Mini 852- Crayola Catastrophe Game Over (Post 1158)

[SocioPath]

EK is correct in that we are lovers.

That should help explain why I didn't like being almost universally towards the top of every townie list on D2. (I didn't want to draw the NK)
Although it backfired in a way, and made everyone think I'm even more townie.

I was planning on getting myself lynched (or EK, samething really) but the NK choice was bizarre.
He was a claimed non-power role.
There is a 'doc' still alive.
There is a 'cop' still alive.
There are players that can night talk that are still alive.
But the vig, that was essentially now a vanilla townie, was the one chosen for death.

The line of reasoning for the scum kill from what I seems odd.

But it could mean a few things:
Scum were worried about a one shot vig not being one shot.
Scum knowing his vig claim was valid because Zaz was dead.
Them knowing they weren't the Zaz kill because of an EK target?
Knowing a doc is present because an EK kill didn't go though...
Them not picking a power role to kill because they know it would be doc protected.
Doc is still alive...WHAT?

'Doc' being alive leads down a different train of thought.
Some docs can self protect...
Scum WIFOMS over who to kill: claimed power roles, all vaiable for doc protection, or a role thats essentially vanilla unless they lied and ad more shots.
The meta for this site is that docs can't self protect.
Not everyone is from this site.
The first that comes to mind is Chibo.
I should Meta that site to see how docs are represented.

Also I looked back on my role PM to see the lover thing about the other dying in the next night/day phase. I'm pretty sure it'd happen before being able to do anything about it.
But while looking at that, I noticed that we are trying to find the "killer(s)". Implying that its even possible for there to be a single scum in this game.
Which doesn't make sense.
But on the same note, Jesters don't make sense.
And every pro-town role is limited.

At this point I'm not sure what to think.

[Kirbyoshi]

And every pro-town role is limited.

Except "doc". Don't forget that.

[Pomegranate]

Socio, why were you planning to get yourself/EK killed today? I'd like to know why you think EK is scum.

So you want one of you lynched today? I guess one of two scum being a lover with a townie makes okay sense. Most of the PRs are very antitown. I wonder whether Chibo is paranoid or insane.

I protected you last night- I though protecting a mason made sense (and as it was suggested in-thread, I didn't see why I should protect someone else. I see where you're going with the Chibo thing....

[SocioPath]

And every pro-town role is limited.

Except "doc". Don't forget that.

Right, there is also that.

But bringing that up again brings up another possibility in my mind:

Scum didn't kill N2 and was going to fakeclaim a doc protect.

The doc is the only role that doesn't have a drawback.

Full powered in a game such as this is odd.

Fake claiming a protect on EK also would support the Pom + EK duo.

Given all this, I don't see Pom doing that, but I do see EK doing that.

If EK is indeed town, and we get NK'd, the game still isn't over, assuming we hit scum.

At this moment Pom is my #1.

[ChiboSempai]

This is by far the most confusing setup I've ever been apart of, I need to read more into it.

I didn't even know that town scum lover pairs were even possible...

Even due to the text it could mean that there is only one killer, I wouldn't expect there to be a single killer if they were a lover tied to the town. As disadvantaged the town seems, that makes it a lot worse for the mafia. So if we plan on thinking one of the lovers is mafia, then there is yet another person we can attempt to focus on. Who are the other possibilities?

Would it be safer as we go on to think that I am insane and not paranoid? While it's a shot in the dark, we don't have too much to play off of at the moment so for the time being I would avoid lynching KirbYoshi.

That leaves Jahudo and Pome.

Now if theres a 2 scum pair, and one of them is a lover with someone else, then the other mafia member would know that the other one is part of the lover deal then I assume right? If we read into that then we might get a slightly better feel of things.

The fact that Pome claimed a power role means that we should be able to look into that more logically before choosing to lynch either Jahudo or Pome (imo).

Pome protected Socio correct?

Reading back to earlier on this day when people brought up the liklihood of Pome telling the truth from the Yankeee night kill makes me think Jahudo more.
Couple that with my original at least one mafia had to have disguised their self as a VT makes me think Jahudo more.

Judging by all of this logic,

Unvote (I forgot if I voted yet), Vote: Jahudo

[ChiboSempai]

Messed up the bold tag:

Unvote Vote Jahudo

[Jahudo]

Even due to the text it could mean that there is only one killer, I wouldn't expect there to be a single killer if they were a lover tied to the town.

What do you mean by one killer?

Now if theres a 2 scum pair, and one of them is a lover with someone else, then the other mafia member would know that the other one is part of the lover deal then I assume right? If we read into that then we might get a slightly better feel of things.

Yes, a second mafia player should have known since the first time scum night talked.

The fact that Pome claimed a power role means that we should be able to look into that more logically before choosing to lynch either Jahudo or Pome (imo).

A claim that is not confirmable. It was an early claim back when someone could have countered, but by this point I could believe 2 docs in this seemingly underpowered town setup. I've seen multiple docs before. I've seen scum doctors.

Reading back to earlier on this day when people brought up the liklihood of Pome telling the truth from the Yankeee night kill makes me think Jahudo more.

Why is that?

Couple that with my original at least one mafia had to have disguised their self as a VT makes me think Jahudo more.

I had thought this too if scum were just goons, but if one was a lover then they would obviously claim lover. I think they have to be looked at the same way.

[Kirbyoshi]

I think good scumhunting has to couple logic with gut. Is lynching Jahudo the logical thing to do toDay? Perhaps. But my gut tells me he's town. I think if there's two scum, one lies in Chibo/Pom and the other lies in Socio/EK. However, and this could be a long shot, but could it be that there IS only one "killer," but it's not a single scum? Rather, it would be an SK. The only real difference would be in the killing patterns. That may explain why Pom wasn't killed last Night: SKs want/need doc protection from scum as well, provided there is actual scum. Has anyone seen a game like the one I'm proposing? If not, I'll assume the idea dead in the water.

[elvis_knits]

I agree with pretty much everything kirby just said.

I also find the idea of their being only one killer pretty interesting. I think it is possible. I have seen some very interesting setups in my time, they can be like a puzzle. One notable game I remember was Oman's Omod (from like over a year ago, I was playing as an alt, PinkPuppy) http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 59&start=0

Setup was:
Mafia GF
Mafia RB
Retired Cop (takes over cop's job if cop dies, but there's no cop)
Miller
Psychiatrist
7 Townies

This setup was very interesting because it was basically 2 scum and 10 townies, since none of the town power roles or scum power roles actually did anything.

Another cool one was Mafia ViPod
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... c&&start=0

Setup was:
2 seperate cult recruiters, limited to one other member each, become culted lovers with recruit, can kill at night when not recruiting.
Jailer
Tracker
Miller
7 Townies


So I think those two games show that a lot of crazy stuff can happen, but it usually has a sort of logic to it. Especially with Oman's game it was like a puzzle... we figured out that none of the power roles did anything. Like a psychiatrist without an SK, and a retired cop without a cop, and a miller without a cop.

So with our game, having all power roles that hurt the town would potentially balance a setup with only an SK.

Or maybe we have two mafia, and one good power role (doc or insane cop, or doc with paranoid cop). Although I am liking the idea that all the power roles hurt the town, making chibo paranoid and Pome a lone scum SK. It would be a cool setup.

[ChiboSempai]

Jahudo -
By one killer I meant one scum. I got mixed up with the game's favlor text as we're trying to find out who killed Totally Awesome Dude.

And as for what people said about Pome now making me think Jahudo more, it's because in my post I narrowed down my vote to either Pome or Jahudo, and if people seem to think that Pome's claim is true due to Yankeee's truthfulness in the one shot vig role, then that would solely leave Jahudo in my list.

[Battousai]

Vote Count

ChiboSempai (1)- Kirbyoshi
Jahudo (1)- ChiboSempai

Not Voting (4)- SocioPath, Pomegranate, Jahudo, elvis_knits

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch!

[Jahudo]

Interesting thoughts and I guess it doesn't hurt to speculate at this point.

An SK and town lover combo sounds almost too good for the SK. If he can't get NK'ed except for a single shot Vig, then all he has to do is claim lover and that will probably save him from a lynch.

Our crazy cop has created confusion by claiming, which might have been intentional in the setup to give an underpowered scum more of a chance.

I still don't think there's a way to tell if paranoid cop is more or less likely than an insane cop and a GF scum role. But I'm not sure many SKs get townie cop reads.

[Kirbyoshi]

An SK and town lover combo sounds almost too good for the SK. If he can't get NK'ed except for a single shot Vig, then all he has to do is claim lover and that will probably save him from a lynch.

I'm not suggesting an SK/Town pair. Like you said, I don't think that's likely. However, Pom could have easily fakeclaimed doc if she were quick on her feet about it. Also, Chibo's role could actually be insane, but the SK could return innocent (or, in this case, guilty), basically making him paranoid.

Unvote Chibo, Vote: Pomegranate

Combined with what I said above, I don't think scum/"killer(s)" would try to WIFOM us into lynching her; they'd (or he'd/she'd) just save us the trouble and NK her.

[SocioPath]

Actually, a scum lover wouldn't make much sense.

If lovers made it to end game, and there was only 1 scum left, which was tied to a lover...the other lover couldn't be 'endgamed' because then the scum lover would die and there would be no one left.

And at this point, I still think Pom is the play for today.

[elvis_knits]

I pretty much agree that Pome is the play today too. The other roles suggest that a lone scum is possible, given that they provide every advantage to the scum, rather than help town.

But wait I just thought of something. The N2 kill with only one death, and yankee said he killed zazie.

Either Pome would have had to kill zazie too or Pome decided to no-kill to help her fake a doc claim.

If Pome decided to no-kill and woke up to find someone dead, she must have been seriously like WTF!!!!!

[Kirbyoshi]

lol ya she would have, but as stated, it certainly could have been a double target, or she just decided to not kill anyone. Also, looking back, how sure did she seem that she successfully protected you? Too sure would be +scum points, wouldn't it?

[elvis_knits]

lol ya she would have, but as stated, it certainly could have been a double target, or she just decided to not kill anyone. Also, looking back, how sure did she seem that she successfully protected you? Too sure would be +scum points, wouldn't it?

I think she suspected that I killed zazie...



Which would mean she didn't think she stopped the kill. Which means if she is scum she also targetted zazie.

Which is believable considerign zazie was voting Pome before death.

[Kirbyoshi]

I think she suspected that I killed zazie...

What makes you think that?

[Kirbyoshi]

Let's just pretend 1092 was in green.

[SocioPath]

I'm considering EK is scum based off of the nightkill, but I think it is unlikely. I'm also fairly suspicious of Chibo for his tunneling D2.

[Jahudo]

Which would mean she didn't think she stopped the kill. Which means if she is scum she also targetted zazie.

She would have thought she didn't stop the scum kill if she was town. But did she explain why she thought the NK made her suspicious of e_k?

Her killing Zazy would be WIFOM because he was one of her top suspects day 2. He kept asking her questions, so it might be motivation just to shut him up

We should not assume Pome looks odd just because her role isn't flawed; we actually don't know if her role is normal doctor. She could be a variation and we wouldn't know unless a protection failed.

I am leaning towards voting Pome, mainly because of what I thought were scumtells on her before the claim.

[Pomegranate]

I'm not sure what I'm defending myself from, but here are some things:

~ The reason I was slightly suspicious of EK was because I didn't expect a Zazie NK, as he was my top suspect at that point. When I saw Zazie dead in the morning, I thought about things in a new direction. Before looking back, I mentioned EK as a possibility, becuse things were going in different directions. Once I looked back I realized EKscum was unlikely, and dropped it.

~In that situation as an scum or an SK, I'd have no reason not to kill. I wasn't under major suspicion, (only from Zazie, but no bandwagon, ) so why would I set up for a fakeclaim like that? It's important to kill in order to eliminate people.

~Why would I kill Zazie? I know this is major Wifom, but it doesn't make much sense. I was under suspicion after Zazie was killed because he was suspicious/voting for me. I think it is Wifom, but often scum engage in that with their NKs.

I think the situation we are in is either mafia lover/mafia or an SK. I think I'm leaning for the former, but the latter is also a likely possibility.

[ChiboSempai]

I honestly don't know where people are getting this magical theory of a SK all of a sudden.

While the case on Pome is clear, idk, I just don't think it makes complete sense. It's still somewhat a shot in the dark, which don't get me wrong my vote on Jahudo is as well - but I like my logic behind it better.

[Jahudo]

Mafia scum + lover pair is also probably too overpowered for this setup. One shot to get NK'ed, a claim typically saves them from a lynch, and a hypothetical insane cop has low odds of being alive to find the scum half and claim by the time he realizes he's looking for an innocent.

I've voting Pomegranate for the scumtells. I can rehash any of my points if people need a refresher.

Vote: Pomegranate.

[Kirbyoshi]

I honestly don't know where people are getting this magical theory of a SK all of a sudden.

That'd be originally from me, then confirmed as a possibility by EK. Why do you think it's so ridiculous?