Mini 873 Plainview Game Over

[MordyS]

Sanjay, do you mind me asking how carefully you've read the thread so far? I understand it's long and there's a lot of dense posts, but I'm getting the impression that you're trying to play catch-up by asking old questions anew and pretending that you're uncovering something fresh.

[SpyreX]

I'll freely admit that the words and who they are coming from in the back and forth GM fights are blurring but I sure thought you were a proponent of VT Gambit San.

[foilist13]

foilist13, here is my main question:

WHAT THE HECK?

What were you hoping for exactly?

How does this explain why you posted your obviously made up reasons?

You typed that you would go into more depth, but then you realized you didn't really have any more depth to go into, so instead of just backspacing out of that problem, you decided to misrepresent your thought processes and go into more depth anyway.

When did i say my reasons were made up? I said I'd go more into depth

after

I posted those reasons. As in more in depth than those reasons.

Do you want a time line?

1) My name mistake is pointed out to me.

2) I'm thinking about other aspects of the game, namely my suspects,

not the person my vote was on.

I was looking for new material.

3) Archaebob posts an attack on me and votes for me based on my misvote. I think "oh" and go about defending myself from the argument. Didn't occur to me to actually change my vote when I got done with my post. I was busy responding to Archaebob's arguments, not thinking about my own actions.

4) The OMGUS part of it comes into my mind when MordyS attacks me, and I decide to leave my vote there.

5) The other reasons I posted occur to me one at a time, but i was busy building my muffin case, so i chose not to post them, rather to justly change my vote to someone I had legitimate suspicions of.

6) I continue to be attacked after my muffin case, so I post the reasons I came up with earlier.

Note: I didn't have all those reasons in my head when my mistake was pointed out and I didn't change my vote. I came up with them after the fact, partly to justify it to myself. I did not take the attacks on me very seriously at first, because I figured it was a weak case at best, and was based on a single mistake, which in itself I found fairly meaningless as my vote wasn't accomplishing anything no matter where it was. I suppose i should have learned my lesson in newbie 846, but I did not think anything of those attacks until a wagon started forming.

I can't think of any way to go more in depth into the whole sequence of events. I think I've bloody well defended myself enough by now. There isn't anywhere else to go with this. You've pointed out all the contradictions, and I've responded with all my thoughts at the time. I'm not in a position to refuse to answer more questions, but it is starting to grate on me.

Now Sanjay, answer my question.

[Papa Zito]

Two reasons. One because I'm not fully caught up and two because I wasn't interested in pressuring him when I made that case.

Arrite, so help me understand what the point of the case was then. Typically cases are built to convince the rest of the town that hey ho look I've found scum, so I have to question A. why you didn't even vote for your own case (lol) and B. why you bothered to post it if you're just going to settle on Foilist for strategic value.

Also reiterating:

Also, while I'm here, who else is scum?

[AlmasterGM]

I don't believe your claim that it was deliberate baiting. With this in mind, your motives at the time of the post come into question? If, as I believe, it wasn't legitimate scumhunting, then what was it? The logic is, quite simply, ridiculous. You make a stupid post and those that comment on it are scum?it's laughable. It is not a valid point, there is no logic being applied, all you're doing is trying to retroactively justify your own error. The fact that you're backing it up with claims that I'm trying to get you lynched when I'm clearly not further degrades your case.

No warrant, all assertions. Try again.

I'm tired of the feet dragging.

I want a GM lynch. I'm kinda floored by Sanjay's defense at this point in the game, but hey drawin lines is awesome regardless.

We're rehasing old ground and need a flip to keep on pluggin on. I'm absolutely not buying the "VT gambit" and thus I don't even care about a claim :O

Lets get this party started.

Blah blah blah I am so confident in my abilities I can never be wrong! I'll claim: Doctor.

FAQ for those who may need some assistance deciphering this claim:

Q: Premature claims are scummy!
A: Yes, but we only have a week left. If I wait until T-3 to claim, we have no time to do anything. Also, L-2 is hardly premature.

Q: What about your previous vanilla softclaim?
A: See my previous post #25. My options were limited.

Q: You're lying.
A: Theoretically, it doesn't matter what you think, but if you insist on being stubborn then lynch me and have a nice day.

Q: You suck at this game.
A: Fine. I still know how to use my role.

[Sanjay]

Thanks, foilist13! That is actually what I wanted.

Sanjay, do you mind me asking how carefully you've read the thread so far? I understand it's long and there's a lot of dense posts, but I'm getting the impression that you're trying to play catch-up by asking old questions anew and pretending that you're uncovering something fresh.

I suppose that's a fair impression because most of my points have been coming from fairly early in the thread, but I've actually read the thread a bunch of times.

As for my comments on the AlmasterGM wagon, I'm not pretending to uncover anything there. I just felt like it was important to post my thoughts about the wagon.

I thought I was uncovering something fresh with foilist13. lexprod sort of hinted at what I was talking about, but I thought I was uncovering something fresh there. My bad?

I suppose I didn't need to ask you the most recent question about AlmasterGM.

[SpyreX]

Ohh wow a claim!

A PR claim!

Of doctor in fact!

(Note: Real doctor shut mouth, kthx)

And I've got no problems admitting I'm wrong. However, even IF I was wrong about this (which I doubt) I'd be wrong for all the right reasons so :shrug:

Grease this pig.

[foilist13]

Even being a power role only goes so far if you won't do any scumhunting. You've spent almost the entire thread half assing a bunch of illogical defenses, why don't you post something new?

How bout, gee I dunno, an accusation? A scum list? A case? Something?

[SpyreX]

Foil, foil foil... you gotta be gentler with your bussing, sheesh.

[Papa Zito]

Yo SpyreX, just so I'm clear:

You want to lynch the uncountered Doc.

Amirite?

[foilist13]

@SpyreX - What are you talking about?

[SpyreX]

PZ:

You damn straight. More specifically, I don't want our real doc to claim to fix this.

There was absolutely no reason to claim VT. There is no useful gambit from it.

Doctor claim is one of the more damaging moves on a scum going down in flames.

[SpyreX]

Doubleplus note: If GM is a scum PR (which I highly expect) go ahead and lynch foil tomorrow asap if he's not dead tonight. No reason to belabor the point.

If he's a goon, well... we'll see.

If he's actually the doc I'll eat my...wait. No. I go there too much. I'll just be crying tears of blood from all the :headdesk:

[MordyS]

Almaster the game I read with you in it was Stratego mafia, and you definitely weren't this aggressive in there, is there a different game in particular I should be reading to see this prejudice you speak of?

I was a cop in that game, so I had to play conservatively. Read some of my vanilla town games. Honestly, though, there is really nothing to be gained from this - if I was scum, I wouldn't be playing to my scum meta.

Blah blah blah I am so confident in my abilities I can never be wrong! I'll claim: Doctor.

Ok, let's skip the VT gambit for a second. Now that you've claimed a PR, wanna answer Gammagooey's original question that you ducked by lying?

[Papa Zito]

You damn straight.

Oho no good sir. We don't lynch an uncountered townie PR. If he's telling the truth the scum will take care of it, or if they don't he lives to see another day. In the meantime we lynch another good candidate(hint: cruelty). If he's lying we can always get him later.

[AlmasterGM]

Ok, let's skip the VT gambit for a second. Now that you've claimed a PR, wanna answer Gammagooey's original question that you ducked by lying?

Mini 844.
Mini 851.
Mini 863 (ongoing).

Much more aggressive in all of these.

[SpyreX]

No no no.

Doc is absolutely unconfirmable.

The scum absolutely, guaranteed, will not take care of this (ohh snap roleblocked, etc, etc).

If you can give me ANY good reason for the VT Gambit that isn't some form of survival mechanism mayyybe I can be persuaded to shift to foil. Maaybe.

The doc claim is damn near textbook what I expected from scum.

[SpyreX]

(secret note: this makes me think it less likely they have an RB but that is conjecture)

[Papa Zito]

If you can give me ANY good reason for the VT Gambit that isn't some form of survival mechanism mayyybe I can be persuaded to shift to foil. Maaybe.

You're making me defend him. This is my sadface. --->

How about: he's a VT who's trying to protect the doc while simultaneously saving his own skin.

If he's not scum they'll be all OH GOD DOC YES KILL HIM NAO and we'll just be down a VT. A VT who'd normally have no chance of getting NKed I might add, given all the wringing of hands/gnashing of teeth/rending of garments ITT that he's not dead yet.

You throw roleblocker in the mix - why the hell wouldn't they kill the doc, and roleblock someone else? A guaranteed doc death and possible/maybe cop block would be worth far more methinks. I mean, as scum if you don't kill him off you're risking your RB is offed by a vig or something and then you've got a live doc mucking things up still right?

(Mafia 101 conversation is weiiiiiiird)

[SpyreX]

If we're going to 101 - lynch all liars exists for a reason (even if its not an exact truism).

That lie was designed for self-preservation. In a defensive nature.

Of a role that is, ultimately, not confirmable but is VERY easy to give the illusion of confirmability.

That is common enough that a CC would make sense. Yet, the CC would guarantee a strong PR death.

Yea, a scum is a scum is a scum.

(Although I think your defense is town so)

[MordyS]

Wait, Papa, you think that he softclaimed VT one page (what was it? 3? 2? 4?) and just now claimed doctor to protect some other theoretical doctor? WTF?

[MordyS]

He clearly claimed doctor because he doesn't want to be lynched. Now either he's actually doctor and wants us to lynch someone else today and he'll be NK'ed, or he's actually scum and is lying about being doctor. There's no third possibility where he's actually VT and is claiming doctor to protect some theoretical doctor from being NK'd... just ridiculous dude. So there are only two possibilities for the softclaim VT. Either he softclaimed to take scum attention off him during the NK because he's actually a doctor, or he softclaimed to lie then and now that he's heading towards lynch, he's going to try to force the Town doctor out with a counterclaim.

AFAICT those are the only two possibilities.

[Papa Zito]

Oy. Silly rabbit, all bandwagon claims are defensive.

FTR I'm

not

asking for a counterclaim, that's Day 3/4 material.

But I'm not wanting to lynch a claimed PR either.

[Papa Zito]

He clearly claimed doctor because he doesn't want to be lynched. Now either he's actually doctor and wants us to lynch someone else today and he'll be NK'ed, or he's actually scum and is lying about being doctor. There's no third possibility where he's actually VT and is claiming doctor to protect some theoretical doctor from being NK'd... just ridiculous dude. So there are only two possibilities for the softclaim VT. Either he softclaimed to take scum attention off him during the NK because he's actually a doctor, or he softclaimed to lie then and now that he's heading towards lynch, he's going to try to force the Town doctor out with a counterclaim.

Feel free to join the chorus screaming NO COUNTERCLAIM PLZ then. Because that's the road to fail, I agree.

Also, Option 3 is what we call a townie gambit, and it's perfectly legit imo tbh.

Anyway, my opinion on AGMGate is pretty obvious, and I won't be voting him today. The rest of you kids can do as you want.

[MordyS]

How about: he's a VT who's trying to protect the doc while simultaneously saving his own skin.

If he's not scum they'll be all OH GOD DOC YES KILL HIM NAO and we'll just be down a VT. A VT who'd normally have no chance of getting NKed I might add, given all the wringing of hands/gnashing of teeth/rending of garments ITT that he's not dead yet.

So you're backing off your explanation. Can you give an explanation for him softclaiming VT? Or do you really think he softclaimed it because he wanted to take any PR attention off him. Because 1) I doubt there was any PR attention on him. He was on so many people's scum lists any scum (all this assuming he isn't one himself) would've left him alive to sow confusion in town, 2) he could've easily have given the answer he gave me on this page -- ie, that he's been way more aggressive in other games. instead of lying about his role, and 3) lynch all liars.