Border of Touhou and Mafia ~ Game Over!

[DeathNote]

Told you I would win...

[Elmo]

DAY 4 ACTIONS:
Zakeri - Daykills Pesco47 (fails due to NK-immunity)

Wat? It doesn't matter at all, but that's weird.

Hm, gg. I was pretty confident town would vig+lynch tubby+zwets but I didn't realistically expect to win at that point.. I'm not really sure how I coulda played any better through the game, perhaps I should have just outright bussed Mufasa, but I was worried about the numbers coupled with lack of nightkill. I don't think it makes much of a difference, though.. I preferred him being nightkilled than lynched. Eh.

I'm biased, but I thought Sotty was fairly obv town. I'm pretty curious why you'd vig me before zwets / tubby, Plum..?

The obvious blunder in this setup, if you haven't seen it already, came with the Phantasmal group's "puppets". random.org did a good job of picking a mix of players, but neither my reviewers nor me realized they could be NKd... and they weren't exactly prime NK material when they were killed.

I kind of like the inverse lyncher mechanic. It's not a bad setup, we got more than a little unlucky here. I think the problem is that the penalty for having puppets die is too harsh, so you have to have either too many and narrow the mislynches, or too few and probably die horrible. It's very harsh to lose a member, I would've gone for something like "if you lose 3 out of 4, then you pick a mafia member to suicide if more than one is alive" or something. An idea I like quite is to have a townie pair as a mafia power enabler. That is, mafia have a group roleblocking as long as one of those two townies are alive. Something like that.

Essentially, the primary reason that Mufasa got caught was the very unnatural reaction he had over mipe. This could have been done (a lot) better, but it's still essentially justified in my opinion. (I honestly thought mipe was town and a bad lynch, but then I'm like that.) It's almost identical to having a scumbuddy under pressure, but it'll happen a lot more often. You basically have to act somewhat unnatural or risk them dying. I don't know if you accounted for it, but it basically exponentially increased the number of associative tells we'd have to drop to survive long-term. Due to 50% it being actually scummy, 50% not-updating-beliefs-bias, the fact that mipe flipped town didn't take any of the heat off Mufasa/Pesco for defending him.

I think another issue is Phantasmals not having a nightkill without pretty much anything to make up for it, really; it's irritating but not actually physically

painful

until you add in the lack of a nightkill. I would find myself saying "damn, I wish we had a nightkill" pretty much every five minutes. I mean, we start out at 3:3:11. If we lynch the other mafia 1-2-3 and they kill only townies, then we're left with 3:8 nightless. That's

still

horrendous, even before town power roles. Influencing the town by giving out kills is dubious at best; they can just pseudo-vote in the worst case.

I'm pretty much drawing a blank on how we were supposed to have an equal chance of winning as the other group, who had a godfather, didn't have puppets, and had a nightkill. The only thing they can't do is believably claim inventor which counts for very little, really - scum inventor is very possible, and we'll just be nightkilled if we're sufficiently believed anyway.

To that end, Xyl's ruthless policy lynching won the game.

This I'm confused by. The first two policy lynches hit town, Hulk was pretty obviously scum and wasn't a policy lynch, dramonic got caught by role info, and tubby seemed to be process of elimination; there wasn't a single lurker lynch. I'm kind of missing how policy lynches helped the town at all.

In other news, I've been playing the demo of, uh, "Embodiment of Scarlet Devil" lots. Game reminds me of Ikaruga. Thanks, V

i

, I think I'll soon have a new addiction

[tubby216]

i apologize to my team. I tried, My play was off this game. I would have done better had i started off the game in this slot. Replacing in was hard and i diddn't understand the flavor. However Vi, another well ran game and really enjoyable. I really liked the player list in this game you guys were fun to play with.

Vi if you need another replacement or have another one coming up soon drop me a line i'll /in.

[dramonic]

In other news, I've been playing the demo of, uh, "Embodiment of Scarlet Devil" lots. Game reminds me of Ikaruga. Thanks, V

i

, I think I'll soon have a new addiction

I can link you to the real thing if you wish.
Now if I could clear it on hard it'd be nice...

[Vi]

i apologize to my team. I tried, My play was off this game. I would have done better had i started off the game in this slot. Replacing in was hard and i diddn't understand the flavor. However Vi, another well ran game and really enjoyable. I really liked the player list in this game you guys were fun to play with.

Vi if you need another replacement or have another one coming up soon drop me a line i'll /in.

To be fair,

nobody

understood the flavor except the people who dropped in from other forums.

Thanks, tubby. Thanks, everyone. This game turned out to be fewer than 1000 posts long without any loss of gameplay, and there was only one replacement.

[dramonic]

Vi if you need another replacement or have another one coming up soon drop me a line i'll /in.

To be fair,

nobody

understood the flavor except the people who dropped in from other forums.
[/quote]

and the people who pre-inned XP

[Sotty7]

This game was interesting. I think I got a little lazy at the end there and wanted to claim my information. Can't really fault Plum for her vig with that in mind, still it would have been nice to claim

I was going to claim my hiding behind KMD on day three but then I saw that Spyrex flipped RB and he was pretty suspicious of me so I thought he might have RB'ed me. Guessed wrong there.

Another fun Vi game. This is turning out to be a trend. Yay town.

[Xylthixlm]

Can't really fault Plum for her vig

Yes I can.

[forbiddanlight]

Some comments on actions that I forgot to put in the previous post.

f-light's invention theft worked both times she used it... but then they didn't do anything :\
She stole the ability to null someone's vote from zwetschenwasser, and then

used it on zwetschenwasser

... but zwet wasn't able to pull off one of his dramatic hammers that day :/

Also, Mufasa played his role terribly. If nobody's going to say that, I will.

I think the Town got more use out of the Inventions than their actual abilities...

That's nice. And what was wrong will targetting Zwet with his own ability?

And I roleblocked the Roleblocker. Good going me

Wellp, I did nothing this game and died fast.

Why was I killed again?

[Kmd4390]

damn you Kmd!

wait... you're not even a tracker/watcher 0_o

...I want an explanation...

Someone gave me a 1-shot watch.

My inventions mostly would have hurt town, so I only used one. It was that same night, the reason I was seen (by myself) targeting Spy. If he survived, he'd have learned something about the game. That's why I watched him. Either we'd have new info or I'd catch scum killing him.

scum killed you by accident

something redirected us.

Zakeri busdrove me and RBT.

[Kmd4390]

Wait

......

....

My last game is....

......

OVER.

Wow. I can hardly believe it.

[dramonic]

That's nice. And what was wrong will targetting Zwet with his own ability?

And I roleblocked the Roleblocker. Good going me

Wellp, I did nothing this game and died fast.

Why was I killed again?

Because Kmd had been saved day 1 and we didnt want to target him again, Xyl was completely berserk and you were the player we considered a threat the most (By we I mean me, since my acolytes kinda followed me XS)

I should have known you're terrible at scumhunting

[Xylthixlm]

Xyl was completely berserk

Sig'd.

[forbiddanlight]

That's nice. And what was wrong will targetting Zwet with his own ability?

And I roleblocked the Roleblocker. Good going me

Wellp, I did nothing this game and died fast.

Why was I killed again?

Because Kmd had been saved day 1 and we didnt want to target him again, Xyl was completely berserk and you were the player we considered a threat the most (By we I mean me, since my acolytes kinda followed me XS)

I should have known you're terrible at scumhunting

Yeah, srsly. I just liked using my power. But, at any rate that was odd dying so quickly.

[Vi]

Some comments on actions that I forgot to put in the previous post.

f-light's invention theft worked both times she used it... but then they didn't do anything :\
She stole the ability to null someone's vote from zwetschenwasser, and then

used it on zwetschenwasser

... but zwet wasn't able to pull off one of his dramatic hammers that day :/

Also, Mufasa played his role terribly. If nobody's going to say that, I will.

I think the Town got more use out of the Inventions than their actual abilities...

That's nice. And what was wrong will targetting Zwet with his own ability?

Nothing except that it would have been even more dramatic if I had told you what you had done

[Incognito]

Just wanted to thank Vi for not flaking on this game -- those role actions and resolutions looked somewhat tricky to handle.

[Vi]

Just wanted to thank Vi for not flaking on this game -- those role actions and resolutions looked somewhat tricky to handle.

Thank you. I'm sorry I kind of dumped reviewer duties onto you.

(Future reference: If I ask you to review a setup, you WILL get more than you expected... and more than I expected in all likelihood. Refuse accordingly.)

[forbiddanlight]

Some comments on actions that I forgot to put in the previous post.

f-light's invention theft worked both times she used it... but then they didn't do anything :\
She stole the ability to null someone's vote from zwetschenwasser, and then

used it on zwetschenwasser

... but zwet wasn't able to pull off one of his dramatic hammers that day :/

Also, Mufasa played his role terribly. If nobody's going to say that, I will.

I think the Town got more use out of the Inventions than their actual abilities...

That's nice. And what was wrong will targetting Zwet with his own ability?

Nothing except that it would have been even more dramatic if I had told you what you had done

Eh. I'd still have done it.

The fact that Orin was not appearing in this game actually is a relief, since it means I didn't miss the chance to be her.

And Marisa is like my second fave anyway.

[Xylthixlm]

Just wanted to thank Vi for not flaking on this game -- those role actions and resolutions looked somewhat tricky to handle.

Thank you. I'm sorry I kind of dumped reviewer duties onto you.

(Future reference: If I ask you to review a setup, you WILL get more than you expected... and more than I expected in all likelihood. Refuse accordingly.)

If only you'd learned that lesson

before

I asked you to review my setup.

[Vi]

Just wanted to thank Vi for not flaking on this game -- those role actions and resolutions looked somewhat tricky to handle.

Thank you. I'm sorry I kind of dumped reviewer duties onto you.

(Future reference: If I ask you to review a setup, you WILL get more than you expected... and more than I expected in all likelihood. Refuse accordingly.)

If only you'd learned that lesson

before

I asked you to review my setup.

Truth.
Who do you think you are,

me?

[dramonic]

Shameimaru was a fakeclaim, so likewise I dont suffer the "not having that role". Although Koishi is badass

[Plum]

I'm biased, but I thought Sotty was fairly obv town. I'm pretty curious why you'd vig me before zwets / tubby, Plum..?

I vigged Sotty because of interactions I thought I saw between her and Hulk/Dram. If I were scum I probably would have made a case and everything before striking - I tell the truth when I say I'm generally more cautious as scum and have generally moved in the direction of less caution as Town - but for now all I can say is I thought I saw interactions and I was probably overthinking it way too much (I'd have probably gone for the only gut-scum pick if I was really smart, and that, at the time, was . . . you, Elmo. Part of why I didn't was Kmd's vote analysis, which probably also influenced me in the way of killing Sotty).

Can't really fault Plum for her vig

Yes I can.

The play might have been poor, but I offed the last Phantasmal - and seriously, no one was looking at it like that before, at least not openly (and I

did

actually notice that before striking and I think I took it into account as well. Though once Tubby got offed and such we'd probably have gone in that direction). Elmo wasn't really being looked at much, so at least the poor play had a decent benefit.

In other news, once I decide someone's such obvious scum that I'll have to throttle you through the internet if you're not, that player

is

scum. Granted it only happens when the player is scummy

and

tries to suspect me, and granted it's only happened twice, so small sample size. But it feels okay.

[Xylthixlm]

In other news, once I decide someone's such obvious scum that I'll have to throttle you through the internet if you're not, that player

is

scum.

Yes. This, exactly. Note that such a player coming up town

does not change the fact that they were scum

.

If you maintain this attitude you, too, can become a berserk policy lyncher.

[Vi]

In other news, once I decide someone's such obvious scum that I'll have to throttle you through the internet if you're not, that player

is

scum.

Yes. This, exactly. Note that such a player coming up town

does not change the fact that they were scum

.

If you maintain this attitude you, too, can become a berserk policy lyncher.

As a general rule, if you get lynched and I was on your wagon, you deserved it.

"Scum" means "people who don't deserve to live" as much as "Mafia", right?

[Xylthixlm]

As a general rule, if you get lynched and I was on your wagon, you deserved it.

As a general rule, if you get lynched, I was on your wagon.