have the slightest reason, ?except to get tells?

unvote; vote Crueknight

[Rhinox]

1. I thought RVSs was the joking stage, so I was messing around. A vote doesn't count unless there is a reason for it. And I didn't have a reason. (For who vote without a reason should get FoSs on them)

I don't really like self votes at all, because even in the RVS (which doesn't really exist, btw), you should always vote for players you think are scum and be willing to take responsibility for the lynch if it occurs with your vote there. For that reason, no townie should ever vote themselves because that is the one player in the game that you know 100% is not scum. So by voting yourself, you're intentionally going against your own win condition, even if its only for a joke (its not funny at all, anyways). I realize Halyen self-voted too, but your self vote was worse because you unvoted someone else to self vote, which sends a message that you believe you are more likely to be scum than the person you unvoted. Self voting is also just as bad as not voting early in the game if not worse, because you are not pressure people, bandwagoning, or establishing a voting record that may be used for analysis later in the game. The only thing it does is put you in the spolight for it (which can technically ends the RVS, so its not always a bad thing) which is what you said you hated. So, in other words, its stupid, poinless, unhelpful, and unfunny to self vote. Ever. [/soapbox]

2. Because out of experience, it usually gets me killed early on the game. I either get killed by a scummie that is claiming a Vig or something and excuses himself because I looked scummie. Or I claim something important and and of coarse die because the mafia wishes to rid of me.

Low profile games usually keep me alive... well, I only won one mafia game in like 12 games so far so I guess I'm a natural scummie player. :p

Not a very good answer... but I don't think its something scum would say either...


@Haylen: how's that post coming along? Why don't you just post the first half since you say its done and you can add in the second half when you get around to it?

Laziness is a scum tell.

Why?

I don't have a read due to so much wording. I am so lost...

hear hear -_-

What are you lost about? If you're so unclear you can't comment on anything, ask questions to try to become more clear. simply posting that you're lost only shows that you didn't read the thread or you don't care.

Torqez and Deathnote: Why are you both currently voting someone if you're both lost and have no idea whats going on? Support your votes.

My old furry case was based on his reason for voting me in the first place.
The reason I voted for Haylen and thought it more convenient was b/c she had more attention and seemed more scummy.
My suspicioun on Furry is fueled partially by a sixth sense.

So, it was basically just OMGUS, then?

What did Haylen say that made her seem scummier?

Do you realize that going with the popular vote solely because its popular is sort of a scummy way to play?

[SolemnJ]

Hm...it was more of the WAY he voted for me, not THAT he voted for me. So no.

I dont goin with the popular vote b/c it is popular. Not solely b/c its popular, but b/c uts popular and I agree with it.

[Rhinox]

What did Haylen say that made her seem scummier?

[Kdub]

Vote Count

CrueKnight (4)

- VistaSoldier, Torqez, Scott Brosius, SolemnJ

Furry (1)

- ~Vigilante~

cruelty (1)

- Haylen

WarWound (0)

-

Scott Brosius (0)

-

Rhinox (0)

-

Wickedestjr (0)

-

malpascp (0)

-

~Vigilante~ (0)

-

SolemnJ (1)

- Furry

DeathNote (0)

-

Torqez (0)

-

VistaSoldier (2)

- DeathNote, Wickedestjr

Katniss (0)

-

Haylen (1)

- cruelty

No Lynch (0)

-

Not Voting (5)

- WarWound, Katniss, malpascp, CrueKnight, Rhinox

15 players alive, 8 votes needed to lynch.

Looking for replacements for VistaSoldier and ~Vigilante~ (never picked up role PM).

[Scott Brosius]

Laziness is a scum tell.

Why?

A lazy player is not a scum-hunting player.

[SolemnJ]

I am now alive in 3. I am dead in 1. And the reason i wasnt posting was because i had a very unstable mylo and lylo in a game that i've finished just now, and I won it

Heya, sorry i've been pretty ill recently. Managed to catch a bug going round a place I was in for less than 2 days. It has not been cool.

Anywho, I will re-read and post ASAP.

Haylen, you still haven't contributed. A half-assed answer and some bullshit about spoiler tags is not contribution. My vote stands.

Ok. Let's put it this way. I'll give you a riddle. You're in a game on page ten that is nowhere near deadline. You're in another game, you're at L-1 as is another guy, everybody is voting and you have less that 24 hours to convince somebody to change their vote from yourself to the other guy. Where do you concentrate your efforts for those 24 hours?

Haylen's excuse(s) are very inconsistent.

First she says he is in Lylo, changes her mind and says she was sick, and then goes back to her lylo excuse again.

During that sick-excuse post, Haylen shows that she has time to re-read, but not to spend enough time trying to contribute to the thread.

Other than this, all of her posts have been 90% spam, and the other 10% just redundancy.

An inconsistent excuse to me is a sign of a liar,
especially where she notes that she can and has re-read, but is unable to post real thoughts.

unvote; vote Haylen

here we go.

[Rhinox]

ok... makes sense.

Where is everyone? I still have other questions needing answers.

[CrueKnight]

This entire post is gross. You don't even bother to look back and see why you placed a vote on SolemnJ. You wanted an answer to my question. He told me that I called him a SK, when I did no such thing. So I mentioned that he could have a guilty conscience. This was 7 pages ago. Not exactly a long time ago. Laziness is a scum tell.

Ah there you go. That's the story.
The reason I'm not going back to scum hunt is because the first several pages are messy full of jokes and non-sense. That is why I didn't pursue SolemnJ any further as you couldn't really tell if someone was really scummie unless you

pressured

them.
If I dogmatically looked at voting habits and scummie wordings, I'd say Haylen is definite scumball. But everybody knows that most of the guys were not even serious back then and could only pick on a few things in the air. (like Scott did and I backed him up)
7 pages is a lot to me, btw to put on top of that.

Also I don't like how you put your own survival in front of the town's. If you are town, you win when the town wins. Even if you do not survive. Keeping a low profile or being anti-town purposely in order to stay alive is a terribad strategy

What do you mean putting my survival in front of the town's? I'm not putting the town at any risk that I know of.... except for me myself getting lynched which I don't think is a good idea.

And this is what being in the spotlight gets me.

I would go back if I knew it was proper evidence for the town, but I know I would be digging mud. How would SolemnJ know that Scott was a SK? He wouldn't know.
It's all guesswork and only time and lynches would give out real reliable info.
The RVS could "real" or not "real". But let's get the facts straight. (Almost) everybody threw votes around everywhere. It was a joke.
It was the very nature from the start. And if you go back to my first few posts, you know I was confused of the chaos. After a bit I chimed in.
So don't point at me and say I did the town harm for voting myself or SolemnJ for little or no evidence.

Hm...it was more of the WAY he voted for me, not THAT he voted for me. So no.

I voted for you in support of Scott's accusation.

[Rhinox]

Missed this post somehow...

Laziness is a scum tell.

Why?

A lazy player is not a scum-hunting player.

good point.

--------------------------

I voted for you in support of Scott's accusation.

I think he was talking about furry there, not you.

[Wickedestjr]

@wicked - What case of SJs? As far as I can tell its all misunderstanding/misrep over views on pressure votes.

Post 267 is the case I agreed with.

Note that these points I have also covered.

Then either defend yourself again, or show me where you defended against those attacks.

The argument isn't on SolemnJ anymore. It isn't about me accusing him. It's about the results. I don't want to go back and point out the details but by this time, I have forgotten what SolemnJ said that got me suspicious.

What do you mean the argument isn't this or the argument isn't that? I'm not going to forget about something because other people have, unless I see a good reason to. Also, what do you mean you don't know what SolemnJ did to make you suspicious?

As for me being in the spotlight, there were 2 if not 3 guys Fingering at me while we were in the Joker Mode.

Who? What posts?

I expected my old Furry attack to fail.
Also, Rhinox, I disagree with what you said about my new attack on furry; if he turns out to be town, I'll get myself an avatar.

So your old attack of Furry was different from your current case?
Why do you care if your old case would fail? Why not post it anyway?

Well this is impossible to prove and a lame excuse.

Rhinox's point about me regarding my response to Katniss's comment was also unprovable. Also, don't people normally read posts in order? How should I have defended myself if what I am saying is actually the truth?

The Katniss comment is still a null tell. Townies have a collective goal of catching scum, and one way to help the town do that is to not sidetrack the town into thinking your scum when you have the inside knowledge of knowing you're not. If Katniss showed a consistent record of only defending and trying not to look scummy, that would be one thing, but one comment saying he wants to "hopefully prove he's not scum" is not "devoting his time trying to look pro-town". Katniss has appeared to be scumhunting in this game, as far as I can tell.

We could continue arguing over this forever, but I don't feel like it. It is pretty obvious to me that the argument about this point is mostly because we have different opinions. So, I don't see why this accusation is valid.

Arguing that the case on you is bad is not much of an argument, but I'll play along. Suppose you're right and the case on you is the worst possible case... is town or scum more likely to make a bad case?

Scum.

Would you rather players sit back and not present cases at all until there is a good case?

Yes. There is no point spending the whole game making bad cases. Especially this late in the game.

Can there ever be a good case that way?

Yes. I believe I have made good cases this game. Such as my cases against VistaSoldier and CrueKnight.

I guess it was more convenient to attack Haylen.

lol... yeah im happy with my vote

Why does that comment make you more happy with your vote?


SolemnJ - Why do you give up on your Furry case?


Does anybody want to comment on my vote for VistaSoldier?

[DeathNote]

I joined in on Vista... although I can't remember why. Well, no need to vote someone without a reason.

Unvote

[Rhinox]

<snip>

Arguing that the case on you is bad is not much of an argument, but I'll play along. Suppose you're right and the case on you is the worst possible case... is town or scum more likely to make a bad case?

Scum.

Would you rather players sit back and not present cases at all until there is a good case?

Yes. There is no point spending the whole game making bad cases. Especially this late in the game.

Can there ever be a good case that way?

Yes. I believe I have made good cases this game. Such as my cases against VistaSoldier and CrueKnight.

<snip>

Does anybody want to comment on my vote for VistaSoldier?

I disagree with you at the fundamental theory level, but I see no reason to continue because I do not beleive your answers are scummy. Unless you want me to directly respond...

On your vote on vistasoldier: meh... not really a strong enough case to lynch his replacement on.


This game needs more Haylen

[Kdub]

Faraday replaces ~Vigilante~.

[Furry]

@wicked - What case of SJs? As far as I can tell its all misunderstanding/misrep over views on pressure votes.

Post 267 is the case I agreed with.

And that not an inconsistancy, which I addressed already too

I guess it was more convenient to attack Haylen.

lol... yeah im happy with my vote

Why does that comment make you more happy with your vote? [/quote]

Taking a lynch of a lesser suspect because its easy when deadline is not forcing it to happen is a scumtell. He is more inclined to just get a lynch then to get what he views as an ideal lynch

Farada replaces ~Vigilante~.

Yay, luv triangle is back! Fuzzy handcuffs for all! *glee*

[Faraday]

Fuzzy handcuffs? Hmmm.

I'm here, I'll have a post up in like an hour, I'm a quick reader

[Faraday]

Wait is there 3 week deadlines? That means deadline is soon?

[Rhinox]

Hi Faraday welcome to the fun.

Status: Day 1
Deadline: November 25, ~ 8:30 am MST

didn't realize we were under deadline... not yet impending, but it certainly changes things.