Mini 878: Nouns Mafia - Da game is ovah!

[SensFan]

Confirm!

[SensFan]

By the way, I like the irony that the words "hidden text" are coloured so as to stand out from the rest of the words, and catch the eye.

[SensFan]

Vote: Seol

, because I've wanted to do that for just about ever.

[SensFan]

I deny Elvis's accusation.

Am I close?

scumteam=sensfan, mathcam, macavitylock

Confirm or deny?

Confirm.

[SensFan]

Unvote, Vote: Boxman

[SensFan]

SC, why are you assuming my vote isn't serious?

[SensFan]

The only problem I have with sensfan voting boxman is that it makes the rival bandwagon as big as his own, which switched momentum to someone else.

First of all, I didn't know the count that well. I know I can't prove it, but the point is moot anyways, for the following reason: what else would you expect me to do? Not vote someone early in the game because I have more votes than them?

[SensFan]

However, don't try to tell me you didn't know what you were doing. There was a vote count at the top of the page. I assume you can count to three seeing as all the boxman votes were on the same page.

I knew there weren't 6 votes on Boxman, since I hadn't seen that many, so I voted without even checking the count.

[SensFan]

I'm not hiding behind anything, or anyone.

If I see fit to explain the vote, I will. It should be pretty obvious, though.

[SensFan]

^Just for the record, the fact that there were a limited number of roles made it far worse of an idea to discuss it early on.

On-topic, I find it somewhat wierd how quickly small wagons are moving about through the Town. I'm not sure what it means, but its odd.

[SensFan]

On-topic, I find it somewhat wierd how quickly small wagons are moving about through the Town. I'm not sure what it means, but its odd.

There's been two wagons of three votes. What is odd about that?

It just seems like there's a whole lot of people willing to jump on the 'new' wagon.

There were votes on me, then Boxman, then when you pressure me, a few people vote/FoS you.

I've never seen wagons change so quickly, even this early.

[SensFan]

Neto:

*how do you suggest we get 'stronger' tells, if we sit around without putting more than 2 votes on anyone?
*how can you claim 2 votes is "enough for pressure", when it obviously isn't, since he hasn't responded yet?
*why do you keep trying to imply that the votes on Box are for pressure, when I don't think any of us voting him have said anything like that?

[SensFan]

4) Why do you keep assuming that anyone wants to lynch someone right now?
5) Why is 3 votes too many? It's less than halfway to a lynch.
6) What do you feel is gained or lost by me not explaining my reasoning for voting him?

[SensFan]

See, Netopalis? This is how we get 'stronger' tells.

Unvote, Vote: Netopalis

I'm still looking at you, Boxman, and still expect you to come back and contribute, or this vote heads back your way.

[SensFan]

You think that purposefully ignoring a game because people pressure you, until you're prodded, is acceptable behaviour?

[SensFan]

IMO the neto wagon is a reaction to him wanting the boxman wagon to slow. So I would only expect you to wagon neto if you like the boxman wagon a lot and don't want to see it slowed.

I disagree.

I still want Boxman to get back here, and to contribute. But regardless of his alignment, or my thoughts toward it, Neto's reaction to the wagon is way scummy.

[SensFan]

What the hell are you talking about, Neto?

How can you possibly claim I'm going with the flow, or trying to be subtle, when I've been one of the most outspoken people so far?

I'm much more happy with my vote on Neto now, after his post contains some nice OMGUS, and in his top3 scummiest people is Boxman, yet he wants no more than 2 votes on him.

[SensFan]

He's one of the only people you call 'suspicious', where he is on your list isn't the end of the world.

Also, I love how Seol gets a free pass on your list, and I get burried, simply because you claim he backs his opinions up with reasoning, and I don't. That's laughable both because witholding reasoning isn't scummy, and I'm not doing it that much.

We got a scumbag here, folks.

[SensFan]

Withholding reasoning directly hurts the town. If all players withhold reasoning, the game cannot progress. Day 1 is primarily about information, and you are withholding information.

I happen to disagree completely, but that's largely a tangent to this discussion.

I've been very outspoken in my vote against you, and going after you for several reasons. How can you claim your vote against me is anything other than OMGUS, since I've clearly been giving reasons?

This is especially bad, since you also claim I have been 'going with the flow'. Didn't you claim my vote was the one that turned the Boxman wagon from 'harmless' to 'too big'? Between that and going after you, all in 7 pages, how can you claim I've been trying to slide by?

[SensFan]

While I'm not about to call Boxman a liar, since I've also forgotten about games that didn't make it to my WT, I think its a stretch at best to assume he's telling the truth to the point that you take his excuse as a towntell and unvote him, cam.

Anything in particular you want me to address, re: that vote on me?

[SensFan]

I find some of sensfan's arguments bad. The OMGUS thing is wrong, since neto was voting him in the first game post after confirms. Sort of hard to argue that's OMGUS!

Are you trying to be funny, or was this actually serious?

[SensFan]

First of all, your claim about that means absolutely nothing, given I'm accusing you of OMGUS.
Second of all, even if I believed you weren't lying about that, it still wouldn't confirm that you weren't OMGUSing; it can be subconscious.
Thirdly, she.

[SensFan]

Elvis, I think you're looking too much into the literal definition of OMGUS, rather than the 'spirit of the term', if you will. He placed a random vote on me for my avatar, and only when I pressured him did he start suspecting me.

[SensFan]

Then what is the value of such a vote, Iec?

Highly scummy reactions like yours.

You can also stop trying to get me to explain that Boxman vote. I will not be doing it in this game, period. We are well past the time when explaining it would help anything.

[SensFan]

Elvis, I think you're looking too much into the literal definition of OMGUS, rather than the 'spirit of the term', if you will. He placed a random vote on me for my avatar, and only when I pressured him did he start suspecting me.

You could be right. I have a hard time knowing who neto really suspected until his analysis post, so I don't really know when he started suspecting you. Do you think there is a definite turning point where he started suspecting you as a result of you suspecting him? I'd like to know where you thought his language changed or whatever you can point to.

I'm trying not to tunnel on you, but I realize I may be doing that. So I'm open to discussion.

He doesn't really mention suspecting me at all until after my series of questions towards him, which turned into suspicions.

As for tunnelling on me, while I don't think you're at that point yet, it's worth noting that in the only game I remember playing with you (Twilight Mafia, which you replaced in to), I seem to recall you being all over me for the entirety of my time in that game, as well. There may be a playstyle clash going on here, or something.

[SensFan]

To add to the first part, he's also suspecting me for a ridiculous reason. I'm not explaining a fairly early vote on the first real wagon. Oh no, how could I possibly do anything so scummy?

That, and he's lying. He claims I said my vote was not intended to lynch Boxman nor was it intended for pressure. I don't believe I've ever said either.

[SensFan]

Re: Twilight (summing this up in one post, to avoid derailing this thread)

I honestly remember playing that just as I would play as Town, since I strongly feel that zwets should be lynched on-sight. And I'm sorry, elvis, if you resent me replacing out. I don't quite have time to reread Day 1 of that game, but from what I recall, I was being attacked fairly severely on a personal level by more than one player.

As far as your view on my playstyle, you're right that it has changed a lot since those early Newb games, I just looked up the one in question, and it was 18 months or so ago. I have found that being more aggressive serves me better in my scumhunting, which may partly be a by-product of the fact I've been in several games where no one really moved the game along. I was more confrontational in that game than I am in most (again, zwets), but I am certainly more aggressive than I once was. I don't try to be confrontational, really, and don't think I have been in this game.

Also, in going over games until I found the Newb game you referenced, I came across Adel's Hydra-Deep-South-etc games. If memory serves, we got along alright in that game (I was the only one posting for Apples).

[SensFan]

I was just looking back at the game and like I think asked him for a scum list and he flat out told me he would never do it and nobody else should either. Basically I should suck it.

Scumlists are anti-Town, and help Scum far more than they help Town.
Town can get similar information from 'Who do you suspect and why?', whereas scumlists give Scum the information of which players the majority of the Town don't suspect.

[SensFan]

Let us assume I'm a Cop, neto.

If I am forced to make a list, I am forced to either place any Innocents I have on my Town section, or risk really screwing with people's attempts to figure out my targets if I die before I claim.

If everyone has Joey on their Town list, it tells the Scum Joey's probably not lynchable, something that is invaluable to them. If we just post who we find suspicious, there's probably 4-6 people that don't appear on anybody's list, and they could all potentially be lynchable.

[SensFan]

You missed the point completely. I was talking about why Town lists are, in my opinion, more useful to Scum than Town, and why I will never ever ever make one.

[SensFan]

What if I think Neto is scummy regardless of Boxman's alignment?

[SensFan]

Well, I think you'd have to prove why slowing a random bandwagon is scummy, honestly.

To be blunt, I wasn't asking you.

When I'm talking about stuff you've done that's scummy to other people, it's not helpful for you to just randomly spam 'Trust me, it wasn't OMGUS!' or 'Slowing the wagon isn't scummy!'.

You could always try scumhunting, though, that'd be a nice change.

[SensFan]

You keep claiming my votes have been illogic, when I've explained them both quite clearly. And your only response to my points against you is "NUH UH"

I find it ironic you claim I am tunneling, when you're yelling at me that I voted Boxman, then jumped to you. Also, I'm not tunelling, I think I found Scum. There's a big difference. Stop OMGUSing.

And continuing to call the Bocman wagon random is denial at best, and very scummy at worst. Just because you think we should sit around and talk about the weather until the Scum feel guilty enough to confess doesn't mean everyone thinks that way.

[SensFan]

Wow. Way to take that quote

completely

out of context. Like, you literally chopped off the part before it that shows why the vote was useful.

Then what is the value of such a vote, Iec?

Highly scummy reactions like yours.

You can also stop trying to get me to explain that Boxman vote. I will not be doing it in this game, period. We are well past the time when explaining it would help anything.

[SensFan]

Except for, you know, the fact that the first part explains the use behind the vote.

[SensFan]

And as for my illogical thing on Sens, I guess it was really just a reaction to his stated policy of not giving reasoning/posting his thoughts.

I never said I won't be explaining anything I do, or anything even close to that.

Also, your primary goal shouldn't be not looking scummy, that's Scum's job. Work on finding Scum, don't worry about if you look good or bad while doing it.

[SensFan]

Ah, but the whole point of scumhunting is looking for the people whose primary goal is survival, rather than caring about scumhunting.

[SensFan]

And honestly, if you focus on scumhunting and don't worry too much about your image, you'll look less scummy to people.

Other than me (since you've done it in part already), make a case on someone you think is likely Scum, or should be looked at more closely.

Vote Count 11 (Two hours too late for 11/11)

Netopalis:

4 (Konowa, SensFan, Iecerint, Boxman)

Boxman:

4 (mathcam, elvis_knits, Seol, StrangerCoug)

Sens Fan:

1 (Netopalis)

Not Voting:

(MacavityLock, Parhelic, Percy)

Deadline:

Friday November 27th, 12:00 PM EST

[SensFan]

I've never been scum on this site, and I always try to be hyper-conscious of how I represent myself.

In all honesty, don't. If you try to look Town, it will come off as fake, because you are (in a sense) faking it.

If people think you're genuinely hunting Scum, they'll look elsewhere, because it means you're Town. Focus on that.

Town priorities, in order:
*Lynch Scum
*Don't get lynched

Scum priorities:
*Don't get lynched
*The rest

[SensFan]

SensFan is looking quite suspicious, weak scumread.

Bullshit.
Literally the only time anything I do is mentioned is when you quote me for saying I find Neto suspicious, and then claim I haven't given reasons...

[SensFan]

Literally the only time anything I do is mentioned is when you quote me for saying I find Neto suspicious, and then claim I haven't given reasons...

Firstly, that is flatly untrue. Try reading again.

The only other times my name is mentioned:
*When you say that I kept pressuring Boxman
*When you use my psot as a landmark to say that Ice looks bad

[SensFan]

Hammertime.