Mini 867- TTGL Mafia: GAME OVER: Roles posted.

[Vi]

Btw, I'm also getting something strange from Vi. I don't know, but it isn't as usual Vi. Gotta check with the other games with Vi, and reread him to know what it is.

What on

earth

do you know about "usual Vi"?

@f-light: I'm totally voting for Snow_Bunny right now. You should be too.

Wait, I'm not for some reason.
Also, you should have saved that line for bunnyscum.

Unvote: Yosarian2
Vote: Snow_Bunny

(L-3)

I really should have. I am facepalming at not doing so now. I should insult myself in my next post for failing that

Vi, who, besides Yos, do you find scummy?

I've answered this question multiple times already.
xofelf and Snow_Bunny have the worst excuses for suspecting me that I've seen in... well, this game at least.

2) So basically that was a roundabout way of saying you wanted me to admit a random vote wasn't random so that it connected me to Yos? What? But also, why Yos? Why not say...Cobalt? Snow?

1) Yes. RVS.
2) Someone had already voted Snow_Bunny. You were deliberately voting on someone who had not been voted yet. I didn't think of Cobalt.

The vague and undefined suspicion from Cobalt, xofelf, and Chaco deserves a similarly vague and undefined flippant response.

Okay, understood, but why Yos?

Yos2 hadn't posted yet.

Anyway, at this early stage in the game, what's wrong with a general, somewhat vauge, "I think person X is acting oddly" gut based comment about a player?

This is early?

Nonetheless I like the idea of an xofelf wagon. Snow_Bunny's is larger though, so.

[Jahudo]

@lurker voters:
What is the endgame of voting a lurker like xofelf, who I believe is just having V/LA issues? Do you lynch them if they don't show up after a certain period of time? Say deadline is today and nothing is changed. Would you rather lynch xofelf, who has little-to-no connections, or someone like Jahudo who could have connections with everybody? Me, I'd vote Jahudo. But that's just me.

I'm getting the increasing feeling SB is my lyncher.

Why? Is it an overall feeling you have from her focusing on you? Or does a particular post or posts maker her sound like a lyncher?

Anyway, at this early stage in the game, what's wrong with a general, somewhat vauge, "I think person X is acting oddly" gut based comment about a player? If I had some specific scumtells Monkey had made that I wanted to point out, I would have.

We had someone claim because they thought they were at L-1 and could have been hammered. How does that fit into the early stage of the game?

Let's see how you were involved in that group discussion:

unvote

Vote:Monkeyman

Really, really odd play coming from him.

We will want to test Chaco's claim. I suggest that we wait until we've decided to lynch someone today and then, instead of hammering that person, we have Chaco do it. Otherwise, him using his claimed ability costs us all the information from a normal bandwagon, which seems like a bad thing.

Vague suspicion and setup talk. Did you really not have a specific scumtell on Monkey to point out from that event?

[Yosarian2]

unvote

Vote:Monkeyman

Really, really odd play coming from him.

We will want to test Chaco's claim. I suggest that we wait until we've decided to lynch someone today and then, instead of hammering that person, we have Chaco do it. Otherwise, him using his claimed ability costs us all the information from a normal bandwagon, which seems like a bad thing.

Vague suspicion and setup talk. Did you really not have a specific scumtell on Monkey to point out from that event?

Well, there were a bunch of things that Monkey had done that, while they may or may not be strong scumtells, certanly were odd.

The whole way he responded to the Serephem situation seemed odd. Jester speculation, for one. The suggestion that Serephem might have been a jester who "fake-claimed the kill in order to get lynched" (even though he claimed the kill BEFORE IT HAPPENED). Then he just flatly declared that

Either he is lying about the day not ending or his is lying about being lynchproof. It would behoove us to find out which.

Which again, dosn't make any sense to me as an assumption, just seemed really odd (and was false).

Then his whole attack on Snow Bunny for "not answering his question" was pretty silly as well.

I don't know. I'm not sure how much of that is just his normal playstyle and how much of that is scummy. But it certainly is odd behavior to say the least, and at the point when I voted him, that was the best thing I had to go on.

[MonkeyMan576]

@lurker voters:
What is the endgame of voting a lurker like xofelf, who I believe is just having V/LA issues? Do you lynch them if they don't show up after a certain period of time? Say deadline is today and nothing is changed. Would you rather lynch xofelf, who has little-to-no connections, or someone like Jahudo who could have connections with everybody? Me, I'd vote Jahudo. But that's just me.

I'm getting the increasing feeling SB is my lyncher.

Why? Is it an overall feeling you have from her focusing on you? Or does a particular post or posts maker her sound like a lyncher?

She seems hell bent on me getting lynched and seems to want to discourage any discussion of other candidates or possibilities. Plus her constantly calling me scum every post I attack her is appeal to emotion. "You wish scum!". "Let's lynch monkeyman already!".
She's not recognizing that there are a good many players that are suspicious of her behavior and that she is just as good a candidate as me(if not more so) at this point.

@yos: Jester speculation is not scummy. This is an FL game, which from what I understand, tends to be non-traditional. That's where I was coming from. My comment about Seraphim being unlynchable was just me stating my opinion that it was a scummy claim, and easily testible. Seraophim seemed to resist the idea of testing his claim, which would leave on to believe he was lying. And Snow Bunny has been active lurking the whole game, so there's nothing "silly" about calling her out.

Basically I've been constantly attacked for having opinions, it seems like.

[Yosarian2]

She seems hell bent on me getting lynched and seems to want to discourage any discussion of other candidates or possibilities. Plus her constantly calling me scum every post I attack her is appeal to emotion. "You wish scum!". "Let's lynch monkeyman already!".

Yes, she has been devoting quite a bit of energy to getting you lynched. Do you think that trying very hard to get someone lynched, using techniques like repetition and such to emphasize how serious you are about trying to run up a person and to increase the pressure on them, is really an inherent scum tell? I see pro-town people do that exact same thing all the time; I do it myself, sometimes, when I'm really sure of myself.

I certainly understand that you don't like it, since it's aimed at you, but I'm not clear how that's supposed to be a scumtell. Could you explain?

She's not recognizing that there are a good many players that are suspicious of her behavior and that she is just as good a candidate as me(if not more so) at this point.

I don't get what you're saying here. You think that, because people are suspicious of her, she should...not be attacking you? Why?

@yos: Jester speculation is not scummy.

Jester speculation is always a bad idea. It was especially absurd in this case since it didn't really make any sense.

I'm not going to call it a scumtell here, because I don't really know why scum would be motivated to either prevent or cause the lynch of someone unlynchable, but it's just not a good idea for you to ever do as town.

My comment about Seraphim being unlynchable was just me stating my opinion that it was a scummy claim, and easily testible.

But that's not what you said...

And Snow Bunny has been active lurking the whole game, so there's nothing "silly" about calling her out.

Huh? Like you just, said that she's been trying quite hard to get you lynched. That's pretty much the exact opposite of "active lurking".

[Chaco]

Well, Vi, he had posted "(shrug)", but I won't call that a post. Okay.

[MonkeyMan576]

She seems hell bent on me getting lynched and seems to want to discourage any discussion of other candidates or possibilities. Plus her constantly calling me scum every post I attack her is appeal to emotion. "You wish scum!". "Let's lynch monkeyman already!".

Yes, she has been devoting quite a bit of energy to getting you lynched. Do you think that trying very hard to get someone lynched, using techniques like repetition and such to emphasize how serious you are about trying to run up a person and to increase the pressure on them, is really an inherent scum tell? I see pro-town people do that exact same thing all the time; I do it myself, sometimes, when I'm really sure of myself.

I certainly understand that you don't like it, since it's aimed at you, but I'm not clear how that's supposed to be a scumtell. Could you explain?

Consistantly using appeal to emotion rather than logical arguments is a scumtell.

She's not recognizing that there are a good many players that are suspicious of her behavior and that she is just as good a candidate as me(if not more so) at this point.

I don't get what you're saying here. You think that, because people are suspicious of her, she should...not be attacking you? Why?

She has every right to attack me, but she's acting like her town clout is significantly more than mine is, which is not true, in my opinion. Trying to overreach your clout and discourage discussion from other people is scummy. She should acknowledge the arguments against her if she wants her arguments to be recognized.

@yos: Jester speculation is not scummy.

Jester speculation is always a bad idea. It was especially absurd in this case since it didn't really make any sense.

I'm not going to call it a scumtell here, because I don't really know why scum would be motivated to either prevent or cause the lynch of someone unlynchable, but it's just not a good idea for you to ever do as town.

Seraphim's behavior was erratic and it seemed to me to be a possible jester situation. If he was a jester, then it would be good for the town to know about it so they could make an informed decision.

My comment about Seraphim being unlynchable was just me stating my opinion that it was a scummy claim, and easily testible.

But that's not what you said...

So I'm restating my position so it is more clearly understood.

And Snow Bunny has been active lurking the whole game, so there's nothing "silly" about calling her out.

Huh? Like you just, said that she's been trying quite hard to get you lynched. That's pretty much the exact opposite of "active lurking".

No, active lurking can include posting without content. If she had a decent case against me, then it would be one thing. But she doesn't, and doesn't feel the need to elaborate on her case, and her pressuring others to vote on a weak case is scummy

[Vi]

@lurker voters:
What is the endgame of voting a lurker like xofelf, who I believe is just having V/LA issues? Do you lynch them if they don't show up after a certain period of time? Say deadline is today and nothing is changed. Would you rather lynch xofelf, who has little-to-no connections, or someone like Jahudo who could have connections with everybody? Me, I'd vote Jahudo. But that's just me.

What connections

do

you have, anyway?

I'm told xofelf's posts so far are her norm >_>
But tbh I would lynch Jebus over xofelf, and Snow_Bunny over both of them.

I'm on the fence about Jahudo and Yos2 considering my previous positions on both of them. If I find out they're both Town I'm going to be perplexed.

[Jahudo]

@lurker voters:
What is the endgame of voting a lurker like xofelf, who I believe is just having V/LA issues? Do you lynch them if they don't show up after a certain period of time? Say deadline is today and nothing is changed. Would you rather lynch xofelf, who has little-to-no connections, or someone like Jahudo who could have connections with everybody? Me, I'd vote Jahudo. But that's just me.

What connections

do

you have, anyway?

My votes and the people that have voted me. And if you want to include the lurkers I don't want to prod, although I could find suspicions once they become active. So what would you do at deadline, anyway? Of the people that haven't done anything, are they worth keeping around? Not that this is anything more than a hypothetical situation though.

[Yosarian2]

@lurker voters:
What is the endgame of voting a lurker like xofelf, who I believe is just having V/LA issues? Do you lynch them if they don't show up after a certain period of time? Say deadline is today and nothing is changed. Would you rather lynch xofelf, who has little-to-no connections, or someone like Jahudo who could have connections with everybody? Me, I'd vote Jahudo. But that's just me.

(shrug) All else being equal, I'd rather lynch someone who has done nothing game-relevant then a person who has done some game relevant things. If someone has voted, has scumhunted, has discussed stratagy or mechanics, has done SOMETHING that I'd consider acting in a pro-town way (here, I mean "acted in a way helpful to the town", the opposite of anti-town), then that inherently makes them look more pro-town in my eyes then someone who has done nothing.

Also, I hardly think that xofelf has little to no connections. So far, I've been attacking her, so have other people, and you've been defending her. Other people have avoided commenting on the wagon. If she flips scum, I think we get a fair amount of information about her possible connections.

Anyway, if she's been having V/LA issues, that's fine, but she's posted in this game 23 times so far. If she didn't have time to do a detailed game analysis or something, I'd understand that. But how much time does it take to read one post, quote it, and say "This post sounds bad, FOS:you"? Or to vote a lurker? Or to ask someone a question? Or to make a quick comment about if she thought it was a good idea to lynch someone who claimed unlynchable or not? If she's had time to make 23 posts, she should have had time to do something that was at least a LITTLE bit game relevant, and she's chosen not to. I have to consider that a possible tell of her alignment; it seems likely to me that she has absolutely no interest in even trying to help the town find scum, because she hasn't shown any yet.

[Yosarian2]

She seems hell bent on me getting lynched and seems to want to discourage any discussion of other candidates or possibilities. Plus her constantly calling me scum every post I attack her is appeal to emotion. "You wish scum!". "Let's lynch monkeyman already!".

Yes, she has been devoting quite a bit of energy to getting you lynched. Do you think that trying very hard to get someone lynched, using techniques like repetition and such to emphasize how serious you are about trying to run up a person and to increase the pressure on them, is really an inherent scum tell? I see pro-town people do that exact same thing all the time; I do it myself, sometimes, when I'm really sure of myself.

I certainly understand that you don't like it, since it's aimed at you, but I'm not clear how that's supposed to be a scumtell. Could you explain?

Consistantly using appeal to emotion rather than logical arguments is a scumtell.

I wouldn't describe what she's been doing as an "appeal to emotions". More like just constantly repeating "I'd like to lynch player X", which is a common tactic used to demonstrate how serious someone is and how committed they are to a wagon. Glork, for example, does that all the time. I don't have a problem with people doing that.

Seraphim's behavior was erratic and it seemed to me to be a possible jester situation. If he was a jester, then it would be good for the town to know about it so they could make an informed decision.

I'm going to drop this, because it's not really relevant to this game anymore, and I don't think it says much about your alignment. Let me just end by saying that very often, when someone is acting odd or scummy, someone says "hey, what if they're a jester?", and they're almost always wrong. Thinking like that is really just a distraction; jesters are really, really rare, and worrying about them whenever someone looks scummy or erratic is just counterproductive, in my experience.

[MonkeyMan576]

She seems hell bent on me getting lynched and seems to want to discourage any discussion of other candidates or possibilities. Plus her constantly calling me scum every post I attack her is appeal to emotion. "You wish scum!". "Let's lynch monkeyman already!".

Yes, she has been devoting quite a bit of energy to getting you lynched. Do you think that trying very hard to get someone lynched, using techniques like repetition and such to emphasize how serious you are about trying to run up a person and to increase the pressure on them, is really an inherent scum tell? I see pro-town people do that exact same thing all the time; I do it myself, sometimes, when I'm really sure of myself.

I certainly understand that you don't like it, since it's aimed at you, but I'm not clear how that's supposed to be a scumtell. Could you explain?

Consistantly using appeal to emotion rather than logical arguments is a scumtell.

I wouldn't describe what she's been doing as an "appeal to emotions". More like just constantly repeating "I'd like to lynch player X", which is a common tactic used to demonstrate how serious someone is and how committed they are to a wagon. Glork, for example, does that all the time. I don't have a problem with people doing that.

It's fine to be enthusiastic about a lynch, but you shouldn't respond to someone's counterargument with witty remarks as opposed to actual arguments. Her argument is weak, and her insistance despite the weakness of her argument, and her discouraging of discussion is scummy.

[Vi]

@lurker voters:
What is the endgame of voting a lurker like xofelf, who I believe is just having V/LA issues? Do you lynch them if they don't show up after a certain period of time? Say deadline is today and nothing is changed. Would you rather lynch xofelf, who has little-to-no connections, or someone like Jahudo who could have connections with everybody? Me, I'd vote Jahudo. But that's just me.

What connections

do

you have, anyway?

My votes and the people that have voted me. And if you want to include the lurkers I don't want to prod, although I could find suspicions once they become active. So what would you do at deadline, anyway? Of the people that haven't done anything, are they worth keeping around? Not that this is anything more than a hypothetical situation though.

Such a terribly vague answer.
I've already expressed my lynching order.

[Vi]

On second thought, scratch my previous order due to xofelf avoiding this game.

[Chaco]

So xofelf is now your top? Lynching order from you going: Xofelf > Snow > Jebus

[Vi]

I'm not so organized. But, it couldn't hurt too much to do this :arrow:

Unvote: Snow_Bunny
Vote: xofelf

(L-4)

[MonkeyMan576]

The SB/MM dispute is going nowhere, xofelf could be a good compromise.

Unvote:
Vote: Xofelf

[Snow_Bunny]

I'm a bit behind, will catch up this evening.

I'm sure I know why you are behind as well. Doing a little licentious night work? It's kinda expected of a whore like you

[Chaco]

Have you been behind the entire game then? Because not much has been said since your last post, and ISTR, it was current.

[forbiddanlight]

The Eleventh "Fun Attacks" Vote Count

"MY-WAIFU-IS-THE-GREATEST-IN-THE-UNIVERSE-SWINGUU"

Mod Note: I don't really have anything important to say right now. Just read this anyway.

1. Seraphim (1)

: Cobalt

2. Jebus (0)

3. Yosarian2 (1)

: Jahudo

4. Vi (1)

: Chaco

5. xofelf (3)

: Yosarian2, MonkeyMan576, Vi

7. Snow_Bunny (0)

8. MonkeyMan576 (1)

: Snow_Bunny

9. Cobalt (0)

10. Chaco (0)

11. Jahudo (0)

Not Voting (3): Jebus, xofelf, Seraphim

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch
Deadline is in 8 days at 1 PM EST, Sunday, November 15th

[xofelf]

Heaven forbid I get sick. Oh no that's not allowed. I have to be here and actually post like i promised i would. Yeah well, i didn't plan on sleeping most of my life away because i felt like shit lately. Thank you for your understanding because obviously i'm lurker-scum who is avoiding this game.

Now that i've finished ranting, it's time to read and do what i said i would before i got sick.

Thank you for your time.

Um...hmm...I really want to insult you but I mean...being sick is kinna bad and I'd feel a little bad if I insulted you after that so...

This post, I'll give you a bye

[Vi]

Heaven forbid I get sick. Oh no that's not allowed. I have to be here and actually post like i promised i would. Yeah well, i didn't plan on sleeping most of my life away because i felt like shit lately. Thank you for your understanding because obviously i'm lurker-scum who is avoiding this game.

Now that i've finished ranting, it's time to read and do what i said i would before i got sick.

Thank you for your time.

If you'll excuse the social

faux pas

, this only works if you post something afterward. ...that

isn't

in GD.

[MonkeyMan576]

Yeah, there's a difference between a valid excuse(being sick) and showing no interest in playing. The fact that you haven't asked for a replacement points to scum in my book.

[forbiddanlight]

Official Mod Ruling: Vi's new avatar is fucking amazing. Please carry on.

[Chaco]

Mod: You should totally steal Tar's new 15c rule.

I don't feel like doing the research to figure out what players do what