Mini 878: Nouns Mafia - Da game is ovah!

[Konowa]

Net, you just proved that the wagon was

not

random due to the fact that it was based

on

something.

And another thing - if you want to see me scumhunt, check out my quick summary of the game with my suspicious in 144. Nobody really looked into it all that much, though.

That in and of itself does not constitute scumhunting. It is, as you said, a summary of the game and some brief one line thoughts on everyone in the game. You have not followed up on any of your thoughts in that post.

The adhom is not doing you any good in my opinion. Instead of mouthing off to Sens, why don't you point out where you think he has attacked you illogically. Also, why do you think tunneling is scummy?

Vote Count X

Netopalis:

4 (Konowa, SensFan, Iecerint, Boxman)

Boxman:

3 (elvis_knits, Seol, StrangerCoug)

Sens Fan:

2 (mathcam, Netopalis)

Not Voting:

(MacavityLock, Parhelic, Percy)

Deadline:

Friday November 27th, 12:00 PM EST

[StrangerCoug]

What does 156 have to do with his case on SF? Or am I just assuming you were implying it did?

#156 was Netopalis attacking SensFan, therefore I construed it as part of the former's case on the latter.

I think you're less likely to forget about a game as scum than as town.

Unvote: Boxman.

Vote: SensFan.

Cam

What leads you to this thinking?

*shrugs* I started suspecting you because you failed to provide logic, not because you weren't attacking me.

This comes directly after a post where SensFan brings up OMGUS. OMGUS is voicing suspicion of a player just because he or she voiced suspicion of you. Either you misunderstand the term or the last part of what I quoted implies a misrepresentation of SensFan.

Let us assume I'm a Cop, neto.

If I am forced to make a list, I am forced to either place any Innocents I have on my Town section, or risk really screwing with people's attempts to figure out my targets if I die before I claim.

If everyone has Joey on their Town list, it tells the Scum Joey's probably not lynchable, something that is invaluable to them. If we just post who we find suspicious, there's probably 4-6 people that don't appear on anybody's list, and they could all potentially be lynchable.

This makes a lot of sense.

[elvis_knits]

What if I think Neto is scummy regardless of Boxman's alignment?

I'm open to hearing why. I asked why a scum Neto would slow a town boxman wagon. Tell me your thoughts.

[elvis_knits]

Well, reading last couple posts I don't like some of the stuff Neto is saying. Boxman wagon wasn't random. Sensfan isn't illogical, or necessarily tunnelling.

If Neto thinks those things are true, I need more explanation, becuase I don't think they are.

[Iecerint]

It's potentially scummy because a lot of your questions were really nitpicky. They seemed to be rather aggressive and, in a few cases, regarding things that just didn't matter. That being said, I only said it was potentially scummy, and it will be reevaluated as you play.

This is Neto's 156. He's explaining why he thinks my asking questions of players I suspect is scummy. Did you misinterpret this post, or did you mean to refer to some other post?

[StrangerCoug]

It's potentially scummy because a lot of your questions were really nitpicky. They seemed to be rather aggressive and, in a few cases, regarding things that just didn't matter. That being said, I only said it was potentially scummy, and it will be reevaluated as you play.

This is Neto's 156. He's explaining why he thinks my asking questions of players I suspect is scummy. Did you misinterpret this post, or did you mean to refer to some other post?

Looking back, one of SensFan's posts happens to have intervened between yours and Netopalis's. That must be why I thought Net was addressing Sens and not you.

[DraketheFake]

Parhelic

has been prodded and has roughly 16 hours to post before I seek his replacement.

New

Vote Count

up top shortly.

[Netopalis]

Ok, first off, the quote was a mistake - I added on an "n't" that I didn't mean. It should have said that I was voting Sensfan because I suspected him, not because he was attacking me.

Konowa: You do have a point. But I still will maintain that it's an incredibly, incredibly weak reason to be starting a bandwagon on someone. I have yet to see this really defended all that well. All I have is people just asking me to restate this.

Furthermore, my attack on SensFan is not ad hominem. Ad hominem is an attack due to association. I am not associating SensFan with anything other than the Boxman wagon and I am not attacking two of the other people who were on the Boxman wagon.

Also, this:

You keep claiming my votes have been illogic, when I've explained them both quite clearly. .

You can also stop trying to get me to explain that Boxman vote. I will not be doing it in this game, period.

[SensFan]

Wow. Way to take that quote

completely

out of context. Like, you literally chopped off the part before it that shows why the vote was useful.

Then what is the value of such a vote, Iec?

Highly scummy reactions like yours.

You can also stop trying to get me to explain that Boxman vote. I will not be doing it in this game, period. We are well past the time when explaining it would help anything.

[Netopalis]

I'm not sure that the first part really changes the second all that much.

[SensFan]

Except for, you know, the fact that the first part explains the use behind the vote.

[Netopalis]

So, wait, wait, wait. You're saying that there are two messages here.

The first is explaining your vote.

The second is stating that you won't explain your vote.

....

[Iecerint]

The first explains a reason for such votes and a perceived consequence of the vote in this circumstance.

The second is stating that he won't explain what was going through his mind when he joined the bandwagon.

[elvis_knits]

I think Neto is wrong and possibly scummy with the recent accusations against sensfan. I think it's a little of a stretch to say his boxman vote was illogical because he didn't explain it. But I don't think he quoted out of context in 232 either. I think that the part he chopped really doesn't change much.

I think the argument is getting into minutae at this point. The biggest fact remains that Neto wanted to slow the wagon on boxman. That is the most important thing in my mind, and some of the rest could possibly be squabbling, so I don't want to get too riled up about it.

Boxman still hasn't done anything, reinforcing his scumminess. Neto hasn't mentioned this. (THAT is significant to me. He's not saying, "hey guys, maybe you were right about boxman, we're ten pages into the game and he still asn't done anything.")

I'm still voting boxman, and I will be until I see something good from him.

Iecerint is coming off to me as being sensfan jr. Konowa is also saying similar things but he seems original. Iecerint is like explaining what sensfan meant, and stuff like that. I find it sort of weird!

[Netopalis]

I haven't forgotten about Boxman, I'm just waiting for his promised post. I'm not opposed to lynching him if he doesn't show up, though - he doesn't have as much of an excuse now.

[mathcam]

Agree with the last two posts.

Unvote: Sens, Vote: Boxman.

I have to admit my eyes are glazing over a little at Sens/Neto. Basic feeling is that Neto's getting himself caught in some mild contradictions, but mostly because his words are being overanalyzed. elvis' point about Neto not adjusting his Boxstance is a good one.

Cam

[Iecerint]

Neto's been feigning ignorance at why SF would vote that way for pages now. (I say "feigning" because it's been explained to him so many times that I have difficulty believing that he really doesn't understand.) I don't have a problem with trying to end issues like that when they get out of hand.

[DraketheFake]

Parhelic

has not picked up his prod and will be replaced.

Seol

hasn't posted since

Sunday

and will receive his

1st Prod

.

[Konowa]

Konowa: You do have a point. But I still will maintain that it's an incredibly, incredibly weak reason to be starting a bandwagon on someone. I have yet to see this really defended all that well. All I have is people just asking me to restate this.

It. Was. Page. Two. I really do not know what game-breaking tell you are expecting that early in the game. I pointed out earlier that if we were closer to endgame and a wagon took off based on something like that I would agree with you. However, it was page two and due to that I believe the reasoning to be quite solid. You have yet to explain what is wrong with this thought process other than saying that it is wrong.

As far as my adhom statement, I was going off what I remembered from the wiki. However, re-reading the wiki, I find that that was not entirely what I meant either. I suppose what I was saying is that the end of your post 221 is attacking Sens as a player as opposed to his arguments. Instead of just stating that you think Sens has been illogical, explain.

Agree with the last two posts.

Unvote: Sens, Vote: Boxman.

This is most likely just a continuation of the bad gut feeling I got from his earlier unvote of Boxman, but something about this just feels off to me.

[Seol]

Just checking in - I've had a lot of coursework the last few days, and have had enough time to read but not get stuck in properly. I should have plenty of time tomorrow.

I know, I hate it when people post to say they're posting too.

[Netopalis]

Konowa: I do see your point...You do have a valid one that it was page 2. I guess I really should have considered that.

And as for my illogical thing on Sens, I guess it was really just a reaction to his stated policy of not giving reasoning/posting his thoughts. In retrospect, I probably should have backed down a bit earlier....But I was attacked in a recent game for backing down on an argument too easily. I guess I'm trying to find the line where backing down isn't considered anti-town play vs. where pressing too doggedly is anti-town play. My apologies....I like things to be very organized and reasoned, and when people just act without explaining themselves in a game that is ostensibly logical, I get nervous. I know that there are many successful players on here who take the same tack...but I don't personally see it. That being said, it probably was a train of thought best suited for MD.

[SensFan]

And as for my illogical thing on Sens, I guess it was really just a reaction to his stated policy of not giving reasoning/posting his thoughts.

I never said I won't be explaining anything I do, or anything even close to that.

Also, your primary goal shouldn't be not looking scummy, that's Scum's job. Work on finding Scum, don't worry about if you look good or bad while doing it.

[Netopalis]

Well, a townie who always shows up as scummy isn't much help, are they? They just get in the way....

[SensFan]

Ah, but the whole point of scumhunting is looking for the people whose primary goal is survival, rather than caring about scumhunting.

[Netopalis]

Fair enough, I guess....