Mini 861: Hellsing Mafia - (Game Over!)

[Doombunny9]

Jesus Christ! I was right! SSK doesn't read the game. Even when there's an entire fucking wall of text about him he doesn't even say anything about it let alone answer the questions I dierected to him. I still want to hear a claim from you SSK, you are at L1 and from what I've seen I'm sure as hell not going to unvote you.

[Netopalis]

Chaco, even if by some random twist of fate you are indeed town, that doesn't necessarily make me mafia. Multiple people have considered you scummy - the fact that I've been at the forefront may mean that my posts should come under scrutiny, but it doesn't mean that I should be the autolynch.

[Chaco]

Not at you Neto, that's been reserved for Doom.

One of the main reasons I want to be lynched is for town, tht and yhe fact that I cannot definitely
disprove being scum. Lynching me will do just that and bump you in the right direction.

[Doombunny9]

Not at you Neto, that's been reserved for Doom.

One of the main reasons I want to be lynched is for town, tht and yhe fact that I cannot definitely
disprove being scum. Lynching me will do just that and bump you in the right direction.

You cannot say 100% that I will be lynched if you flip town. While yes I admit that it will make me seem scummier it won't mean I'll get lynched. Unless you can prove that I'm scum you cannot 100% say that I will be lynched.

[magnus_orion]

MO: Why are you against the Chaco vote? I feel that there's ample evidence for it.

Also, how do you feel about SSK, given that we'll never be able to deduce his alignment if he posts at his current rate and style?

SSK's content devoid posts are normal for him...
They're hardly a scumtell, and definitely the wrong reason for hanging whomever we end up killing.
He's solidly neutral, and I'm fine with that. My attitude toward mafia is basically "not pro-town =/= scummy"
Rather I look for things I can treat as scummy and chase them instead. Mafiassk isn't exhibiting those traits, so he's null, because I don't have any town tells from him, either.

I'm against A chaco lynch for similar reasons. The only reason I'm getting annoyed at him is because his play is rather distracting, and I think he's town (based on his claim), but his play is so poor that he's wasting much
of the day by causing us to discuss him.

Also, he's pulled the ultimate move of obscene attention whoring by encouraging his own lynch and believing that this would actually convince us of his opinions, as if the only reason we don't believe him is because we're unsure of his alignment, which is of course utter nonsense since we're not sure of anyone's alignment, but we still listen to people and consider their opinions regardless. That said, players who I've seen play similarly have an annoying habit of flipping town upon lynch.

A shotty lynch is a much more appealing lynch by comparison. His primary case was an attempt to string someone else using scum's interaction toward them, without any indication in the opposite direction. This means his case is based, more or less,

entirely

on evidence that was in

direct control

of the mafia. If he had any other

compelling

evidence, I must have missed it.

[Netopalis]

But by your own argument, anti-town != scummy. Shotty's misrepresentation of the connection between two players is not necessarily scummy - it is bad logic, which is anti-town, but not scummy.


I don't buy this argument at all, but it is the logical conclusion of your statements.

[Chaco]

You could have left me at anytime, but I never saw it happen. Nor did you push it.

[Netopalis]

What the heck are you talking about, Chaco? Are you honestly saying that if we wanted to avoid being a lynch after you, we should drop the case on you? You're just barely squeaking by right now, thanks to the good graces of Magnus and ABR. I wouldn't push it.

[Chaco]

Good graces of two players should no account for town, no? You're pretty much down to Lynch anything with two legs and isn't Doom.

Vig tonight and prove your claim, we're not going any further with your WIFOM mess. You want SSK dead? Vig him. It proves you. Also, Ill be watching the how they died. Death flavors are distinctivE been factions, and further more players. If it matches the presumed "scum" kill, prepare for a shit storm.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Don't strawman Neto. Chaco, why aren't you voting for MafiaSSK? Do you think that there's a better chance you be scum than MafiaSSK?

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm starting to reconsider Chaco being town. I might have misinterpreted his willingness to die as giving up because no matter how hard he fights to survive the lynch today, he thinks he will still be vigged by Neto. Chaco is pretty much on the level of MafiaSSK now.

[Chaco]

Don't make an ultimatum based argument. The me or him thing will not work.

I want Doom, Im not settling on an SSK lynch unless we're deadlining it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

At deadline we won't need your vote in the first place, since it will only take 1/2 of the normal majority.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Anyway, if anyone wants to lynch MafiaSSK or Chaco, I'm game.

I don't want to lynch DB anymore.

[Chaco]

I'm not giving up, and if I were I wouldn't still be pushing towards Doom.

Meta says SSK is town.

[Netopalis]

You're really in no position to make threats, Chaco. Right now, you are so far up my scumlist that I've mounted a giant, blinking neon sign with your name at the top of it. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced that we will be able to build a majority.

I also don't like your insistence that I vig tonight. If we happen to mislynch, I vig incorrectly and we have an SK, the town will probably be at a 3-2-1 situation. Not pleasant.

Next, you claim that I am willing to lynch anybody other than DB. This is not true. I have expressed little-to-no interest in lynching ABR, Forbiddanlight, Magnus_Orion, or Konowa today. In fact, the only players that I have mentioned myself as being willing to lynch are Shotty, you and SSK. If I've accidentally accused someone else, please point it out, but I'm reasonably sure that I wouldn't have.

Further, flavor does not equal alignment. This is a fallacy that needs to be avoided in these sorts of games. The mod is not going to confirm anyone through the night scene, and even if he does confirm that I am indeed Alexander Anderson, there is no guarantee that Alexander Anderson is not a Serial Killer.

Finally, how am I being WIFOMy? I have not posed two equal and unknowable choices to the town, nor have I attempted to engage in circular logic to prove my point. You, sir, are grasping at straws. For me, this is the last straw.

Unvote, Confirm vote: Chaco

[Chaco]

I'm not making threats, Im stating facts.

I refuse to hop on SSK's scum wagon.

Also waiting to vig leaves us a mess of WIFOM around you, you were told to vig N1 but you opted not. Do it tonight or further fuck the town.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm not making threats, Im stating facts.

Such as Neto's arguments against you hold no water because he "attacked half the town"? Is that fact or fiction? Or are you just shooting whatever blatant exaggeration / lie in his direction to see what sticks?

Unvote, vote Chaco

but I'm putting it back on MafiaSSK if the wagon doesn't build.

[Albert B. Rampage]

EBWOP

"is down to lynch anyone but DB"

[Netopalis]

I was told? My vig is not a lynch, it is my own choice to use. I chose not to use it because I felt that there was a strong probability of a mafia roleblocker or mafia doctor in this game due to an expectedly high number of killing roles. I may or may not use it tonight, it will partially be determined by who is lynched and what their alignment is. I also may not use it tonight because this very discussion has been brought up yet again.

You are indeed making threats. "Do X or die" is a threat.

Failure to use a night ability is not WIFOM. It does not present two equal choices. It may murky the waters, but I felt that an unsubstantiated N1 kill was significantly worse than a more refined choice on N2 or N3. At the time, I didn't know that there was a third killing role. That would have probably changed my play significantly.

Chaco, you entered today on a bandwagon that probably 75% of the town supported. Through your arguments in favor of that bandwagon, its support has nearly dried up. Please seriously considering reading a book on debate logic.

[Netopalis]

Seriously considering...Ugh. My writing is off tonight.

Please seriously consider.

[Chaco]

No, Net, you know better. That it is not 75% town, Id say scum is on it.

ABR is town, quite obviously.

Magnus's opposing me yet attacking me doesn't add up much, scum strat?

Net has a circle of WIFOM around him due to claim, and refusal to vig by towns means. His claim cannot be proven unless he vigs, which he won't. You'll be left in endgame with that.

Forbs hard to read as she doesn't post that frequently, speculative still.

Meta says SSK is town.

Konawa is speculative.

Doom is more than likely scum.

MO for SK maybe. And wah lah gut reads. For your use later on.

[Netopalis]

And once again, you miss my point entirely.

[Chaco]

Wasn't even reposnding to our point...geezus man. Only the top was.

[Netopalis]

Still missed it.


Does anyone have any doubt in their mind now about Chaco's guilt?