FL: Do you feel that Chaco's and Konowa's...questionable posts in support of a DB lynch are a misunderstanding/failure to understand the arguments for the wagon, or do you find them to be opportunistic scum?
This is a good question.
I'm not entirely sure to be honest.
I hate to say it but I'd rather see DB flip and then decide whether those two are opportunistic.
Chaco IS more likely to be scum due to both claim and overall unhelpfulness
Also, unfortunately, a lot of this game seems to hinge on reads on Saber/ABR. His lynch, while not necessarily scummy, would give us a ton of information. On the other hand, it's lynching a player who's actually done very well today. I'd like everybody to comment on this idea, as I think that the results would be rather interesting.
Honestly, DB would be a better lynch. Slightly less information, but more of a read on ABR and saber, which will help with some of the information we'd get from his lynch.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
Chaco IS more likely to be scum due to both claim and overall unhelpfulness
...
Honestly, DB would be a better lynch. Slightly less information, but more of a read on ABR and saber, which will help with some of the information we'd get from his lynch.
I'd like to ask you about these two parts, specifically. Firstly, how do you get that his claim makes him scummy, considering that it was posted earlier that, generally, it is common for there to be two pro-town neighbors in a game?
Second, I'm not sure I entirely follow your second statement. I think that you're saying that we would get less info from a DB lynch, but it would make a subsequent lynch of ABR better from an information perspective? I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of making two lynches for info reasons considering that we have no idea how many more lynches we have....
I'd like to ask you about these two parts, specifically. Firstly, how do you get that his claim makes him scummy, considering that it was posted earlier that, generally, it is common for there to be two pro-town neighbors in a game?
I've actually not seen it that often. It's entirely possible, but not necessarily true. I'm not sure which way Kairyuu would go.
Second, I'm not sure I entirely follow your second statement. I think that you're saying that we would get less info from a DB lynch, but it would make a subsequent lynch of ABR better from an information perspective? I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of making two lynches for info reasons considering that we have no idea how many more lynches we have....
What I'm saying is that if we lynch DB, his alignment will be more telling on sABeR's. If DB is scum, then lynching sABeR is elementary (ew...setting up lynches :S), but if DB is town, sABeR is more likely to be town. I don't want to lynch sABeR for information at all. I want to lynch DB for both information and hopefully catching scum.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
Well, I realize that it does put me in hot water if DB does flip scum. That being said, I'd hope that my posts stand up on their own.
Well, upon what I've read I feel you are more attacking the lack of reasoning from Chaco and the like rather than defending DB. But I'd have to reread that if DB flipped scum.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
I don't see how I'm bring opporunistic in any light, Ill admit unhelpfulness however I do not see the latter. I don't have the, per se, ability to effectively post on my reads. I'm gutting Doom hard, along with semi-incriminating actions. The humor, more or less was just detrimental that slowly added up. The weak backing with easy back outs, really bothers me. I've seen it one to many times to feel okay about it.
Okay now, Doom has had almost everyone on him. However, he's pushing hardest on SSK and I. At this time, since Im on my phone, Im not sure how much SSK has said on him. So at this point, Ill ignore that. I, have been pushing hard on Doom. Net has attacked me for doing so, and it does make sense. That's why I retract my previous, impulsive statement of if DB was scum, Net would be too.
Forbs, how is my claim incriminating? Pro-town neighbors are far more common then let on, to my experience, masonries are more commonly involving varying alignments. So I do not see where you are getting that from. Support it if you would, because I do believe that is a rare occurrance.
Net, why are you so opposed to a Doom lynch? Is he not at all scummy to you? If not, why?
I'll try to more effectively communicate my thoughts now on.
Forbs, how is my claim incriminating? Pro-town neighbors are far more common then let on, to my experience, masonries are more commonly involving varying alignments. So I do not see where you are getting that from. Support it if you would, because I do believe that is a rare occurrance.
In my experience masons are both town and neighbors mean one is scum. There has been maybe one subversion in the few times I've played with neighbors.
Hell, I stuck an SK in a three person neighbor group before.
"Never have I seen anybody glorify their own lynch."
-StrangerCoug
TTGL Mafia is over. Going to mod [b]Umineko No [color=red]Na[/color]ku Koro Ni[/b] Mafia. Pre-/ins, as always, are accepted.
I was opposed to a DB lynch because I felt that it was driven by hype more than by logic and reasoning. Up until 8 pages ago, I hadn't really seen anybody post *why* they felt that DB was scummy. I like to have reasons behind my lynches, so I called for some reasoning....I didn't get any...I waited 2 pages...then I got frustrated. To me, it looked as if there were players who were actively attempting to lynch DB for no apparent reason - probably so that they can just survive another day and provide as little info as possible. I mean, what else am I supposed to expect when I see arguments that amount to, in their entirety, "Vote DB - he's obviously scummy!"
This isn't to say that he's ENTIRELY unscummy in my eyes. He hasn't been the best player or the most pro-town. However, he has done a lot better than at least 3 other players in the game that come to mind off the top of my head. That's why I spent 6 pages defending him - because I was scared of us going down the wrong path.
FL's post makes sense, though - with the caveats that I posted in response to it. It only holds up if we accept as fact that Saber/ABR is scum - a fact which has not been proven. Therefore, while I don't necessarily think he's scum or even the best play, I would be willing to accept a DB lynch today. It will certainly give us information, although I am rather scared about the state of the town if we're wrong. We have 3 players who are seemingly incapable of intelligent and analytical posting, and at least 2 of them will likely survive to the next day. If we consider the fact that there are probably still 2 scum and that the unaccounted for kill last night could be from an SK, we could very well be in lylo tomorrow. Therefore, a valid consideration must be who will prove to be a liability during the endgame. This is, I feel, another point in favor of keeping DB around....and for lynching someone like SSK who is both scummy AND completely, unabashedly, wholly and unapologetically useless.
My posts are best read in the calm, reassuring voice of Morgan Freeman. I don't sound anything like him, but they sound best that way.
Temporarily retiring following the end of my current obligations.
Chaco wrote:The humor, more or less was just detrimental that slowly added up.
You say you reread me in iso but you missed one important detail that contradicts with what you're saying here. You say my humor "adds up" yet you miss the fact that
I only made one joke post
My 9th post. Now, explain two things to me.
1-If you read me in iso than you would know that I have only made one joke post. You also state it again in post 115 where you say "He joked like crazy d1" How, if you have been reading me in iso, missed this detail?
2-How is joking detrimental to the town? You say it is but you don't explain how.
You are correct, SSK hasn't done anything. However, policy lynching SSK today would
not be in good light because, as you stated, the state of the town. Which is why I more so support a DB lynch. Out of everyone, to me, he is the scummiest. Also, to reiterate, his lynch supplies the wagon information, connections, and whatnot.
I also haven't seen Kanowa do much of anything, mainly post scrutinies. So SSK and he, are in similar light. At least in my opinion.
Now, back to Doom. Even with my "flimsy" reasoning, does it give you any change in thought about DB?
Forbs, here's some wifom to mull over; Would I have claimed if I was a scum neighbor?
Doom, you joked more than that. I consider the jokish buddying and and over use
of smilies, as joking. You were not taking it seriously. How is that a detriment? Well first of, you know the definition of detriment, correct? Well, it's presumably not helping at all and only being a nuisance. Which you were, along with Saber. Then clearly denied the fact that joking was unhelpful.
Chaco, your posts were honestly useful only as toilet paper for me. FL's post gave me reasons and it clearly outlined why a DB lynch is a good idea. I'm not 100% sold on it...but if it came down to it, I'd support it. I do want to make it clear here, though: in NO way did your posts make an iota of difference in my opinion. In fact...they pretty much confirmed my suspicion that the vast majority of people voting for DB really didn't know why they were doing it.
My posts are best read in the calm, reassuring voice of Morgan Freeman. I don't sound anything like him, but they sound best that way.
Temporarily retiring following the end of my current obligations.
Net, beyond being an ass, yes. He humped everyones leg at the beginning of the game. And honestly, yeah. With each more of your attempts to be "cute", it just makes me think you're being a dumb ass.
Precisely my point. In that case, why would you not see FL as potential scum?
Because FL wasn't being opportunistic. He had an honest belief and clear understanding of why he felt that DB was scum. You, on the other hand, appear to me to have jumped on what you considered to be an easy wagon, then got caught with your pants down.
Finally, my statements (attempts to be "cute, as you call them) are there to illustrate a point - the idiocy of your claims.
My posts are best read in the calm, reassuring voice of Morgan Freeman. I don't sound anything like him, but they sound best that way.
Temporarily retiring following the end of my current obligations.
I'm afraid that I don't quite see the logic, no. You don't know how else to put it because you're finding something where there is nothing.
I'm not sure exactly what you're asking here. You're asking what I would do if I was persuaded that DB was scum? Vote for him, of course. My defense was always contingent on the fact that I felt that the wagon was without merit. Without that contingency, I would be up for voting.
My posts are best read in the calm, reassuring voice of Morgan Freeman. I don't sound anything like him, but they sound best that way.
Temporarily retiring following the end of my current obligations.
Aye...you're making this incredibly difficult because you're tunneling so hard. What are FL's motives? Do you take motives into account when forming an opinion on someone? If so/not, why?
I asked for responses. FL provided. I really don't see an ulterior motive here. Are you implying one? If so, please state it clearly rather than dancing about the issue.
My posts are best read in the calm, reassuring voice of Morgan Freeman. I don't sound anything like him, but they sound best that way.
Temporarily retiring following the end of my current obligations.
