Mini 870: Melee mafia. (Mod Abandoned)


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Post Post #250 (ISO) » Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:15 pm

Post by Kirbyoshi »

Kast wrote:Tajo doesn't dislike your vote because it's weak. He thinks it is insincere.
I remember where he said we could be scumbuddies. I missed the part where he flat out said my vote was insincere.
Kast wrote:You are also potentially buddying with me, and potentially using me to to validate your position. You could be setting up to excuse any negative results by blaming me.
You have my word that if Tony flips scum, none of the blame will go to you.
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Post Post #251 (ISO) » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:34 pm

Post by Kast »

Try writing.
Inconsistent with your previous claim that I write too much.

Also, you still haven't answered my questions.
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Post Post #252 (ISO) » Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:42 pm

Post by TonyMontana »

But consistant with my previous claim that you blow alot of smoke.

I'm sure there's alot of your million questions i haven't answered. You seem to think if you ask enough questions, you can base a case of having asked the questions.
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Post Post #253 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:20 am

Post by Kirbyoshi »

Tony, not answering questions is scummy. There's no way around that, and no way you can make not answering questions not scummy. At least, not the ones you have been asked.

I think in this game, scum are the root of confusion, because, to me, this game has been kind of confusing so far, even in the part I'm familiar with.
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Post Post #254 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:33 am

Post by chamber »

Kirbyoshi wrote: I think in this game, scum are the root of confusion, because, to me, this game has been kind of confusing so far, even in the part I'm familiar with.
Elaborate.
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Post Post #255 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:39 am

Post by Nuwen »

I haven't been sleeping well lately, making things that require concentration fall by the wayside. Sorry!

I skimmed a bit and am alarmed to see so many players ready to use their damage mechanics outside the confines of consensus. I want everyone to think about the following:

1. How good of a scumhunter are you? No, really. Attach a percent to your abilities - is it any higher than random?
2. What kinds of damage patterns are scum likely to take? How would they differ from vig-style town patterns?

Players often have an over-inflated perception of their scumhunting skills. I'm not being insulting; enough mistakes made could cost the town the game. Damage, unlike votes and other minor misfires, is not reversible.

Use the voting system. Wagon patterns are more important and will link players together more reliably than damage.

Backreading more carefully now.
So high, so low, so many things to know.
aim:gochat?roomname=ScumChat&Exchange=5
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Post Post #256 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:41 am

Post by Kirbyoshi »

I dunno; I've just been confused this game about what people's positions are; whether they are scum or town; which questions they are willing to answer, and which they aren't; what they mean by how they answer the questions; etc. Even when we backed off of mechanics discussion a bit, it didn't help a whole lot with my level of confusion.

And just in case you didn't make the connection, I think Tony is causing some of the confusion. Not answering some questions, not saying which questions he is answering when multiple ones are presented to him, flip-flopping on his opinions, and nitpicking over semantics. He's the best lynch I can find atm.
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Post Post #257 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:17 am

Post by chamber »

@nuwen. If I have a strong read on someone its right more often than random. I've agreed to go along with majority in the case of weak/null reads so they don't really matter.

Vote KY
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Post Post #258 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:26 am

Post by Kast »

But consistant with my previous claim that you blow alot of smoke.
To be clear, you are admitting that you contradicted yourself to avoid giving a straight answer to a straight question.
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Post Post #259 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:41 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

I'm considering instituting a limit on how quickly actions must be completed before they are forfeit. The melee session is not supposed to function in this manner, and it was a failure in the way the rules were written that it does so. I'm thinking about a day limit per persons action before its forfeit.

I am welcome to opinions on this subject via pm.
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Post Post #260 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:48 am

Post by Kirbyoshi »

@Kast: That's not what he said at all. That's not even worthy of being called a strawman; you're hearing what you want to hear, regardless of whether he said it or not. I have no idea how that could even be implied by what he said.
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Post Post #261 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:01 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Thestatusquo wrote:I'm considering instituting a limit on how quickly actions must be completed before they are forfeit. The melee session is not supposed to function in this manner, and it was a failure in the way the rules were written that it does so. I'm thinking about a day limit per persons action before its forfeit.

I am welcome to opinions on this subject via pm.
Ok. Looks like we're going to have a time limit after all.

Right now, looks like the main suspect is Kirby, with 4 votes. When we get a time limit from the mod, I do intend to make my attack before it runs out, and I do intend to be largely guided by the votes of the town. Right now, I believe Kirby has more votes then anyone; if it is still that way when the time limit runs out, or if he gets a majority of votes on him before that, I will attack him. Consider this fair warning.

Also, I'd like to see everyone place a vote before we start attacking. Anyone who dosn't will move up on my personal suspicions list.

Rough Vote Count (if someone else wants to check my work, I'd appricate it):

Kirby (4): Charter, populartajo, Snow Bunny, Yosarian2
Tony (1): Kirby
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #262 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:06 pm

Post by Kast »

@Yosarian2-
I'm voting TM.
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Post Post #263 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:19 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Ah, thanks Kast, I thought someone else was voting TM and I couldn't remember who.

Kirby (4): Charter, populartajo, Snow Bunny, Yosarian2
Tony (2): Kirby, Kast
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #264 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:23 pm

Post by Kast »

@KY-
-I never said anything about MC attacking himself.
Yosarian2 wrote:I want everyone to say, right now, exactly who they would most want to see lynched today,
Kast wrote:@Yosarian2-
My vote is on TM. I would like to see his flip.
TM wrote:Case of the year! Open and shut! Take me to the gallows right away.
TM either has serious reading comprehension problems or is intentionally misrepresenting my post.
Kast wrote:Try reading.
TonyMontana wrote:Try writing.
Kast wrote:Inconsistent with your previous claim that I write too much.
TM wrote:But consistant with my previous claim that you blow alot of smoke.
But I suppose I should amend my statement.
"To be clear, you are admitting that you contradicted yourself. Looks like you contradicted yourself to avoid explaining why you misrepresented my post."

That's a scummy defense tactic. It's typical of your play so far.
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Post Post #265 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:30 pm

Post by Kirbyoshi »

@Kast: But I guess Tony does have a point. Alot of what you say is unnecessary. If you state your questions more succinctly, he will have no excuse for not answering them.
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Post Post #266 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:33 pm

Post by populartajo »

My vote is staying on KirbyYoshi and not moving from there. Also this:
Yos wrote:Also, I'd like to see everyone place a vote before we start attacking. Anyone who doesn't will move up on my personal suspicions list.
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Post Post #267 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:38 pm

Post by Kast »

@KY-
I try to be thorough. I probably shouldn't humor him and just call him out directly each time he avoids stuff instead of giving him the benefit of the doubt and following his tangents.

Whatever. I've lost a lot of hope for this town. With barely half of us are posting, a third of us are happy to let scum do as they please, nobody cares at all about objective scumtells and anti-town evasive behavior, and a sudden rule change that cuts to our discussion time; if scum win this one, it's not gonna be on their merits.
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Post Post #268 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:40 pm

Post by Kirbyoshi »

And why shouldn't you call him out directly? Imo, that's the town thing to do.
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Post Post #269 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:41 pm

Post by populartajo »

Kast, what do you think of Yoshi?

Also what objective scumtells are you talking about?
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Post Post #270 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:47 pm

Post by Yosarian2 »

Kast wrote:With barely half of us are posting,
It's not nearly that bad, Kast. SpyreX asked to be replaced out. Other then them, there aren't many lurkers at all; I'd call Grover a lurker even though he posted yesterday because he hasn't said much yet, but I can't think of any other people I'd really consider lurkers.
a third of us are happy to let scum do as they please,
Huh?
nobody cares at all about objective scumtells and anti-town evasive behavior
What "objective scum tells" and "anti-town behavior" do you mean?
, and a sudden rule change that cuts to our discussion time
Eh, honestly, some kind of deadline on our discussion time might be for the best. Games without deadlines on this site sometimes drag and stall, to the point where it's very harmful to the town.
I want us to win just for Yos' inevitable rant alone. -CrashTextDummie
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Post Post #271 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:19 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

Stark replaces Spyrex.
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Post Post #272 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:32 pm

Post by Thestatusquo »

and I have decided to institute, as an addendum to the rules, a deadline of 1 day from the end of the previous persons action for the next persons action to be made. Weekends will combine to count for 1 day.
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Post Post #273 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:46 pm

Post by stark »

Hey all, happy to replace.

Some thoughts from my readthrough:

Thanks to Kast, this was the single most mindnumbing readthrough I have ever done in my life. Every time I saw his avatar, my eyes glazed over.

Regarding lynch enforcment, I think the solution is quite easy.

I think that as the town, we need simply some volunteers to form an enforcement squad. During the discussion phase, we can all vote as normal. Once we've arrived at a decision, the lynchee will be announced, and the enforcement squad will take care of them. Any other players are free to join in per their choice, but the enforcement squad must be willing to act on the will of the group regardless.

With that, I'm happy to be a part of the enforcement squad.

Possible lynch targets:

Kirbyoshi- He seems to be the apathetic slider wagon. If someone
OTHER THAN KAST
could explain why Kirbyoshi is scummy, I would be most obliged

Kast- I would be willing to lynch Kast for humanitarian reasons.
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Post Post #274 (ISO) » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:27 pm

Post by Kast »

@TM Case-
(1) Claimed that players voting for their suspects was infeasible (Q1). Later changed this to claim voting should be done. Much later claimed that his initial statement meant players should not be prohibited from rogue behavior (Q4). Two objective direct contradictions.
(2) Was in favor of actions being in thread. Change his position to non-attack actions should be okay to PM. Objective indirect contradiction.

Both points have subjective supporting points.
-First post was changed in response to a CC disagreeing with his post (placing him in a clear minority).
-Second post was changed after town consensus was to not punish people for sending actions by PM.
-Repeatedly avoided or refused to clarify.
-Repeatedly uses ad hom, out-of-context quotes, and blatant misrepresentations to avoid questions and sidetrack discussion.
-He is avoiding ruffling feathers as much as possible.
-When I didn't let him get away with this, he started being a jerk in response.

@Yosarian2-
-To be clear, I prefer a deadline. What I dislike is town getting screwed by sudden rule change. For fairness, we should get an extension of Discussion Phase 1. This lets players who put off posting under the old ruleset a chance to post final thoughts before the first combat.

It's not like we hid the idea of waiting and suddenly sprung it on TSQ.

@Stark-
Welcome.

@Mod-

-I won't be around for the weekend.

Conditional orders:
-I want to attack the first player to reach a majority of votes.
-If there is no majority of votes, then the first player to reach a plurality of votes.
-I will not attack myself.
-If I am either the majority or the plurality, I will attack TM.

If you won't take conditional orders:
-Take no action.

@All-
-I prefer if everyone attacks the MC. We want to prevent MC from attacking as well as any rogues.

Something we haven't discussed:
-MC may want to claim. All roles are equally likely to be scum or town and we won't see any counterclaims. However, losing some PRs may have a worse effect on town than losing others.

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